Paragraph 2:
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Yes, the InterNet is huge ... and relevant information can quickly be brought to bear ... just like a great big gun. Yep, sometimes the WebSites are bullshit ... and so is a 70 mm barrel leveled at my garage door (fictional example).
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Re: Boston Globe; Re: Officer Michael A. Cox
I condemn any attempt to 'cover up', 'alter information', and 'change
history' particularly when it affects human rights and dignity. Come
on, R/I/R ... a 'beating by accident' ? No one beats someone
unconscious by accident. No one is hospitalized for 6 months
accidentally from such a beating. No one ... police, street gangs, or
angry citizens (see Rollins, Wyoming) ... remain silent for over 4
years by accident.
'They' beat a cop by 'mistake' (Davids' words) ? An accidental beating (your words) ? 'They' shouldn't have been trying to beat anyone. The key process here is situational analysis and execution from situational awareness ... the key word should be 'subdue with necessary force' ... the actual result was 'overkill'.
In fact, in a paramilitary situation, wasting time beating a suspect jeopardizes the rest of the mission. In fact, in a police situation, wasting time beating a suspect jeopardizes the safety of other citizens in need. In fact, in the given situation, the original suspect was able to stop and leisurely watch the officers beat the officer. I'm amazed the original suspect was apprehended at all.
Paragraph 6:
EDPs: Call me an EDP, call me a nut, call me a whacko ... just don't call me into the Free Fire Zone.
My comment on your USE of the term EDP was simply gratuitous and not meant to be offensive. My comments on your APPLICATION of the term EDP to the victims of Steve's Web Page are ... plentiful.
Your claim that half the victims were EDPs was frivolous. My claim that 50 BLUE EDPs were involved was equally frivolous. Steve's claim that the BLUEs involved are murderers is NOT frivolous.
Paragraph 7:
My review of Reverend Williams did not come from any newspaper article.
In fact, it is accessible using 3 mouse clicks directly from Steve's
Web Page. The review I cited was provided by Human Rights Watch. It is
available and confirmable from many sources ... quickly ... thanks to
the InterNet. Would you like to see it in Spanish ?
Un assalto SWAT del 1994 all’indirizzo sbagliato causò la morte di Accelyne Williams, un vecchio ex-ministro di culto, settantacinquenne di Boston che venne assalito nel suo appartamento e ammanettato faccia a terra... ed è così che il suo cuore ha battuto per l’ultima volta.The date I supplied in my original citation was 25 March 1995. The correct date appears to be 24 March 1994 for Reverend Accelyne Williams. Someone is a lousy typist ... possibly me.
Click Here for the Human Rights Watch review ... or key in http://www.law.nyu.edu/mirskyc/uspohtml/uspo48.htm to your Browser.
Personally, I'm headed to the Law Library. I'm also gonna look up my
own case. I certainly wouldn't want to miss knowing what kind of
lowlife, pondscum, vicious criminal, dirtbag, vigilante that history
will record for me ... as stated before ... for the high crimes of
stealing my own car, trespassing on my own property, and breaking into
my own building ... with a key to a bullet proof Master Lock. It will
be interesting to see if I'm recorded as having stolen that key out of
my own pocket.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 11:11:12 (MST)
Continuing with my comments on "Citizen's Targets" statements----
You posted a couple of different URL's that speak about the police as being "warriors". The first URL that you refer to takes me to a web page for "amazon.com" where a book can be purchased that supposedly prepares a person for the police officer examination. I have never heard of this book, and I have never heard of this author. I used to be involved in recruiting new officers and dispatchers for my department, and I have attended numerous job fairs throughout the state of California. Not once have I ever seen this book or heard it mentioned. If you go to any college bookstore that offers classes on Administration of Justice, you will find a plethora of books for sale on the topic of preparing a person for the police officer exam. Just like any book, some are good and some are bad. I know nothing about this particular preparation book, but just based upon the sub-title of it, it is probably not a good book. The title itself is incorrect and is highly inappropriate for a person attempting to study for the entry-level police officer examination. Just to reiterate a previous comment that I made, just because something has been put in print by a corporation does not make it factual. Especially when it comes to books.
Your next URL is for the "Urban Warrior". I think you are misinterpreting what that web page is all about. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area so I am VERY familiar with the whole "Operation Urban Warrior" thing. Since you are not from this part of the country, I would not expect you to know this. "Operation Urban Warrior" was a military operation that was conducted, oh geez, I don't remember for sure, but maybe a year or two ago? Anyway, it was a highly technical, huge training event for the military and they just happen to chose this location to hold their training. They could have had it anywhere in the world I suppose, but they chose here. The military hired actors and actresses from the local colleges and schools to act out different parts. They had actors portraying "demonstrators", they had "victims" that had very realistic "injuries" that were done by professional makeup artists that work in television and movies, and just about every other kind of person or groups of person that would be encountered in an event such as this. Well, when the military announced that the training was going to be held here in the Bay Area, this is a very liberal location to live in which means we are known for having demonstrations, marches, protests, and all that stuff. This is what that web page is about that you posted. It was not a police training event---it was a military training event. However, I do know that the police were used for traffic control and crowd control because it was definitely needed---the event was HUGE. I also think that some of the Bay Area's SWAT teams may have taken advantage of the opportunity to have such a large area available for training. When else would they have this kind of training opportunity that was so huge with professional actors, makeup artists, and the whole 9 yards? But the police involvement was minor and not even connected to what the military was doing if I recall correctly. Now if you want to know why military was doing this in the Bay Area, I don't know. You'll have to ask them.
In response to your third URL called "Modern Warrior", I don't know what this is. I took a quick look at it and it looks like articles written by different people that talk about the police and other things. I'm not sure what it really has to do with anything here, other than the word "warrior" being in it. The Internet is a huge resource of all sorts of information---you pick the topic, and odds are, there will be a web page for it. That doesn't mean it's factual---it just means it's there.
You wrote: "I brought up 12 of Steve's 36+ kills. You claimed half of them were "probably EDPs". They weren't. I proved that. You changed the subject to B-1 Bob."
Well, like I said, 12 cases is too many for me to sit down and start researching. If you bring up one, I would be happy to look it up and comment on it. And then after that one, bring up another one, and so on. But I'm not going to comment on any of them if a huge pile is just thrown in my lap. I see that in one of your latest posts, you do bring up one specific incident. GREAT!!! That is what I have been waiting for!! I will find out about this case because as of right now at this moment, I know absolutely zero other than what you wrote. But I will dig around and see what I can find out, and then come back with comments on it. Now we're getting somewhere! As far as me claiming that half of them were probably EDP's, I don't remember saying that but that doesn't mean much. The medication I am on effects my short-term memory. And I definitely don't recall you "proving" that the alleged EDP's were not emotionally disturbed. How could you possibly PROVE that? You're not a doctor, are you? I am not a doctor either, however, I have received State certified training so that I know how to recognize an EDP. I have to know how to recognize one because police are given the authority to take an EDP into protective custody (not an arrest) and bring that person to an emergency psychiatric facility for evaluation by a doctor. And I also don't remember changing the topic to B-1 Bob directly from this. If I am remembering correctly, I brought Congressman Dornan up because of something that Alec had said and I then said who was speaking at a seminar that I attended recently. Please stop morphing things around to try and make them fit into your statements. Just stick with what is actually said.
You wrote: "You don't seem to have the time to research even ONE item ... except 'cop wronged by cop' (Officer Michael A. Cox); to which you barely make passing reference, let alone research."
A person (I think it was "David") posted something to this Guestbook that made reference to that case. I had never heard of it, and it did pique my interest because it's not often you hear of a cop beating up another cop. So I looked it up at the Boston Globe's web site and made some comments about what the newspaper article said. Geez--what is your problem? Why are you condeming every attempt that is made at communication and trying to resolve differences and problems by learning from each other? I'm honestly asking you the following question and I'm not being sarcastic: Would you prefer things to remain exactly as they are in regards to the way the police departments and law enforcement operate today? Or are you interested in getting to the bottom of things and finding out the truth so that people who are responsible for crimes and coverups can be held to answer for what they have done? Again, I am seriously asking you this question. Your answer will help me understand where you are coming from and what you would like to see happen. If you are happy witht the way things are now, then I will understand this better. Or if you are interested in making things better and exposing the truth and corruption, then I will also understand this better as well. I just would like to know which angle you are coming from.
You wrote: "For those who tuned in late, R/I/R likes to refer to emotionally disturbed persons as EDPs. I didn't provide a total of BLUE EDPs. However, in the 14 cases reviewed, the number exceeds 50 BLUE EDPs."
I did not know that me using the term EDP was offensive to you. If you would prefer that I use something else, I will be happy to. It's hard to get out of habits of "lingo" that I have been using all of my adult life. I have been trying very hard to keep my comments in plain English and not "talk cop" so that everybody reading this can understand me. And in your reference to "blue EDP's" I think I can safely assume that you are saying that in the 14 cases that you reviewed, there were over 50 police officers that were Emotionally Disturbed Persons. Can you back up this statement with some sort of facts? I find it hard to believe that such a large number of police officer EDP's were involved in such a small number of incidents. I would very much like to see your evidence on this statement.
Regarding the following person: 75 year old Rev. Accelyne Williams----I look forward to looking up some information on this case. You say that this incident was "easily predictable". Maybe it was---There is no way I can comment on it yet. I need to find out more about it first. At first glance when reading the article, my first reaction if I did not have law enforcement experience would be to say "Oh my God how awful. Those police officers were wrong and should be fired and sent to prison". However, I know the dirty little tricks that the news media plays on it's readers to hook them into a story. That's why I never take newspaper stories at face value. As I have said before, in 19 years of being exposed to all types of police, fire, and medical emergencies, I have been around the print media and the broadcast media A LOT. To this date, I have yet to find one single reporter who writes or talks about a story without getting some or all of the facts incorrect. Part of this is their fault because of their liberal bias and prejudice, but part of it is not their fault because of the deadlines that they are required to meet in order to get the story in on time. When pushed with dealines and hard-to-please producers, mistakes will be made because of the "rush rush rush" atmosphere that come with the territory of the news business. But that is just a general comment about the news media.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 04:36:41 (MST)
to R/I/R:
Rubbish ... yawn ... o, please, do continue with your next paramilitary tantrum ... I'm just all ears.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 02:21:25 (MST)
In response to "Citizen Target's" comments----- You wrote: "This is Steve's Web Site ... if you don't like it, why don't you leave ?" (this was in response to my comments to Citizen, letting him know that he can leave if he doesn't like it here)
Who said I didn't like it here? You're the one doing all the complaining.
You wrote: "Who made you the owner of Steve's Web Site ?"
What does this have to do with the price of eggs? What specifically have I said that gives any indication that I am the owner of this web site?
You wrote: ".....I like your long useless off topic posts. It adequately demonstrates your disdain for the lives of anyone who is not a police officer."
Off topic? I'm directly responding to your comments and it's off topic? Hmmm....interesting perspective you have. Let me see if I've got this straight---my "off topic posts" are what adequately demonstrate my disdain for the lives of anyone who is not a police officer? You have a very creative mind, indeed. Not once have I given even the slightest hint of having disdain for ANYONE'S life. I suppose my commendations for bravery, my "battle scars" (both mental and physical), and the 4 citizens who are walking around alive and healthy today as a direct result of my acts are what you are referring to? You have no clue what it is to put your life on the line for a stranger. You're speaking in an area where you are WAY off base sir.
You wrote: "No, that's your tactic ... vis a vis the Cato Institute, CNN, Joe Trimboli, et cetera ... blah blah blah."
Let me give you a little friendly advice--just because something appears in print from a corporation does not make it factual. CNN in particular is well known for spreading lies and propaganda. The Cato Institute on the other hand puts out some pretty sophisticated stuff and they have a lot of educated, intelligent people working for them. The only Cato report that I can recall you ever referring to is the one within the last day or so in which I said that I agree with almost the whole article. The exception to this was the paragraph that you posted from that article. Sometimes, even the best think tanks in the world can make mistakes. I am talking from personal experience of doing the actual tasks---she is talking in the abstract with no personal experience but rather coming from the point of view of a person sitting behind a desk putting many things together to reach a particular conclusion. Most of the time they are correct, but sometimes they are not. I don't know which source you are referring to with "blah blah blah" so I obviously can't comment on that.
You wrote: "What do you think this Guestbook is?"
Since you chose to not answer another question (again), and instead answer my question with the same question I asked you in the first place, I will certainly go ahead and answer this for you. Specifically what the creator of this web site has in mind, I don't know---I'm not a mind reader. But what do *I* think this Guestbook is? Well, I think it is an open, public forum to discuss many different issues related to law enforcement problems and solutions including corruption, criminal acts, coverups, police brutality, and any other topic that a visitor would like to comment on. Since there are no "official rules" posted anywhere and since the operator of this web site has NEVER come in and edited comments or told anybody to stop a particular discussion or topic, it's fairly "loose" as to what the topic of the day is. I'm still waiting for your answer (on this, and many other unanswered questions)
This covered your comments from one of your postings. I will now move onto your next comments in the next location on the Guestbook so it's easier to read.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 02:03:22 (MST)
75 year old Rev. Accelyne WilliamsNice Blue Dry Work.
25 Mar 1995 Dorchester, MA.pastor of a local Methodist church, dies of a heart attack after being chased, wrestled to the floor, and handcuffed by police who had burst into his apartment. Several officers are disciplined, and Police Commissioner Paul F. Evans changes the department's policies on warrants and informants after it's revealed that police raided the wrong apartment based on a dubious tip. The city settles with Williams' widow for $1 million in Apr 1996, the largest settlement of its kind in Boston history.
Well, S.W.A.T. me, the blue paramilitary were disciplined ... with what ? Harsh words ?
I have reviewed 13 non-EDP victims appearing on Steve's Web Page of COPS WHO KILL. I have reviewed, but not counted in my total, the 'cop who killed a cop'. Yes, there are EDPs on Steve's Web Page ... specifically, they are BLUE EDPs.
The Reverend Williams is not on Steve's Web Page. However, it was a tragic, presumptive, preemptive paramilitary operation. It failed and its failure was easily predictable.
For those who tuned in late, R/I/R likes to refer to emotionally
disturbed persons as EDPs. I didn't provide a total of BLUE EDPs.
However, in the 14 cases reviewed, the number exceeds 50 BLUE EDPs.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 00:53:47 (MST)
... and, of course, a post with some meat and potatoes ...
R/I/R writes:
"... (from Cato Institute) mindset of the police officer is a problem as it becomes shared with the military mindset". I don't see that happening at all. Police officers would not accept training that would teach them to act like a soldier.Yeah, sure, R/I/R, ...
Police Officer Examination Preparation Guide : The Path of the Warrior by Larry F., Ph.D. Jetmore
Urban Warrior
Modern Warrior
... yeah, right ... no blue soldiers out there ... ghosts maybe ?
If you bring up many different names and many different situations, I'm not going to respond to that---how can I?I brought up 12 of Steve's 36+ kills. You claimed half of them were "probably EDPs". They weren't. I proved that. You changed the subject to B-1 Bob.
I don't have the time to sit here and research every single item that you bring up---You don't seem to have the time to research even ONE item ... except 'cop wronged by cop' (Officer Michael A. Cox); to which you barely make passing reference, let alone research.
nobody does.The Cato Institute does ... and so do I.
The Human Rights Organiztion does ... and so do I.
Steve does ... and so do I.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 00:20:18 (MST)
R/I/R, for the record, offering to provide, via correspondence, legal evidence to act on is not "sitting around, doing nothing, and whining and complaining." Because, you can act on that evidence and I don't need to take any fancy trips for you to do so.
Then, you admit that there is corruption in government that needs to be taken care of! Incidentally, this is not the first time that you have admitted to corruption in the government. Of course, I had been saying just that from the beginning to which you responded with vicious attacks on my character! But, you have made no attempt to clean out any of the corruption that you admit exists in the government. Instead, you post long winded official sounding drivel that attempts to portray government officials, and especially judges, attorneys and police, as being "hardworking and honest people," which, of course, they are NOT! In other words, whenever you have felt that you can do so, you have contradicted your own admissions that there exists corruption in the government and, further, have attempted to cause people to forget that you had even made those admissions.
You speak with forked tongue and tell only as much of the truth that you feel is necessary at the moment to appease the people you are interacting with. Otherwise, you will spew out as much lies and confusing drivel as you can in order to further your agenda which is of course the fraudulent New World Order.
How can anyone come to any other conclusion except that you are a liar and a traitor? Quit whining about how I am nothing but a "whiner and a complainer." Quit subjecting Citizen Target and others to the same crap that you have subjected me to. If you really want to make a difference, then take the evidence that I have already given you and act on it NOW!
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
South Bay, CA USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 00:20:12 (MST)
R/I/R ... yet another useless post ... and my response ... for all intents and purposes, ditto. Nonetheless ... :
I will continue to answer questions with direct answersThat would be a refreshing change of pace.
If you feel it's "off topic" and you don't like it, then leave.This is Steve's Web Site ... if you don't like it, why don't you leave ? Hal Brown has a nice web site praising the 95 per centers, among thousands and thousands of other web sites. Give them a try, you'll love them ... and I'll bet they'll just love you right back.
Who made you the school teacher?Who made you the owner of Steve's Web Site ?
Also, I would be happy to discuss any specific topic that you bring up.Bullshit. You have demonstrated and continue to demonstrate adequately to the contrary.
I guess you don't like reading the facts.Really? And you would recognize a fact ... how ? From the testimony of 'all the officers present in the area' when Officer Michael A. Cox was 'beaten accidentally' who 'didn't see anything', are certain 'it didn't happen', et cetera ... blah blah blah ? Let me guess, if any one other than an officer was beaten, it wouldn't have been an accident ... which, of course, would include the suspect ?
What would you prefer--a one sentence response?No, quite frankly I like your long useless off topic posts. It adequately demonstrates your disdain for the lives of anyone who is not a police officer.
Then of course you would go after the author of those comments and say that they didn't back up anything with facts.No, that's your tactic ... vis a vis the Cato Institute, CNN, Joe Trimboli, et cetera ... blah blah blah.
What did you think this Guestbook was---a factual record to pass onto future generations?What do you think this Guestbook is ?
Citizen_Target <kissmyass@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 23:06:00 (MST)
Citizen----Again, you continue with your shananigans. I will leave it at this for now.....As I have done in the past, I will continue to answer questions with direct answers. I will also continue to post comments to items that are posted here. If you feel it's "off topic" and you don't like it, then leave. Who made you the school teacher? Also, I would be happy to discuss any specific topic that you bring up. If you bring up many different names and many different situations, I'm not going to respond to that---how can I? I don't have the time to sit here and research every single item that you bring up---nobody does. But if you have a particular incident that you feel was wrong, then go ahead and state the incident and state WHY you feel it was wrong. I can pull the same crap that you do but for the oppposite side of the argument. I can start naming names of people who could have legally had deadly force used against them by the police, but it was not done. I have personally witnessed several of these types of incidents myself. But it's ridiculous for me to just throw out names and say, "Well what about John Smith? Or Doug Jones? And what about Sam Johnson?" As I said, since you seem to be so hell bent on discussing certain things, then for crying out loud DISCUSS THEM! I would be more than happy to comment on the incident. Of course, I would have to look it up first to see what it is. But if that's the direction you would like the conversations to go, then go for it. There's nothing holding you back---except your ego. Your latest response is a prime example of that. You complain about how my comments go "on and on and on". Funny--I'm only responding to YOUR comments that go on and on and on...The difference is, I don't mind and you seem to. I guess you don't like reading the facts. What would you prefer--a one sentence response? Then of course you would go after the author of those comments and say that they didn't back up anything with facts. Sorry Citizen, but stating facts sometimes takes up more space than just a simple sentence or two shouting out an opinion. Speaking of opinions, several times now you have responded to my comments by saying "That's your opinion" or something similar. Why do you do this? Everything I write is my opinion. Everything you write is your opinion. That's what this Guestbook is---opinions. We all form our own opinions by combining many different sources----our life experiences that have taught us many things, our schooling, our training and experience, and published documents (or similar) that list factual information to back up our opinions. You continue mentioning so many different things as if it's some big discovery---like it's ONLY R/I/R's OPINION! Yeah, so what? It's my opinion---you are 100% on the mark. What did you think this Guestbook was---a factual record to pass onto future generations?
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 16:40:39 (MST)
R/I/R:
Addenda to my last post:
1. Re: the 2 LA robbers, armed and equipped to the teeth.
I think the LAPD response to that situation was excellent and well done. Too bad all situations aren't so clear cut as that one. Too bad situations like that one are, admittedly, becoming near commonplace.
2) The paramilitary response as per Donald Scott, Donald Carlson, and 75 year old Rev. Accelyne Williams are becoming too commonplace.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 13:01:37 (MST)
R/I/R writes ... on and on and on ... endlessly off topic:
Paragraph 1:
Unfortunately, you have chosen not to give specific answers to my questions.Patently false. You haven't read Steve's Web Page and continuously refuse to do that.
And that's okay--it's your decision.Yes, it's your decision. Do you bitch to Volkswagen because they don't make or praise Hondas ? Probably. Do you bitch to the Poor because they aren't doing enough for the Rich ? Probably.
That is an ongoing theme and problem I have had with you and a few others that frequent this GuestbookProbably because they read Steve's Web Page and know what the subject is.
---when it comes right down to it and you're asked specific questions that require specific responses, you give vague answers.Your opinion. The two specific questions you asked were previously answered. When it comes right down to it, you don't give a shit about Steve's Web Page or the 36 unarmed, mostly underage persons shot, mostly in the back, who were engaged in no criminal activity whatsoever. You just keep rambling on as though you were at Hal Browns' Police Stress Web Page. Maybe you should spend more time there. I think he could help you.
Why do you feel it is necessary to do this, instead of backing up your statements with reasons that address the specifics?I back up my statements with the Constitution, laws, court orders, case history, and blah blah blah. In your opinion, I'm a whacko and a nut. You are stuck on Paramilitary Blue City. I'm stuck on Democracy Red White and Blue.
If it isn't paramilitaristic, you just don't hear it. If it isn't democratic, I just don't hear it.
Admitedly, I sometimes have problems understanding your vagueness when responding to questions or comments ...That's understandable. You don't know what the subject is.
... and I have no choice but to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.Try reading Steve's Web Page.
Direct answers to direct questions would certainly be appreciated if you are willing to do that.You aren't willing to do that.
Paragraph 2:
On Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 17:00:01 (MST) R/I/R responds:
... then, you wrote: "He is a paramilitarist." Well, I guess I can't really argue with that.... and now you do argue with that.
Police organizations are paramilitary organizations.They're not supposed to be. You'd know this if you had studied or passed any of the courses you listed.
Thank you for pointing out the above facts.Yes, thank you for pointing out the above facts.
Paragraph 3:
I fail to see where the problem lies or what point is being madeYes, that's normal for you. Try reading Steve's Web Page.
Paragraph 4:
The image of the friendly police officer bending down to pet a boy's dogO, is that what happened to Randy Weavers' dog ? The agents were just petting it ? Thanks for clearing that up. Nice touch the agents shooting Randy Weavers' son, and later his wife, as well as the dog.
Los Angeles where 2 men were armed to the teeth with fully automatic weapons, body armor, and more destructive weapons then "Arnold"Yes, the two are dead now ... nice shooting. All that was required was a good rifle, a good sniper scope, and a steady trigger finger. The key phrase here should be 'situational awareness' There's a nice paramilitaristic term you should study.
This is a more dramatic example of why the police should continue to receive advanced training and tactics and have access to the latest high powered weapons---No, it isn't ... only in your mind. 45 shots to kill unarmed civilians, standard 'police' procedure, easily negates your idiotic statement. Situational awareness is useless if you can't do situational analysis and response. You can't.
Paragraph 5:
Bullshit.
R/I/Rs Summary:
Bullshit.
Side Number 1:
The scholars and field personnel of the Cato Institute are
knowledgable, intelligent, capable, and actively pursuing/implementing
solutions.
Side Number 2:
You and the rest of the Blue Morons.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 12:49:31 (MST)
Alec----My "agenda" is simple---to tell the truth.
In reference to your other comment, where you said to read your comments from October 22nd at 0315 hours---I did. Nowhere in your comments do you say anything about the written evidence being a "beginning" point. You are trying to infer that you were attempting to cooperate and I was not allowing it, which is again, another piece of false information that you continue to pump out on a regular basis. These are your exact words, and this certainly does not indicate the "beginning point" of anything: "Beyond that, he can give those other police officers my email
address...". In fact, you are quite clearly stating that "beyond that" is your ending point and you don't intend on going any further than that. Why is it so hard for you to stick with the truth? Why do you CONTINUE to twist things around to suit your needs? I don't understand, and I'm sure I never will. You are also neglecting one important thing in your attempt at defending yourself for not accepting the pre-paid invitation to speak at a training class of police officers----written "evidence" is NOT part of the schedule for this particular class. It was for guest speakers to do exactly that--SPEAK! It is not a session to hand out a bunch of paperwork from some guy that nobody knows anything about and has never heard of. As I have stated time and time again, your material is difficult, if not impossible, for people to read. Let's assume for a moment that every word that you speak is 100% truthful (I know, I'm stretching here!). Now, assuming that everything is truthful and accurate in your topics of "our so called government", the Federal Reserve stuff, etc, etc, etc---nobody would be able to understand what the documents are saying! Why is it so difficult for you to understand this simple principle?? It is written in such a confusing and complicated matter that people can't tell if it's true, false, or somewhere in between. They simply can't read the material. I have allowed a lot of "what if's" in this example, but unfortunately, none of them apply to the topic that you brought up---that of you declining the invitation to appear before a group of about 100 police officers in a training class to speak about police corruption and illegal activities that they perform. For the reasons that I just outlined, I again must say that you simply have refused to put your money where your mouth is. When it comes right down to it, you and others like you are afraid of the truth. You don't want to hear it, you don't want to see it, you don't want to be a part of it. You also don't want to be a part of the solution--you prefer remaining part of the problem. If you choose to remain part of the problem, then that's your loss and I won't bother you. However, if you choose to make outrageous claims and refuse to back up those claims with clear facts and additionally turn down offers as I have stated, then I do have a problem with that. It shows how much you believe in what you are saying---very little. It also demonstrates to me how much you enjoy being miserable. For some reason, you would rather complain and talk about all of these huge conspiracies and coverups and talk about the world coming to an end instead of trying to expose true corruption and wrongdoings---because they DO exist and they need to be brought to the attention of the general public.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 05:59:41 (MST)
For R/I/R's basic common sense education, offering to supply written evidence in place of taking an expensive (to someone) trip to appear in front of 100 people is just as good, especially considering that I didn't rule out the trip but just said that we needed to start with the written evidence first. Read my posting of October 22, 1999 at 03:15:55 (MDT).
But, of course, R/I/R deliberately defies basic common sense. Because, it doesn't suit his agenda. How sad!
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
South Bay, CA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 00:45:40 (MST)
hey everybody i havent talked to in a while... im sure you all heard about DESMOND CASEY...thank you again for the tribute...i myself right now am studing to be a cop so i affiliate my self with a couple of sherrifs deputies... well we use to go downtown san jose on santa clara and 1st and DESOMND CASEY would be there and we would talk...very nice and caring guy this also come to a shock about the sergent for the department of san jose died in a car accident after he came back from DESMOND CASEY'S memorial service....just to much... way to ironic i think....well i give my thanks to DESMOND CASEY and to all the other police officers that lost their lives protecing the innocent and the property.........i will always remember him flying over my area
FUTURE SAN JOSE POLICE OFFICER
san jose, ca USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 14:57:53 (MST)
Citizen Target----Unfortunately, you have chosen not to give specific answers to my questions. And that's okay--it's your decision. That is an ongoing theme and problem I have had with you and a few others that frequent this Guestbook---when it comes right down to it and you're asked specific questions that require specific responses, you give vague answers. Why do you feel it is necessary to do this, instead of backing up your statements with reasons that address the specifics? Admitedly, I sometimes have problems understanding your vagueness when responding to questions or comments and I have no choice but to say that I have no idea what you're talking about. Direct answers to direct questions would certainly be appreciated if you are willing to do that.
Additionally, you said that I have confirmed twice that I am a paramilitarist. Why do you continue to twist words, make up words, and flat out lie about what was and was not said? If you would stick to the facts and stick with the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid), a lot more could be accomplished a lot quicker. [I did not make up the "KISS" abbreviation just now, nor am I calling you "stupid". It's a saying that's been around for a long time. I don't know if you've ever heard it before so I am pointing this out so it's not taken the wrong way] My point is simply that I have NOT said that I am a "paramilitarist". What I have said is that police departments are indeed paramilitary organizations. They always have been, at least, in modern times they have been. This is what is taught in Criminal Justice classes in college, this is what is taught in the police academy, and this is also a commonly known fact. This is no revelation, and this is no conspiracy that you have uncovered. You can take "paramilitary" to mean anything you want it to, I suppose. It can mean lots of things. For example, it means that the rank and command structure of police departments is set up in a paramilitary style. The chain of command is paramilitary. Orders are given and orders are followed in a paramilitary fashion. Police officers work together as a unit or a team, just as in paramilitary operations. Just because I am stating a simple fact does not translate into me saying that *I* am a paramilitarist. Anyone that knows me would bust up laughing if they saw that I was called that. I think I can safely say that I'm very un-paramilitaristic (if such a word exists). I'm not sure I'm following what your point is for the entire topic, unless it's following the tones of what I will talk about in the next paragraph.
I clicked on your link to the article that you referenced. For those who may be wondering what link I'm referring to, it shows up near the end of "Citizen's" comments in a different color than the text and it says, "Local Cops Are Armed, Prepared For War". I don't know if it's my computer, my software, or what, but it did not show up as an underlined hyperlink on my end as is stated in the posting. Anyway, getting back to the article...I know nothing of the author or of the website or whatever source it came from. However, I certainly agree with most of what is written there. Again, there are no revelations and I fail to see the point. It talks about SWAT teams and other special or elite units within the police department receiving military training and military style weapons. This is the norm and has been ever since I have been in law enforcement. As a matter of fact, back when I was an Explorer Scout as a teenager in the early 1980's, this was still the norm for SWAT teams, etc, back then as well. I fail to see where the problem lies or what point is being made. Regular officers that are assigned to patrol assignments working a beat (as I was) do not receive that type of training and do not carry or have access to those heavy duty weapons. Only those that have received the specialized training perform those duties.
If your argument is that the police department does not need SWAT teams and other elite units, this is where I strongly disagree. In my own personal experience, our SWAT team has saved the lives of both police officers and citizens by using their special training and equipment. It's quite impressive to watch them work. In nearby San Jose, their police department does not have a "SWAT Team" per se. Instead, they have a team of officers called "M.E.R.G.E." I forget what the initials stand for, but they are on duty 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and carry special equipment in the trunks of their vehicles. The public does not know who the MERGE officers are until they are needed---then they will show up and take care of business. Nobody said that police work was always pretty and calm. The image of the friendly police officer bending down to pet a boy's dog is the opposite of what the police are sometimes required to do. They must sometimes deal with the very worst, most violent, heavily armed people in society. There is only one line of defense between the bad guys and the good guys (in most US communities)--and that is the police. There are plenty of non-newsworthy examples I could cite, but the more obvious one that I will mention was a few years ago in Los Angeles where 2 men were armed to the teeth with fully automatic weapons, body armor, and more destructive weapons then "Arnold" uses in his movies. They went in and robbed a bank, the police were called, and the shooting began. The 2 men went on a shooting spree that lasted for what seemed like an eternity. The police were so severely out-gunned that they had nothing to fight back with to take those suspects out and stop the violence to innocent citizens. That is why the closest gun store was swarmed by the police and they had to take whatever weapons and ammunition were availble---because even their own SWAT team didn't have the weapons to defend themselves or the citizens. This is a more dramatic example of why the police should continue to receive advanced training and tactics and have access to the latest high powered weapons---because the bad guys already have them which means the police need to have them also if order is going to be maintained.
I disagree with the area of that article that you quoted on the Guestbook that says the mindset of the police officer is a problem as it becomes shared with the military mindset. I don't see that happening at all. Police officers would not accept training that would teach them to act like a soldier. There would be outcries in departments everywhere by their unions and/or associations if they were to be taught like that. I don't know about other areas of the country, but specifically in the Bay Area of California, this "Community Oriented Policing" is being shoved down the throats of cops and proactive law enforcement is actually being discouraged from police chiefs and police administrations. In the strive to remain in synch with political correctness, they are forgetting that the bad guys are still out there and still need to be arrested for their crimes. Instead, some police departments (such as mine) have gone overboard in some areas by requiring silly things such as the beat officer being required to spend a minimum of 1 hour per day (9 hour shift) at your assigned "shopping center". In theory, it sounds like a good idea and I agree. However, this has caused many side-effect problems. For example, many businesses (especially the asian owned businesses) do NOT want the police in their parking lot for an hour every day. It keeps the customers away because they think something is wrong and it's a bad area because the police are always there. Also, that is 1 hour every day that the cop is not patrolling the residential areas of town (on day shift) which is when and where the burlaries are taking place. Political correctness and Community Policing are causing unnecessary problems that hardly anybody will actually come out and say, as I am doing. They're afraid to stray from the norm and tell it like it is. People don't like hearing the truth--I'm convinced of that. Instead, people want to hear the watered down version of events and they want to be told that everything is "just fine" in their town, when in reality, the exact opposite is true.
To summarize, the quoted paragraph from the article missed the mark and assumes facts not in evidence. The author of that article is simply wrong, and she obviously does not understand the business of policing. Specialized units of the police department must remain on top of the latest training techniques and weapons systems. The military is a great means for those specialty units to receive that training. And again, this is nothing new---it has been going on for years, so I don't know why the author thinks that this is a new phenomenon that is suddenly taking place and changing the face of law enforcement.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 01:00:52 (MST)
R/I/R writes:
However, the items where I dispute what was actually written is still totally valid.... your opinion.
Where do you come up with this stuff anyway?... from your silly assed posts.
Your questions are merely feigned ignorance and clearly intended to remain off topic. I need only remind you of your statement, out of context in your opinion. Nevertheless:
... ... if approached by a person carrying on about "case law", the Constitution, court decisions, blah blah blah. Here it is, plain and simple: You are looked at as a whacko.Pure paramilitarism: purely presumptive, purely preemptive. You have confirmed you are a paramilitarist ... twice ... thanks.
Question 1 Answer: Addresses the paramilitary imperative.
Question 2 Answer: Statement is self explanatory.
I suggest you read the new report by Diane Cecilia Weber for the Cato Institute, a Washington-based think tank, called Warrior Cops, The Ominous Growth of Paramilitarism in American Police Departments. Weber writes:
State and local police departments are increasingly accepting the military as a model for their behavior and outlook. The sharing of training and technology is producing a shared mind set. The problem is that the mind set of the soldier is simply not appropriate for the civilian police officer. Police officers confront not an "enemy" but individuals who are protected by the Bill of Rights. Confusing the police function with the military function can lead to dangerous and unintended consequences - such as unnecessary shootings and killings.Local Cops Are Armed, Prepared for War. I hasten to add, I am highly suspicious of the Spotlight mag and it's sponsor oranization, the Liberty Lobby. However, they are often extremely 'on the mark' and often provide information the government has been hiding for years.
NOTE: The above underlined is a hyperlink. The source sucks; the
linked article is 'on the mark'.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 23:54:55 (MST)
Citizen Target---
Everything I wrote in my previous comments that were directed at Alec you can ignore. However, the items where I dispute what was actually written is still totally valid. Where do you come up with this stuff anyway? I have 2 questions for you. I don't care if you answer them or not, but I thought it might be worth a shot.
Question number 1: What do you mean by writing the following: " Thanks for admitting you've suspended the Constitution in whatever war it is you think you are fighting." ? I have no clue what it is you're talking about and I would appreciate an explanation.
Question number 2: You wrote this two times: "You've obviously reached the wrong web site." I don't understand what you mean by that. I would also appreciate an explanation to that as well. Thanks......
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 20:06:00 (MST)
Alec---I need to apologize to you for my last posting to the Guestbook. I addressed the ENTIRE thing to you, but it was not you that wrote the original comments. That is totally MY FAULT, as I did not read who the author was. I ASSUMED it was you, which was a mistake and I should not have done that. Again, I apologize to you for directing my latest comments towards you. I should not have done that, and I WAS WRONG. I thought that you were the author of those comments, and obviously you were not. I'm sorry truly sorry about that. In the future, I will be sure to make sure I read who writes which comments.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 19:43:37 (MST)
R/I/R:
Thanks for admitting you're a paramilitarist. Police operations require and use minimum force to deliver a suspect to a court of law. Paramilitary operations require and use maximum force to secure an area, eliminate the enemy, and deliver him to his grave. You've obviously reached the wrong web site.
Thanks for admitting you've suspended the Constitution in whatever war it is you think you are fighting. You've obviously reached the wrong web site.
Beyond that:
Nice post: Long on word, short on substance, attributed to wrong
author. Typical of you, R/I/R, very typical ... and very droll.
I stick to the subject: COPS WHO KILL
You do not.
Alec covers corruption in government.
I do that elsewhere.
I have been sticking to the Guestbook.I have been sticking to the subject.
Is there a requirement that I read a certain web page in order to comment on something?Yes. Steve's Web Page. Access to a Guestbook is provided from the Host Web Page. Directly accessing a guestbook is rude and ill mannered. It shows your absolute disdain for the host and his interests. Most web sites simply do not allow accessing a guestbook directly. Steve is being more than cordial. You are being more than rude ... but, then, the paramilitary approach would be bashing in the back door uninvited ... so I suppose that approach is second nature to you.
You seem to think so.Yes, I think so.
Every now and then, I'll pop in and do one of these things to keep you under control.I believe that is Steve's job. Steve is the Host. You are not. Do try to keep your priorities straight.
Citizen_Target <kissmyass@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 19:33:16 (MST)
David---If you are serious, then that is extremely kind of you to offer that. If you would like to do such a thing, then there are two different charities that you can pick from. The first one is the American Cancer Society, where you can give a gift donation online in the name of someone else. The ACS will then mail a card to the family of the person, showing that you donated in the memory of the person. The web site for the ACS donation is: http://www.cancer.org/donate/ and then click on "Memorial Donations".
Or if you prefer, there is the Neuroblastoma Children's Cancer Society. They also take donations online. The web page can be found at: http://www.granitewebworks.com/nccs.htm.
The name of the officer that passed away is Desmond Casey. Any mail to his family and/or fiance can be addressed to: San Jose Police Department, 201 W. Mission Street, San Jose, CA 95110-1780. As long as you make it clear on the envelope that it is for the family of Desmond, it will definitely get to him. Thank you.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 17:25:29 (MST)
Alec, Alec, Alec....There you go again. I don't have the time or inclination to go through your latest piece of garbage point by point, so I will just highlight the biggies so that you know I am still paying attention to your lies and disinformation.
First of all, you wrote: " R/I/R is NOT a cop and NOT a policeman." Well congratulations. It took you this long to figure that out? I've been retired for over a year now. I suppose the "Retired" part of my signature was not enough of a give-away?
Then, you wrote: "He is a paramilitarist." Well, I guess I can't really argue with that. Police organizations are paramilitary organizations. That is why they have "ranks", such as Sergeant, Lieutenant, Captain, etc.. Thank you for pointing out the above facts.
Here's the next one: "Now, R/I/R gives us 'beating by accident'(Cox vs. Boston)." What are you saying her Alec? Are you saying that is was NOT an accident? Are you saying that the five police officers beat up that sergeant ON PURPOSE?? Wait, let me guess, it's another one of your CONSPIRACIES!! So now, not only are the police and all government employees involved in a huge conspiracy to take over the world, but now there are sub-conspiracies within the conspiracies for cops to beat up other cops? Wow---you've outdone yourself this time!
And another: "what citation does he finally accept ? The Boston Globe ... and claims everything is peachy because ONE officer was MORE than fired." Alec---when are you going to stop lying? Who is talking about "accepting a citation" from the Boston Globe (other than you)? David posted something I didn't know about, and I looked it up. So what's your point? And where did I claim things were "peachy"? You moron---go back and look at what I wrote. I said just the opposite of that.
Next: "Wonderful. William Cox spent 6 months in the hospital and we get a conviction for lying?" Alec, who is "we" when you say that "we got a conviction for lying?". The victim is the police sergeant---William Cox. The victim is not us---you or me. He is the victim in this case. You talk for months and months about our "so called government" and all of the b.s that goes with it, and now suddenly you are saying "we" and your are counting yourself in with a police sergeant? What gives? It looks to me like you're getting confused in your own lies.
This is a good one: "Summary: R/I/R claims: 1) we are all uninformed." I won't bother posting numbers 2 through 8 because it takes up too much room. Suffice it to say, again Alex, you are lying. Why do you make these things up? Is it because you are getting to the point now that you are running out of conspiracy theories to make up so now you resort to this?
Here's the next one: "Pay close attention to him ... he's the model 'cop'". Here you go again, talking out of both sides of your mouth. As I already commented at the beginning of this posting, the first words that you wrote in your posting were "R/I/R is NOT a cop". But now, you're saying that I'm the "model cop". Which one is it? Make up your mind---am I a cop or aren't I?
Followed by: "R/I/R admits there are some 'bad cops' ... but, so what, he says, they're only human so live with it." Alec, you have got to stop your lying. Nowhere have I EVER said that bad cops are "only human so live with it". You disgust me.
Next, you wrote: " ... and what case finally peaks his curiosity ? A 'cop' is wronged by a 'cop'." I'm really getting tired of going through your lies, point by point. I guess that's why I don't do it too often. It takes too long to go through everything you write because virtually every word of it is a flat out lie. In this particular quote, you say that this case finally piques my curiosity. Oh?? Are you referring to this case that was brought up by David? Yup, I think that's the one you're referring to. You see, David and I have our own conspiracy going. It's really me that is interested in this case, but instead of me bringing it up, I secretly contacted David and asked him to bring it up. That way, it looks like it's him that is bringing up the topic but in reality, it's me. But you're so smart--you were able to figure out our conspiracy. Now you know that it really is me that is interested in this case. [NOTE: As stupid as it may sound, I must point out that I am being sarcastic. I never know how Alec will respond to things so I have to point out sarcasm when it's used]
You then go on to say: "but he didn't read Steve's Web Page". You're right---I didn't. Or I should say, I haven't in a few months. Instead, I have been sticking to the Guestbook. Is there a requirement that I read a certain web page in order to comment on something? You seem to think so.
This one is great! "R/I/R alludes only to some nondescript training course, some vague and covert meeting at a Hilton Hotel; and a policemans pep rally that includes his hero: a traitor/espionage agent." I LOVE this comment by Alec---it's classic!! Oh yeah, I was at a "covert meeting" at a Hilton Hotel. It was so covert, the C-Span cameras were there recording the whole thing. As a matter of fact, it was on last night at 6:33PM Pacific time (Go to C-Span's web page if you don't believe me). Look how PARANOID you are! A covert meeting? Good grief dude---get a grip. What "policeman's pep rally" are you referring to? Is this another lie, or are you confusing the facts? I honestly don't know which one it is here. Regardless, you are wrong. I have NO idea what you are even remotely referring to.
Next: "R/I/R's 'reputable sources' so far include and only include Radio Free Bejing ... China" Huh?? Geez Alec, if you're going to continue with these lies, at least make them somewhat low-key. What made you come up with THIS one? At least it gave me another good laugh.
Whew!! That takes too damn much work to do. And too much time as well. Alec, you can go ahead and continue posting whatever you want. Every now and then, I'll pop in and do one of these things to keep you under control. But the overwhelming responses that I continue to get in my e-mail are agreeing that you are basically looked upon as a nut. If you're not, then stop acting like one. Until then, you have no credibility whatsoever with anyone.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 17:00:01 (MST)
This is to R/I, I would like to contribute $100 to your friend in the helicopter or your favorite charaty. I just need to know what it is and the address.
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 16:40:29 (MST)
David---Regarding your most recent comment to me about going to "fight the University of Chicago", you're barking up the wrong tree. I again will ask you to PLEASE take that chip off your shoulder. Take a few deep breaths, and relax. You're fighting with yourself here if you didn't realize it. I am in total agreement with the assest seizure laws where property is taken and sold at auction by the government BEFORE a trial or conviction takes place. I am also in disagreement with many of the IRS rules and policies that are just plain wrong. Additionally, I feel that corrupt police officers have no place on police departments and they should be fired and/or arrested if criminal activity took place. In my opinion, those are all common sense things. For some reason, you seem to think that I feel the opposite of that. If you are thinking these things because of what you are reading from Alec, well, what can I say? I already warned you about that guy. Just go to his web pages to see what he has posted and you'll see what I mean. Be careful what your "sources" are.
In a recent post, you also asked me the following question: " If you do not like this site and is getting tired of it, why do you continue to go to this?" David---Again, I don't know what you are doing but you're definitely not reading the things that I am writing. You might be skimming over the words and not paying attention to what is written. If that's the case, that's okay with me---I don't really care what you do. But if you're going to ask a question where the answer was just posted in my previous comments then that is showing your carelessness. Read again what I just wrote and you will see my direct answer to your question---before you even asked it.
You also wrote: " I am for the good cops.I give them my 100%". I'm sorry, but I beg to differ with you. If what you say is indeed true, then fine, so be it. However, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Anyone that is for the good cops and gives them 100% would not post a sick joke about dead cops within a few days of me losing a friend who was a true hero by all witness accounts when his police helicopter crashed.
You then go on and talk about the teargassing of band members on the field as well as innocent men and children, or people minding their own business who get sprayed with pepper spray, and others being arrested recently for no reason. I won't get into the specifics with you on these because there is no reason to. As I already told you, I do not approve of or support corrupt or law-breaking police officers. You are talking about these items as if I just defended what they did by your comment that says, "But I am immature.What do I know." Be careful about putting thoughts and/or words into other people's mouths, as you are clearly doing here. All you are doing is fighting with yourself, which I'm having difficulty understanding why.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 16:10:29 (MST)
Here is somemore information for everyone out there including R/I. It is leanthy so please bear with me. This is taken from "The University of Chicago Law Review"which can be obtained by fear.org. This is about seizure of property. "There is no presumption of innocence, no right to an attornet and no hearsay objection. The burdrn of proof is reveresed:once the government establishes probale cause that the property is subject to forfeiture the burden shifts to the property owner." And this is a country where you are innocent until proven guilty?? Look at the IRS! You are guilty until you prove you are innocent. It goes on say "That has bee analogized to Soviet-era punishment of polital offenders under "non-criminals" laws, which existed to deprive people of their criminal procedures rights." So R/I,go fight the Univeristy of Chicago.
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 15:41:59 (MST)
Steve--From the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU for the memorial to my friend, Desmond Casey, on your web page. I did not realize it was there until Spencer posted the message on this Guestbook. I always come here directly with a bookmark, so I don't see the main page first. Wow.....I'm really moved by this. If you don't mind, I will be notifying a group that has instant access to thousands of police officers worldwide of this tribute to him so that they may see it as well.
I don't know how else to express my gratitude, other than by saying Thank You again. What a wonderful tribute for a great guy.....
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area , CA USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 15:36:51 (MST)
I forgot to ask R/I, If you do not like this site and is getting tired of it, why do you continue to go to this? After all this a free country. You do not have to come here. Signed, Immature
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 15:06:54 (MST)
Do not you not just love it. Because I tell readers what is happening I am immature. It seems to R/I is the childish one to be calling names. Just because I point a few articles on www.worldnetdaily.com does not mean I am looking for anti-cop material. I am for the good cops.I give them my 100%, but when is comes to tear gassing innocent men, women, and children [by the way, they also tear gassed the band members on the field] because five students rushed the fence. Or after the superbowl this year a group of people minding their own business got pepper sprayed[that is caught on video]. Or when 60 inncocent people are handcuffed[referrance www.worldnewsdaily.com Otc. 28]and thrown on the ground.Only 8 were illigals. of that 8 only 3 are getting deported. I like to think by telling others,other people will realize our nation is becoming a police state like Russia and the KGB.But I am immature.What do I know.
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 15:00:23 (MST)
The first thing you have to realize is that R/I/R is NOT a cop and NOT a policeman. He is a paramilitarist.
R/I/R gave us 'murder by accident'(Flight 800).
Now, R/I/R gives us 'beating by accident'(Cox vs. Boston).
After months of bullshit, what citation does he finally accept ? The Boston Globe ... and claims everything is peachy because ONE officer was MORE than fired. He decided not to tell us:
In the only criminal conviction in the case, former officer Kenneth M. Conley was found guilty in June 1998 of lying to a federal grand jury. The verdict launched a rank-and-file movement to clear his name by officers who say he told the truth - that he was at the scene when Cox was being chased but did not witness the beating.Wonderful. William Cox spent 6 months in the hospital and we get a conviction for lying ? And, 4 years after the fact ? Nice work.
Summary:
R/I/R claims:
1) we are all uninformed.
2) the Constitution, law, and court orders are crap that have nothing
to do with law enforcement
3) we are all whackos; later EDPs; and recently mentally ill
4) we are all close minded
5) we read the newspapers and believe the media
6) we are all angry
7) we are all idiots
8) we are all immature.
Items 3) thru 8), perhaps true, are substantiated only from R/I/Rs own whackiness, close-mindednes, disbelief, anger, idiocy, and immaturity.
Item 1) is patently false. R/I/R is extremely informative to us all. Pay close attention to him ... he's the model 'cop'; he's what we can all expect in 'real life'. Ain't much, is it? Pay particular attention to R/I/Rs presumptive and preemptive Item 2) ... pure martial law, pure paramilitarism, pure Bejing.
R/I/R likes to look at both sides of the argument, so he says. But, always, in the end, his unsubstantiated 'police side' prevails ... the well documented 'innocent civilian side' is always ludicrous ... in his mind.
To his credit, R/I/R admits there are some 'bad cops' ... but, so what, he says, they're only human so live with it. No thanks, R/I/R.
R/I/R asks:
Is there anybody intelligent out there that can have a decent debate/conversation about this whole topic of police corruption and police wrong-doings?Certainly not R/I/R ... and what case finally peaks his curiosity ? A 'cop' is wronged by a 'cop'. This is a case that R/I/R would have found MONTHS ago ... but he didn't read Steve's Web Page ... it's there. R/I/R ignores the topic: COPS WHO KILL; unarmed, underage youths, largely minorities killed while engaging in no criminal activity whatsoever. The topic is NOT police corruption; the topic is NOT simple police wrong-doings. The REAL topic is not within R/I/Rs agenda or mission.
R/I/R says:
. I think it's time you stopped doing Yahoo searches for your information, and began getting the real facts from reputable sources.What, pray tell might those 'reputable sources' be? R/I/R alludes only to some nondescript training course, some vague and covert meeting at a Hilton Hotel; and a policemans pep rally that includes his hero: a traitor/espionage agent.
R/I/R's 'reputable sources' so far include and only include Radio Free Bejing ... China ... another country who's ONLY type of (internal) law enforcment IS paramilitarism.
From a 'reputable source':
Officer Michael A. Cox, who is black, was on duty and in plainclothes when he joined the pursuit of a murder suspect in the early morning hours of January 25, 1995 ...Yes, this Weeks' DateLine story will be interesting. My prediction: if it agrees with R/I/Rs version, it's a great story; if it disagrees with R/I/Rs version, it will be another example of journalism out of control. Best bet: Few answers, no solutions.The officers accused of the beating gave wildly inconsistent versions of the incident, initially contending that Cox was either not at the scene or that he was not hurt. The two dozen other officers present at the end of the chase denied seeing Cox at all ...
Some of the officers present <claimed Cox was hurt> after falling on a patch of ice.
Footnotes:
More than three years after the incident, the officers identified by Cox as the assailants have not been disciplined by police officials or charged criminally.The internal affairs unit, and the department more generally, have fought efforts to make any information about the Cox case public.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 13:14:40 (MST)
Steve, thank you for putting the memorial page up regarding the helicopter pilot who was killed in California. Your willingness to have an open mind encourages me to do the same.
Spencer
Rochester, NY USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 13:04:09 (MST)
David--Now you're saying that Alec is "soooooo right"? Unless you checked your sanity at the door, you better go back and re-read what Alec continues to write about. The guy is a nut job. Maybe you are too---I guess time will tell.
Now, to address the things that you wrote. This is getting so tiring to go back and go over everything that most people write in here, point by point, but if I don't do it then nobody else will. First of all, in regards to your sick joke, you say that you will give me the name of the magazine so that I can complain, and you also say that you changed "lawyer" to "cop". No, I'm not interested in the name of the magazine so that I can complain. That's the problem with you and people like you. You refuse to accept responsibility for your own actions. **YOU** are the one that posted the joke here, not the magazine. **YOU** are the one that posted the joke 4 days after my friend was killed. **YOU** are the one the one that changed the word "lawyer" to the word "cop". Be a man and accept responsibility. What kind of coward are you, trying to blame a magazine? But I guess that's what most of you people are in here anyway---cowards. None of you would ever dare to be police officers because you couldn't handle the job. First of all, your background investigation would probably disqualify you before you would even get hired. And if you did make it in the door with a job, you woudn't last 8 hours on the job. Does that mean that I look down on all people that can't be cops? No, not at all. Just the ones that sit back and complain about things that they have no idea of. And then when they are told the facts, they plug their ears, they close their minds, and they don't want to hear it. They are more comfortable pretending they have all the answers.
Next, you ask me to give my reference for the Boston case because I did not give it. Then in a later post, you say that you "suggest I click on the Boston Globe". This is exactly what I mean---you love to sit there on your high horse, pretending that you know everything and have all the answers, and you REFUSE to listen to what other people are saying. If you would have read what I originally posted, I **DID** give my source---the Boston Globe's web site. Furthermore, you also would not have posted your snide little comment about the officers running away from the plain-clothes officer they beat up when he needed medical attention if you would have read my comments on that incident. I said that this is a very serious case and I believe that all officers involved in that incident should be behind bars right now. Your ignorance is amazing. Is there anybody intelligent out there that can have a decent debate/conversation about this whole topic of police corruption and police wrong-doings? Everybody here is a complete idiot! I don't even know why I continue to waste my time here. I've got to think that there are some people out there reading all of this stuff who are just not posting to the web site, but are reading and learning from it. For those people, I guess that's why I continue with this---so that there is somebody giving the facts.
David, you also talk about Waco and other things. I know you are joining into these conversations past the time when I talked about Waco, so I don't blame you for not knowing this---but I agree that Waco was a terrible tragedy and the police/government were totally wrong. Most cops have known this for a long time now, before there was a public outcry. The evidence of what happened was presented to most of us long ago in training classes. It's amazing that it has taken this long to get to an official investigation at the Presidential/DOJ level. By the way, it's all a smokescreen. The current investigation that is going on in Washington will not produce any results. I can't say anything more than that at this point, but don't be surprised when the results of the investigation are made public---you're in for some big disappointments. This goes MUCH deeper than Waco, which is why you won't see anything happen. This is the topic for another web page though.
Additionally David, take your pompous attitude and walk right back out the door with it. As I said, your immaturity continues to shine through. I don't care what your age is, even though I have a good idea of what it really is despite what you say. The fact is, your maturity level is extremely low. Just for the record, you haven't stumbled upon some secret, anti-police web site or anti-government web site by mentioning "worldnetdaily.com". I have been involved with Joe (the President of WorldNetDaily--Joseph Farah) for several years now. Were you at the conference last month at the Universal Hilton? I didn't think so? Have you been contributing money to them to help with their cause? I didn't think so either. There is a lot you need to learn before you go spurting off those comments. This is exactly what I mean by you, and others who come in here with a pre-disposed and extremely prejudicial mind. You see that I am a police officer that recently got hurt in an on-duty incident, so you automatically think everything I say is wrong. If you people would open your minds and take the chip off your shoulder for a moment, we might be able to learn something from each other. You people just amaze me---it's as if you really do prefer being unhappy and you would rather complain then have things made better. Because if things were better and the problems were fixed, then what would you complain about? You're not happy unless you're complaining right? By the way, this applies to everybody except Alec who is WAY beyond communicating with. I know you're reading this Alec, and I know you'll copy and paste everything I say and respond with 20 pages of garbage. Go ahead--I don't care. I believe you are mentally ill. If by some strange chance that I'm wrong and you're not mentally ill, then you have one of the biggest closed minds of anyone that I have ever encountered in my entire life. You can continue to have your beliefs and opinions, that's no problem. And I can continue to disagree with you, and that is no problem as well. But your mind is so closed, and you are so prejudiced, it's absolutely incredible. Not only that, you're also a person who doesn't put his money where his mouth is. You have had opportunities to communicate with people, in plain English, yet you refuse to do it. You have had the opportunity to speak with over 100 cops in a controlled training environment with all expenses paid for you, and you turned it down. As I said, it's either a mental illness which would explain all of this very easily. Or you are just one helluva weird guy.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 08:28:58 (MST)
Alec---you're a complete and total idiot. And yes, you are definitely mentally disturbed. There's not much else I can say at this point as it is a futile endeavor.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 07:52:30 (MST)
I suggest you click on Boston Globe for oct 30 and read the article which I mentioned about the cop beating the undercover cop. It is interesting. R/I, did you read the part where the cops ran away when they found out it was a fellow cop and did not give medical attentention when he needed it? Signed, Inmature
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 06:05:20 (MST)
I have to chance the 400 people handcuffed in that www.worldnetdaily.com piece to 60 people. I read that the factory employees 400 people. R/I, only 60 people got handcuffed and thrown on the floor. Only 8 were illegals and of those 8, 3 got deported. But I am inmature.What can I do?
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net >
Aurora, Co USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 05:38:46 (MST)
Everybody,including you R/I,click on www.worldnetdaily.com and scrool down to where the feds handcuff 400 factory workers just to find 8 illegals.But I am inmature so do not listen to me R/I. The date of the article is Oct 28.
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 05:26:44 (MST)
Alec is sooooo right. R/I says I am inmature because of I am founding about cops since my experience. He says I am inmature because I think this country is becoming a Police state. When you get pulled over just to show your insurance,when your roommate does drugs [and you do not know it] the cops can sieze eveything You own, When the gov. burns your home down because of your religion [Waco] means I am inmature. R/I all this documented.And I bet I am older than you. By the way, I would like to know the source of the Boston case. I do not believe you gave it and I would like to check into it. The joke I told was in a magazine with lawyer instead of cop. I will be glad to give you the name of the magazine so you can complain.Please be gentle with me for as you say I am inmature because of my beliefs.
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 05:10:43 (MST)
Once again, R/I/R is up to his old tricks. R/I/R did exactly what I knew he would do. So, I waited until he had his say so that I could properly debunk his lies. In fact, R/I/R's comeback to Mr. David Mulberry is just about the same as what he posted on or about July 5, 1999, just before I made my first posting to this guestbook. The readers of this guestbook are strongly encouraged to read that posting and to compare it with what he just posted in response to Mr. Mulberry.
R/I/R's drivel is long, deliberately confusing, and has a very official sound to it, but his ultimate goal is always the same: an attempt to put a facade over what can now only be called obvious evidence that an aristocracy is in control of this government and that that aristocracy intends to enslave the people of this country to preserve its cushy existence. Bear in mind that the United States is required to be a republic and that an aristocracy being in control of the government is explicitly forbidden by the United States Constitution. The example that Mr. Mulberry gave is just one example of selective enforcement of the law. Judges and prosecuting attorneys routinely engage in selective prosecution, which is even worse. Citizen Target has provided numerous other examples and I even provided a couple of examples in great detail. This entire practice is obvious treason and war crimes against the people of this country, as written in the laws that the government in this country professes to go by, no less. My only question at this point is: when are the officers of this government, especially judges and prosecuting attorneys, going to be held to answer for the crimes that they are currently committing against the people?
The fact that that so called officer was ultimately "prosecuted" for "federal crimes" makes no difference. That only happened because enough people complained to the point where the aristocracy felt it needed to take that so called officer down in order to protect its appearance that it is the republican government that serves the people of this country. It is extremely revealing that that so called officer was "prosecuted" for "federal crimes" and not "state crimes." This simply means that that so called officer's "prosecution" needed to approved by the higher levels of the aristocracy.
Finally, observe the similarity between R/I/R's comeback to Mr. Mulberry and his past comebacks to me, and to Citizen Target. The readers of this guestbook should also find R/I/R's inevitable comeback to this posting I just made very similar to the comeback he just made to Mr. Mulberry's posting, except that it will no doubt be far more offensive and will definitely include some character assassination crap about me being "mentally disturbed" or some such absurdity.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
South Bay, CA USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 04:12:29 (MST)
As a follow-up to the posting I made below regarding David's question about a cop getting fired for beating up another cop by accident (in plain clothes), I need to add more information. I did a search on the Boston Globe's web site and got more details.
First of all, this Thursday on "Dateline NBC" they will be airing a story on this case. This is much more involved than a simple assault and battery. This is an incident that happened 5 years ago, and has been a local political hot potato ever since. Unfortunately, the journalist (if I can even call him that!) that wrote the article did not write a factual description of what happened---instead, he wrote a commentary on what he thinks happened. He is leaving out some very relevant facts (which is the normal thing that the mainstream news media does these days). However, if what the reporter wrote is indeed true, then the Boston PD has some serious corruption and coverup going on within their department. If it happened as it is reported, then the officers involved should all be convicted and sent to prison. Again, that is *if* it happened as it is reported in the media. I learned a long time ago to never accept as fact the things that appear in the mainstream news media. They print every article with an agenda---to make money by selling newspapers. The days of good old-fashioned journalism and hardcore investigative reporting are over. There aren't any "Watergate" reporters any more. Now it's just talking heads that repeat whatever the press release says, without digging deeper to get to the real facts. Of course, they put in their own personal comments to just make it sound juicier. But as I said, if indeed this Boston incident did occur as it is reported in the article, then I agree that something is VERY wrong and those officers should be behind bars right now. But I would like to learn more about the incident before committing to a certain stance on the matter.
And David, if you would have read the entire article or done just a LITTLE bit more research, you would have seen that one of the officers in this incident had much more happen to him than "just being fired". Right now, he is awaiting sentencing on FEDERAL crimes that he has already been convicted of.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, October 30, 1999 at 13:27:03 (MDT)
David---First of all, your "joke" is disgusting and your lack of respect towards others shows your true colors. Did you post that joke on purpose because of what I have been going through this week? You make me sick if you think that was funny. Laugh all you want to now, but you're too young and naive to realize that things like this always catch up to a person, sooner or later.
In response to your question about why a cop "only" got fired and not arrested, I don't have the time or the inclination to sit here and teach you "Criminal Justice 101". In the court system of America (no comments Alec---I already know your standard "cut and paste" response to courts, so just leave it alone for once), a judge and/or a district attorney look at the "totality of the circumstances". Also, you did not give me enough information about the case. Such as, did they have a jury trial and the jury found the suspect "not guilty"? If so, then there is the answer to your question right there. Also, a person losing his job is sometimes punishment enough and the D/A will not puruse thing any further after speaking with the victim. Also, if this was a simple case of assault and battery as you describe it, this is a misdemeanor. In a case like this, the police don't automatically arrest people. They have to take into consideration what the victim wants done. If the victim wants to press charges, then the arrest will take place. My guess is, for this specific incident that you are asking about, the victim did not want to press charges against another police officer because he/she already knew that the officer was going to lose his/her job--and that is punishment enough for a misdemeanor. There are several more complicating factors to this that I won't get into because you didn't provide enough details for the case. But in a nutshell, that is the answer to your question.
You make a sarcastic comment as if every single citizen gets arrested by the police for circumstances such as these, and your ignorance is shining through. This is fact is NOT the case at all. There are many incidents that police respond to (bar fights, fights between neighbors, room-mates, etc) where they do not arrest anybody. Again, it depends on the entire circumstance and whether or not the victim wants prosecution. Before you go spurting off sarcastic comments like you know it all, you might want to humble yourself first and maybe realize that there's a lot going on in this world that you haven't learned yet. But that kind of maturity comes with age, and judging by what you write I'm sure you're either in high school or early college age so I understand. I hope as you grow up, you learn to be a responsible man and not have the prejudiced mind that you now have. You will learn that you make yourself look very stupid when you say things before you know what the full facts are.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, October 30, 1999 at 12:59:48 (MDT)
I have just read an article about a Boston cop who beat up an undercover cop by mistake and only got fired. I ask R/I, why when Joe Sixpack beats up a guy he gets thrown in jail but when a cop beats up a guy he is not jailed but only fired?
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Saturday, October 30, 1999 at 04:54:41 (MDT)
By the way, I recommend everyone go to www.worldnetdaily.com for today and scrool down to the story about Waco.You might find it interesting.
David Mulbery <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Thursday, October 28, 1999 at 16:21:10 (MDT)
Question: What is a cops ideal weight? Answer: About three pounds,including the urn. Question: What does BATF stand for? Answer: Bad attitude towards freedom.
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Thursday, October 28, 1999 at 16:16:23 (MDT)
I have been harrassed by the cops for too long...it's time for revenge...can you tell me how i can buy the song by Ice-T called Cop Killer???
gabe Briggs <samhain10304@hotmail.com>
rochester, NY USA - Thursday, October 28, 1999 at 14:13:06 (MDT)
Steve:
I did not post that message in an attempt to cause R/I/R any grief or to "seek revenge." I am desperately trying to communicate to R/I/R, by any means that I can, how urgent it is that he recognize the fraud that calls itself our public government for what it is. The fraud that calls itself our public government doesn't merely suck. It is also unstable and is decaying quickly into something that would make hell look like a picnic, and we don't have much time. As you have no doubt seen, I have tried to get this through to R/I/R until I am blue in the face, but nothing seems to work. If you have a better way to communicate this to R/I/R, please show me.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Thursday, October 28, 1999 at 08:03:10 (MDT)
Regarding your friend, I don't like to see anyone die, especially when they weren't hurting anyone or trying to hurt anyone. But, I must say, if you get your way and the system that you protect continues to exist for much longer, a lot more innocent people just like your friend, whether police or not, are going to die. Reconsider your absurd protection of this fraudulent government while you still can. [This is a cheap shot, Alec. Yes, the government sucks. Yes, Echelon is a reality. But that has nothing to do with his friend, who appears to have been the kind of officer I want on the streets to replace the ones who abuse their power. --steve]
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Wednesday, October 27, 1999 at 01:36:29 (MDT)
R/I/R is simply full of it and will sell all of the people of this country to the devil in order to preserve his cushy existence. No matter what anyone brings to his attention, if it doesn't fit his agenda, he will simply ignore it and manufacture some sort of cheap comeback that looks official in order to continue misleading people. It is extremely revealing that R/I/R's comebacks to Citizen Target are beginning to look like those he directs to me, especially considering that Citizen Target has brought forth a mountain of facts proving a systematic pattern of police brutality. At this point, every so called objection that R/I/R is making here, I have already answered in my previous postings. I simply grow tired of repeating myself, especially to someone who has attacked my character as viciously as R/I/R did. But, there is one completely crucial point that again needs to be made: R/I/R's declarations of someone else's quoting of the law, presentation of evidence, etc. being "wrong, way off, etc." are ludicrous, because the United States is a republic.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Wednesday, October 27, 1999 at 01:26:01 (MDT)
Oh, I think I remember who the latest person to blame is... the anarchist! Is that the current one?
A little about me (because of the recent previous post): no, I'm not Christian. At all. (Except that I think Jesus was a kinda cool dude.) In fact, I dislike most Christians, but *especially* the self-righteous, "you're going to hell", "I know I'm not supposed to judge other, but..." assholes.
However, there is the rare Christian, who believes in what Christ said, and not necessarily Christ as a god to worship or a church to attend. To me, *that* would be a true Christian.
As for my politics, I'm an anarchist. I agree with some communist/socialist/Marxist stuff, but I'm far from a communist.
Oh, and if you don't know what I am in a certain case, just stick an 'a' in front of an '-ist' word, and it's not unlikely that I'm that. :)
(Had a little more time tonight; one of my after school meetings was cancelled.)
Ross
- Tuesday, October 26, 1999 at 19:55:35 (MDT)
...What the hell is it with evil-commie-red-socialist-leftwing-scum bullshit around here? Isn't that an outmoded paranoia? I don't recall what the hip one is now, though.
However, if anyone believes that someone is a criminal for being a socialist, or whatever, you need some help. Socialism is just another political belief. And, if "real-world" examples are used to back up the "facts", don't forget that there has been no truly socialist (/communist (Marxist)) government yet.
China claims to be a communist country, yet steps on the people every chance it gets, which is exactly the opposite of communism.
Orwell saw socialism as an inferior system to the British one. However, he based his assertions on the leaders of "socialist" governments/movements, people who were obviously not truly socialist, but merely used it as something to manipulate, as can be done with *any* system of belief.
Evil Commies being blamed for things reminds me of Christians being blamed for Bad Things. That is, Christians in general (and thus real Christians) take the blame for all the people claiming to be Christian, while doing everything Christ was against.
Because of how institutions are screwed up, I guess you can't really refer to someone as socialist, Christian, or anything, easily. It seems that those who truly believe in something have been far outnumbered by those grouped under the same heading, for whatever reason.
However, I think that my main problem with the stuff I've read around here comes from my belief that people have said that persons are bad or have done bad things *because* of what they are...
Well, I'm sure that that was coherent...
Ross
- Tuesday, October 26, 1999 at 19:47:29 (MDT)
retired/injured guy: sure, respond to my stories. Even if I don't get to read them...
That's unfortunate that your friend was killed. However, I won't pray, as I don't believe in it.
Oh, and I sincerely do hope that everyone wore black last Friday. Especially the cops who claim to be against corrupt cops, police brutality, etc.
Gotta go.
Ross
- Tuesday, October 26, 1999 at 14:12:21 (MDT)
To R/I, I am sorry about your friend in the helicopter.I realize you are grieving just as I am.This should not have happened.It sounds like he was a good cop.
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Tuesday, October 26, 1999 at 05:54:13 (MDT)
If we can all put our differences aside for a moment, please say a prayer for the family of my friend who was just killed a few hours ago on duty. He was the pilot of "Air One"---San Jose Police Department's helicopter, and it crashed onto city streets killing him and the helicopter mechanic who was on board with him. The helicopter had been in the shop for repairs, and they were taking it on it's first test flight since coming out of the shop. My friend, the pilot/officer, was able to force the helicopter away from homes and other buildings in a very dense area of San Jose--less than a mile from the airport. Witnesses reported the engine making strange noises, followed by the helicopter spinning as it fell to the ground. His name has not been released yet because they can't locate his parents who are on vacation, so I will not put his name here yet out of respect for the family. His fiance is devastated, as are his friends and co-workers. I can't believe this happened. This officer has done many great things for the community with his piloting skills. For the last 4 years, he has rented a helicopter with his own money in order to fly "Santa Claus" to the parking lot of our police station for the annual kid's Christmas party. Even though he did not work for the same police department as I did, he still volunteered his time so that the kids would have a good time and great memories of Santa flying to the police station. He also talked his boss into allowing him to fly "Air One" (the San Jose PD helicopter) to the grade schools where the D.A.R.E. graduations were being held--again, these were not San Jose schools but those of a neighboring city where I worked. He cared about kids and loved being able to show them a police helicopter. He paid for his own helicopter training while he was working in patrol, because he wanted to work in the helicopter unit so badly. He will be dearly missed by many........
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Monday, October 25, 1999 at 20:39:40 (MDT)
What a trip. Get yer red hot American Heroes, here:
- a communist fresh from Bejing,
- a Chicago shyster lawyer,
- and ...
- ole B-1 Bob ... B as in bitter.
- and ...
Ole B-1 Bob doesn't like the rules and got himself thrown out of the House of Representatives. Time for your American Hero Bitter-One Bob to sit down and take a nap.
Here's what Bob's colleagues have to say about him:
The wonderful thing about ex-Congressman Bob Dornan, other than that he is an ex-congressman, is that one's distaste for the man need never be compromised by the likelihood that he will express a decent or intelligent thought.The above from CSPAN House proceedings ... which I'm sure R/I/R will tell us is just the Hallmark Home Theatre Simulated version of the House of Representatives. The above, recorded in the Federal Register ... which I'm sure R/I/R will tell us is a fictional document daily produced by Rupert Murdoch. Let's see:
hundreds of innocent people murdered by our own military (during a training accident) ...Wonderful. Murder by accident. O do quote us a statute from the USC or any state code that gives us 'murder by accident'. It can now be clearly stated, re-quoting others, of course, that:
The wonderful thing about retired cop R/I/R, other than that he is a retired cop, is that one's distaste for the man need never be compromised by the likelihood that he will express a decent or intelligent thought.PS:
Here's mean ole Representative Loretta Sanchez, 46th District, Orange County who kicked Bitter-1 Bobs ass ... not once but twice.
Bitter-1 Bob ... take a seat, tip a few drinks with ole R/I/R ... and enjoy the California sunshine ... and give it a rest.
Again, if the picture doesn't load, click here for the Honorable Representative Loretta Sanchez, that grand and beautiful Congresswoman from Orange County, California.
... and Bob, you're ugly, too.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Monday, October 25, 1999 at 16:43:33 (MDT)
Citizen: Geez, where do I even begin with responding to what you wrote? I'll do what I can, before I get bored with all of this.
-" but you ASSUME I didn't review all three. The reason, obviously, is I only posted two." I don't know what the hell you are trying to say in that entire post that you put up last night, but the majority of it makes no sense to me. The one thing that DOES make sense is that your are back-tracking severely, trying to get yourself out of an awkward position that you placed yourself into. You clearly stated in a previous post that you reviewed all 3 of the names that I listed, yet you only listed 2 of them. And now, you come back and say that you did review all 3 of them, but only chose to list 2??? What???? Where do you come up with this stuff? If you were going to review all 3, and only list 2, you would have listed a reason why you did not mention the 3rd person. But you didn't--and now you're trying to make up a confusing, rambling reason why. Why you just didn't write "I forgot" or something like that is beyond me. You must really be that mean spirited of a person that you can't even admit a minor mistake. A man that can admit he made a mistake has honor and respect---one that gets caught and questioned on that mistake, and tries to justify it with garbage like you wrote loses all respect and all honor.
-" you're ASSUMING ... to correct your phrase ... it's making an ASS out of U and ME both ... hence ASS-U-ME equals ASSUME." Oh, I know exactly what the phrase is. You don't have to correct me with anything. I puposely left out the part of "ASSUME" making an ass out of ME, because it did not do anything such thing. The ASSUMPTION only made an ass out of YOU. There was no mistake on my part--I listed it that way very much on pupose.
-" a Yahoo search yields 1,051 sources of information on Johnny Chung." That's one of the major differences between you and me----you search on Yahoo for something and get thousands of "hits" on the topic that you were searching for. You ASSUME that the information that Yahoo (or other search engines) give you is accurate and true. The majority of the information on the Internet is false, with no evidence to back up their claims. There are only a few web sites with true information, and you have to pick them very carefully. Your information on Johnny Chung being listed on Yahoo 1,051 times is less than impressive and is actually downright insignificant.
-"Is an unsolicited air line disaster the best you can do ?" No--I can and HAVE done much better than that. And it was not unsolicited. You mentioned CNN as if what they report is truthful and factual, when in fact, CNN does nothing but pump out propaganda on a daily basis. And people like you suck that information up and you believe it. You're being brainwashed by the government and by the news media, which is exactly what the news media wants. They don't want you to be self-reliant. They don't want you to know how to access the facts. You are so incredibly ignorant, but you can change that if you would only OPEN YOUR MIND. Someday, you will see what I am saying to you. But you will not see it now, because you are not ready for it. And the airline disaster that I mentioned you just glanced right over as if it's no big deal. Unbelieveable----hundreds of innocent people murdered by our own military (during a training accident), followed by a massive coverup by the news media and the government---and you make virtually no comment on it?? Oh, that's right. Those dead people weren't killed by the police---so you don't give a shit. I need to remember that you're a cop hater.
-"Challenge: I did your homework on Three American Heroes ... about which you supplied us zilch ... absolutely nothing ... nada ... goose eggs." You did "my homework" on these people???? I didn't know it required any homework. Nor did I request any "homework" be done. What are you talking about anyway?
-"Where's your review on Kenneth Mathison ? Cough it up, butte head." Sorry--but you're not my teacher, and I don't do your "homework" assignments. If you want to say who this man is, fine. But I'm not about to go look it up.
Now, regarding your summation of Larry Klayman (the paragraphs that are in green in your posting below)......I don't know where you got that, but it couldn't be more wrong. The factual information that you listed is so incredibly WAY off. Let me guess---you got it from CNN??? You said that he has 18 suits against the Clinton Administration---no, it's 42---you're way off. You also say that Judicial Watch is backed by money from Richard Mellon Scaife. I don't know who this man is---should I? You say that he is a critic of President Clinton---GOOD!!!! President Clinton is guilty of treason and other high crimes. And Larry Klayman, by the way, if funded by donations from ordinary citizens including myself. He is a great American Hero and he is the last hope that our country has to hold these people accountable for selling us out to China and other countries. Now that the independant counsel law is dead, there is nobody else. It's supposed to be the Justice Department, but that is controlled by Clinton's own Janet Reno--and she continues to throw road blocks at every opportunity to cover for Clinton. Do you have ANY idea what the facts are? If you are a Clinton supporter, than you don't know what the facts are. Because if you did have your facts together, you would never support him or his staff. Unless you're a socialist criminal---which is entirely possible. And just for the record, Judicial Watch is not "out to get" the Democratics. They are a NON-PARTISAN watchdog group that goes after government crimes and coverups. They have already gone after several Republicans, as well as Republican appointed judges. I think it's time you stopped doing Yahoo searches for your information, and began getting the real facts from reputable sources.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Monday, October 25, 1999 at 05:58:19 (MDT)
Alec: Once again, your latest posting to this Guestbook is full of completely wrong information, and outright lies about what I have said or have not said. What wrong information have you posted? Oh my gosh, I barely know where to begin! If I were to list all of your wrong information and all of your lies, I would be sitting here for the next 8 to 10 hours going back through all of your posts trying to find them in between all of the whining and complaining that you are so good at. I'll just note a few of them now, and leave it at that. If you can't handle the few that I list now and *demand* more (demand seems to be a word that you like to use), well forget it. I'm growing tired of you more and more each day. But here are some lies and wrong info that you posted recently:
-"Being police, you lay claim to powers that you say that I do not have." For your edification ONCE AGAIN Alec, I lay claim to no special powers. That is part of your dilusional mind. You hear what you want to hear, and this is a perfect example of that. I have NEVER claimed special powers in my current situation. As a matter of fact, on two separate occassions I have said that the "powers of arrest" are identical when comparing a police officer and a citizen (in California). The one exception to that has to do with certain felonies, but that rule does not apply to anything that has been discussed here. So I must, once again, ask you to stop lying and stop spewing out false information. You have no idea what you are talking about.
-"(sorry, no secret agent crap; that is your delusion)" Alec---again, you are lying. As I already pointed out, I got the words "secret agent" DIRECTLY off of **YOUR** web page. If I recall correctly, it is the web page where you have another legal mumbo-jumbo document that you submitted in reference to a traffic stop that was made on you by a police officer in the city of Torrance. I'm not going to go back and research that now, but I believe that is where it came from. I did NOT make up the "secret agent" crap---YOU did, and you have used it in an official court document where you continue with your garbage about these big conspiracy theories just because you got pulled over by a police officer. I'm surprised you weren't taken on a 72 hour hold!
-"Now, I say again, act on my evidence." Get real, you idiot. First of all, under what authority do you get off on ordering me to "act" on your "evidence"? Second of all, why don't you look up the legal definition of a medically retired police officer. You ignorant fool.
-"Are you trying to tell the people of this country that you and the rest of the police are part of the problem?" Alec, Alec, Alec.....Yup, sure. That's exactly what I'm telling the people of this country. That the police are part of the problem. GET REAL! Without police, this country would be a horrible place to live. Does this mean that they, and only they, are keeping the order of the whole country? No--do not put words into my mouth. I have to say that in advance because I know what your tricks are. The police are one group of many that contribute to the order of this country.
-"A legally proven nationwide money fraud and nationwide court system fraud that affects every person in this country (not just me) is not my "opinion." Alec--legally proven by whom? By you??? If so, you have GOT to be kidding! If this was legally proven, don't you think this "discovery" would be appearing on the RELIABLE internet sites or television shows where respectable reporters and others make this information public knowledge? Or in this day and age of people writing books for every topic imaginable, wouldn't someone have written a book about this by now so that they could make their instant millions that way? This is nothing but a bunch of crap that you speak of. If you were to lay this thing out in a logical fashion, and then follow-up with it by laying out some real-world solutions to this, then you MIGHT have a LITTLE bit of credibility. But you are the only person so far that has been mentioning this stuff, and I am heavily involved in the various groups that are out to fight government corruption. That is why I'm beginning to reach the point of wasting my time with you. Your tunnel vision has limited you so severely.
-"What are you and the rest of the police doing about it?" Well Alec, if you don't know the answer to that by now, then I'm certainly not going to take the time to go back over it AGAIN.
I've listed enough for now. And this is just from ONE of your postings on the Guestbook. I could do this to every single one of your postings, but I simply don't want to take the time and effort to do it. That's because the people reading this stuff can figure it out for themselves---it's very easy. The many e-mails that I continue receiving from people tell me this, so I know it's true. When are you going to come to the realization of how messed up your information is?
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Monday, October 25, 1999 at 05:14:55 (MDT)
Citizen Target, you posted:
"...Larry KlaymanI must further add that the Mellon family is a rich banking family and is one of the owners and stockholders of the Federal Reserve, which is the root of the money fraud in this country. If, in fact, Larry Klayman is funded by the Mellon family, then, he most certainly is spreading propaganda in order to keep the people of this country divided, conquered and confused.
Founder of Judicial Watch
Funded by Richard Mellon Scaife..." (Italics added for emphasis).
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Monday, October 25, 1999 at 00:57:07 (MDT)
R/I/R wrote:
I am fully aware of the crimes and coverups that are ongoing at the highest levels of our government on both sides of the aisle. I have said this to you before---the very first part of what you begin to talk about I actually agree with.R/I/R, if that is the case, then why have you done nothing about these corrupt government officials? I, alone, not counting others, must have directly asked you at least three times to either take action yourself or get others to do it. You refused each and every time and responded with a character attack instead. You accuse me of "whining" and "hiding behind my computer." What about you? You are police. I am not. Being police, you lay claim to powers that you say that I do not have. According to the rules that you have professed to go by, I have done my part in bringing forth the necessary evidence and putting forth the request that you act on it. You want to call that evidence, my "opinion?" A legally proven nationwide money fraud and nationwide court system fraud (sorry, no secret agent crap; that is your delusion) that affects every person in this country (not just me) is not my "opinion." Specific and clear examples of crimes committed against people other than myself by power elite figures, including Ira Reiner, resulting from that nationwide corruption, that I, and others, have posted to this guestbook is not my "opinion." Now, I say again, act on my evidence.
You claim that the police are what is preventing this country from going out of control. This country is already out of control. What are you and the rest of the police doing about it? Answer: nothing. Are you trying to tell the people of this country that you and the rest of the police are part of the problem?
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Monday, October 25, 1999 at 00:40:56 (MDT)
BTW, R/I/R, a Yahoo search yields 1,051 sources of information on Johnny Chung. I picked CNN ... it was sufficient. You don't like CNN ? Tough shit.
So, where's your review on something relevant to this WebSite ? Is an unsolicited air line disaster the best you can do ?
Challenge: I did your homework on Three American Heroes ... about which you supplied us zilch ... absolutely nothing ... nada ... goose eggs. Where's your review on Kenneth Mathison ? Cough it up, butte head.
Citizen_Target <kissmyass@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Sunday, October 24, 1999 at 23:21:55 (MDT)
Larry Klayman:
Larry Klayman
Founder of Judicial Watch
Funded by Richard Mellon Scaife
Larry Klayman is in the middle of most every Democratic scandal ricocheting through Washington.An American Hero ? A (contemporary) lawyer ? Get serious.A once-obscure trade lawyer who founded his conservative "watchdog" group Judicial Watch in 1994, Klayman is suing the Clinton administration in 18 separate matters, alleging an array of government cover-ups related to such things as Commerce Department trade missions and the suicide of White House deputy counsel Vincent W. Foster.
Klayman is backed by money from Richard Mellon Scaife, a virulent critic of President Clinton. And armed with broad-ranging subpoena power by a federal judge, Klayman has become a kind of permanent, privately funded independent counsel, pioneering * Democrats say abusing * the use of civil lawsuits as a political weapon against the administration.
18 suits against the Clinton Administration
Subpoena of Mayer, New Yorker reporter quashed
a) not relevant; info sought does not go to heart of plaintiffs case b) 20 subpoena limit
Again, if the picture doesn't load ... http://members.tripod.com/~memory_lane/jpgs/klayman.jpg
Satisfied ? OK, now, look at the picture and move the gun
slowly in and out ... don't forget to pull the trigger
occasionally.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Sunday, October 24, 1999 at 23:06:54 (MDT)
R/I/R wrote:
: You said that you completed reviews on all 3 of the heroes that I listed. No you didn't---I only see reviews on 2 of themKeep yer britches on, butte face ... you're ASSUMING ... to correct your phrase ... it's making an ASS out of U and ME both ... hence ASS-U-ME equals ASSUME. Nice phrase and almost always appropriate. We agree on that.
You are guilty of post hoc propter hoc logic:
A) I completed my reviews on all three. TRUE
B) You only see two. TRUE.
... you listed nothing about Klayman.TRUE ... tough shit ...
... but you ASSUME I didn't review all three. The reason, obviously, is I only posted two.
No big whoop. I do it all the time (post hoc, propter hoc). You do it all the time. Difference is, I admit I do it and correct it. You refuse to admit it and never correct it.
Hang on, report on Hero Number 3, Klayman, the intrepid Chicago Lawyer who tried to skin Clinton coming soon ... and stick that gun back up your ass where it belongs.
Citizen_Target <kissmyass@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Sunday, October 24, 1999 at 22:51:42 (MDT)
Citizen: You said that you completed reviews on all 3 of the heroes that I listed. No you didn't---I only see reviews on 2 of them---Chung and Dornan. You listed nothing about Klayman.
Chung did not have handcuffs on his wrists. If you knew anything about him, you would know WHY he is not wearing them. He made mistakes---HUGE mistakes. But unlike some people, he has realized that he was wrong. He realized what terrible things he was doing. That is why he has decided to "spill the beans" and explain the flow of money from the Chinese military and Chinese government directly into the DNC's accounts. Chung was admitted to the White House with monetary contributors from China over 50 times. He was right in there with the dirtiest of them all---and he was being just as dirty at the time. However, the big differentiation between him and all the other "players" in this criminal activity is the fact that Chung has decided to do what is right for America. If I'm not mistaken, I believe he is an American citizen now, but I could be wrong. Yes---he was born in Taiwan. But he has singlehandedly blown open the "Chinagate" scandal with his testimony which DIRECTLY implicates Bill, Hillary, Al, and other high-level White House cabinet members and staffers. And for that, he is a hero. He is doing THE RIGHT THING. When people make mistakes and commit crimes, even crimes of this magnitude, they can still redeem themselves in certain ways. Chung has chosen to redeem himself by turning in everyone involved in the scandal. Not many people are willing to do that---look at Susan McDougal. She would rather rot in jail and protect that slimeball Bill Clinton than do the right thing and testify against him by telling the truth. Yes--Johnny Chung is a hero of mine for what he has chosen to do for this country. He didn't start out as a good guy that's for sure, but he's ending out a good guy and that is what counts. It takes an open mind, and it takes flexibility to see things in "color"--not in black and white like I believe you and others see things. Your minds are pre-disposed with certain opinions regardless of what the facts are. Thank God I'm not that narrow-minded!
Oh--and regarding the "poll" you listed of Johnny Chung and whether or not he was telling the truth. Who cares? I sure don't. Polls mean nothing to me. Polls are garbage. They can be manipulated to get any results that you want. If you polled 50 people on this web site if they trusted the police, overwhelmingly the answer would be "no". If you asked the same question to a group of 50 spouses of police officers, the overwhelming answer would be "yes". Who cares what a poll says? You have fallen into that trap that the the Clinton gang and the corrupt politicians want you to believe---that somehow, a poll means something. It doesn't mean squat!
You also made mention that "CNN confirmed" a statistic. Oh good God----you believe what CNN reports?? The "Clinton News Network"??? Please.....I know this has nothing to do with the topic of this Guestbook, but I will give you just a VERY small example of CNN and how they are paired up with the government to pump out propaganda to it's viewers. At this seminar I attended over the weekend, they showed us a CNN news clip where they did a fancy computer animation of what happened to bring down TWA Flight 800 off the coast of New York over a year ago. They went into great detail explaining how the old wiring in the fuel tanks created a spark, which resulted in a massive explosion of fuel vapors in the wing tanks which made the plane explode into a fiery ball and crash into the ocean. Hmmmm.....sounds like a plausible thing to happen. But what CNN did NOT tell you is that they interviewed over 50 people that told their reporters that they personally witnessed a missle coming up from the ocean (several miles off the coast) and making a direct "hit" on the 747 jet, exploding it instantly and watching it crash into the ocean in 2 huge pieces. In all, over 200 witnesses went to the various news agencies and they ALL told them that they witnessed a missle take out Flight 800. Was that reported on CNN or any other news network? Nope. Well, here is the evidence that will lock this up tight---there just happens to be **TWO** home videos of a US Navy missle heading straight for the TWA jumbo-jet and crashing right into it, exploding it and causing it to explode in a fiery ball and crash into the ocean. One person videotaping this was standing on his balcony and was playing with his new video camera, filming the ocean. He saw a missle come up from WAY off the coast and followed the missle with his camera--all the way up until it CLEARLY collided with the TWA jet. Another person was out on a yacht on a fishing charter. He was also videotaping right at the moment the missle was launched from the Navy ship. He followed the missle all the way up until it made contact with the TWA jumbo-jet. Over 200 eye-witnesses, and 2 crystal clear videos of a missle taking out the aircraft. And what does CNN report?? A problem with "fuel tank wiring" that caused and explosion. And you actually want to quote CNN as a source for ANYTHING? I don't believe a word about any topic that comes out of the mainstream news---they're all working together with the government to feed the citizens garbage. And we're falling for it. (By the way, the Navy did not launch the missle at the TWA jumbo-jet on purpose. They were doing training exercises off the coast of New York and they were launching missles. But the one that took out the TWA jet was a mistake---it was not supposed to happen. So this is not some "conspiracy theory" of the government purposely taking out a civilian jet---it was a horrible mistake and they are covering the entire incident up so the Navy won't look like incompetent fools.) Listen "Citizen", you can hate me all you want. I really don't give a shit about that. But pull your head out of your ass and open up your mind and start seeing things for what they really are. The majority of cops in this country are honest, hardworking people that do their best to keep the neighborhoods safe for us. Not just safe from criminals, but from traffic accidents also by issuing "speeding" tickets and other tickets. Study after study proves that when police issue tickets in a certain area, the accident rate goes down. That's why police aren't "out there catching a REAL criminal" when they write speeding tickets. Their job is the public's safety which includes many things. Does that mean that you can now prove me wrong by talking about a corrupt cop that illegally beat the crap out of somebody? No---as I've said many times, there are bad cops out there. Always has been--always will be. That's because cops are human, and human make mistakes and sometimes can't resist temptations. But those kinds of cops are hugely in the minority. Thank God we have police, because without them this country would be totally out of control.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, October 24, 1999 at 21:31:39 (MDT)
Alec: I attended the seminar to "make myself look good in the eyes of others" ??? Yes indeed, you are a whacko. What in the world are you talking about?
And if you weren't such a mental case that didn't have tunnel vision that is so narrow due to your own agenda of "conspiracy theories", you would have read my statements several times in the past regarding my opinions towards government corruption. I am fully aware of the crimes and coverups that are ongoing at the highest levels of our government on both sides of the aisle. I have said this to you before---the very first part of what you begin to talk about I actually agree with. This is NOT a revelation---I have said this many times before, ever since the beginning. But then you take that information and go off onto "secret agent", "courts of attornment", "everyone is out to get you" crap and I couldn't disagree with you more. There is no having a conversation with you. Do you realize that? Your mind is made up---no matter what. The main thing I have to keep doing is responding to what you write in response to my comments---I have to correct the words that you put in my mouth, and the incorrect laws that you quote. That's been the extent of the conversations. You don't want to talk issues----you have no desire to talk issues. Your number one goal is to tell everybody "Look at my conspiracy theories!", and then back it up with something that you call "evidence" but I see it as nothing more than non-sensical mumbo-jumbo that is basically just a bunch of b.s. Furthermore, the police that are so "corrupt" you won't even go and talk to. That's because you know how much of a fool you would make of yourself. They would ask you questions and give you facts that you wouldn't know how to handle. You don't like reality---you like hiding behind a computer. And I have no problem with that---if that's your thing. But if you're going to preach about so many corrupt and illegal things, and create a web page (and I still don't know what it says) attempting to preach the same thing, and talk smack about police officers---then you darn well better have the balls to face the people that you accuse of doing these things, under a controlled environment in a classroom setting. I'm just about finished with my postings here. I have learned many things about you and people like you. I just think it's a shame that people like you exist---such a closed mind, and such a negative mind. No desire to make things better at all----just chronic whining, complaining, and disrespecting hardworking Americans.
Retired/Injured Cop <uwer3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, October 24, 1999 at 20:49:38 (MDT)
US Congressman Bob Dornan, 46th District, Garden Grove, Orange County, CA
In 1958, Dornan left active duty and joined the California Air National Guard as an F-86 Sabrejet pilot and an intelligence officer, achieving the rank of captain. He survived two F-86 Sabrejet emergency parachute ejections as well as a smooth "dead stick" forced-landing of a flamed out F-100 "Supersabre" on a desert (neither was pilot error) dry lakebed.For the above, and other reasons, Bob Dornan is indeed an American Hero.Dornan has piloted every aircraft in the U.S. military arsenal, including the B-2 "Spirit," B-1 "Lancer," U-2 , SR-71 "Blackbird," AV-8 "Harrier," and F-15E "Eagle" as well as the Israeli "Kfir,’ and Israeli F-15 and F-16, the British "Tornado" "Harrier," and "Hawk," and the French "Mirage," In 1994 Dornan flew with the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds
NOTE: If for some reason your browser did not load the picture, you
can find it at http://members.tripod.com/~memory_lane/jpgs/dornan.jpg
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Sunday, October 24, 1999 at 11:46:05 (MDT)
R/I/R:
I've completed review of the 3 heroes you so much wanted us to learn about.
After much consideration and in the spirit with which you provided the list of three, I feel obligated to add Kenneth Mathison to the list.
Thank you so much for advising us of these 3 American Heroes.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Sunday, October 24, 1999 at 11:28:51 (MDT)
R/I/R wrote:
I just met Johnny Chung, Bob Dornan, and Larry Klayman.Re: Hero Number 1 ... was he able to shake your hand while he was wearing those handcuffs ? Did ya cuff him or uncuff him ?
 Johnny Chung |
|
||||||||
Note 2: Question: How does a man who commits felonies and admits to same become an American hero ???
Note 3: If he's American, then he's committed treason. If he's not American, then he's not an American hero.
Quick Background:
John Chung, 43-year-old Taiwanese-born businessman, Democratic Party fund-raiser, has told
federal investigators that China's General Ji Shengde
chief of military intelligence funneled $300,000 through him to back President
Bill Clinton's 1996 re-election campaign, CNN has confirmed.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Sunday, October 24, 1999 at 10:51:47 (MDT)
"...This seminar talked about the Constitution, our forefathers, the corruption and crimes at the highest levels of our government, and how to take back control of our country from the socialist/communist politicians that are now holding office..."If R/I/R had paid any attention at all to what is up on my website, he would have then realized that that statement that he made above is exactly what I had been saying all along, except that I say in addition that those socialists/communists are primarily concentrated in the court system in this country and that the court system needs to be given priority when it comes to cleaning house. But, instead, he attacks my character. I don't believe that he is interested in taking back the country at all from these socialists/communists and that he attended that seminar merely to make himself "look good" in the eyes of others. Regarding "me turning down his invitation," I again say, why would I want to face 100 people like him?
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Sunday, October 24, 1999 at 00:09:20 (MDT)
Ross: Regarding the "cop stories" that you posted, I am interested in responding to those. I wanted to check first to see if you will be coming back to the Guestbook at all before I went and posted a response to what you wrote. Leave a message on here if you would like a response to your cop stories--I will be happy to make some comments on them if you would like......
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 20:14:44 (MDT)
Alec----You are a complete idiot. I can't believe that you *still* continue to say that you have "evidence". All you have shown people is a web page full of garbage that the average Joe can't read. How in the world can you call that "evidence"? Obviously, you have no idea what real evidence consists of. But since you're not in law enforcement or the judicial system (except as a defendant by your own admission), I wouldn't expect you to know.
Furthermore, you continue to say that you have shown me "evidence" that the LAW states that I am required to act upon. This just shows your blatant ignorance for the law, and the crusade to have people believe your utterly false information and lies.
I am in Southern California (at a rented computer) right now attending an incredible seminar. And for you knuckleheads that ASSUMED I was at a "police" training seminar, well, that just shows you what happens when you ASSUME something---you make an ASS out of U.....This seminar talked about the Constitution, our forefathers, the corruption and crimes at the highest levels of our government, and how to take back control of our country from the socialist/communist politicians that are now holding office. You see, I'm interested in DOING something to make things better. Unlike you Alec, who is just a leech on society who hides behind a computer screen writing non-sensical garbage and pointing fingers at people who you feel are part of some big "X-Files" conspiracy. You need to get a life dude. Today's seminar brought tears to my eyes, and hundreds of other people as well. I just met Johnny Chung, Bob Dornan, and Larry Klayman. If you people don't know who those men are, then I pity you. They are true American heroes who are DOING something to make this country a better place for everybody.
I was going to say that I have wasted my time on this Guestbook because it's been like talking to a wall. But I now know that that's not true at all. I have learned so many things about the whiners and complainers of the world who actually ENJOY being miserable. When it comes right down to putting their money where their mouth is, they don't follow through (example: Alec turning down the opportunity to speak before a group of over 100 police officers----lame excuse you gave Alec, and you know it! You're just a coward). I have also learned through my e-mail address that I have been listing here that there is quite a large number of people who have been following things on here for several months now, but they have chosen to remain off the Guestbook for various reasons---which I understand perfectly. But it's nice to know that I've got such overwhelming support on a web page that brings so many people with VERY biased and prejudiced views of things. It just goes to prove to me that the truth will ALWAYS survive over lies, and that good will ALWAYS win over evil...GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 20:11:13 (MDT)
Just doing my monthly check-in. Once again, same shit-different day. Alec--Take your medicine. Retired--You're not alone, there are alot of your supporters sitting back and watching. This page, as well as many others which are similar, is a good eye opener to recruits. It gives great insight into how well the police are appreciated. Steve--Never mind, you'll edit it out anyway.Teh Editor: Phwat a loser you are! Is this "take your medicine" crap the only cheap comeback you know? So, you can't even create something so stupid as cheap comebacks. You must really be braindead. Regarding R/I/R's supporters, his only supporters are his partners in crime.
"Teh Editor" <Yeah, right!>
USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 16:09:14 (MDT)
Regarding this page being an "eye opener to new recruits," and considering that the evidence is becoming sufficient to prove that police brutality in this country is a systematic and deliberately planned process, are you trying to tell the world that new recruits are trained to be brutal and when the people protest their brutality, they are trained to respond with canned comebacks and character attacks such as what you, R/I/R and Bryan have done? Please be more direct and simply say that the police are waging war against the people of this country under color of law (i.e. committing treason) and that you believe that the badges that they wear gives them the authority to do that. If you don't make that direct statement, then I will be able to show everyone that you are a coward in addition to being a traitor and a war criminal. But, that is to be expected anyways.
Incidentally, Steve has yet to edit any of your postings. They contain too many important admissions, but I am sure that you are too stupid (and arrogant) to see that.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 17:43:27 (MDT)
This is to Yeah Right, How can you justify the pepper spraying and tear gassing the whole south section of Mile High Stadium where innocent men,women,and children,who were not doing anything but leaving the game sending some to the hospital,a police courtisy? I have been doing some reascher on police brutality after my experience in Az. and notice there is alot going around in this so called free country of ours. Strange is it not that Russia is getting more free while our country is getting more handcuffed. So to speak. I found out the other day, Here in Co. you have to be 18 yrs. to buy a pocketknife. This is down right stupid. And you and R/I think thisis a free country?
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 17:08:17 (MDT)
Just doing my monthly check-in. Once again, same shit-different day. Alec--Take your medicine. Retired--You're not alone, there are alot of your supporters sitting back and watching. This page, as well as many others which are similar, is a good eye opener to recruits. It gives great insight into how well the police are appreciated. Steve--Never mind, you'll edit it out anyway.
"Teh Editor" <Yeah, right!>
USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 16:09:14 (MDT)
For everyone who does not in Co.and want to know my joke. About a month ago Colorado State and Colorado State University, which are rivals, played their game in Mile High Stadium in Denver. Not much a football fan, I can not rember you won but the winner did not beat the other team for 13 yrs. Witnesses said only five students from that college were rushing toward the field as is college football tradition. Instead of letting the five students on the field and doing something, the police, in its wisdom, decided to pepper spray AND tear gas the south section o the stadium which most of the watchers were leaving and not causing problems. There were young and old, Men, women,and children who received the gas. Many had to go to the hospital because they have ashma(spelling?} R/I..Was all that necessary?
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 14:54:25 (MDT)
In that 'sweep', one of the most famous arrests was another little ole lady arrested for 'sweeping' leaves from her sidewalk into the street. As I recall, she got 5 days and 500 dollars. All well and good; but stupid.Citizen Target, about the above being stupid, I couldn't agree with you more. I must further add that it is also criminal on the part of the government officials, and goes against the very principles upon which the United States is founded. I believe that it was one of the founding fathers that said: the government which governs best is that which governs least. But, in 1938, the US Supreme Court decided to "legalize" tyranny when they illegally (and immorally) handed down their Erie Railroad Co. vs. Tompkins "decision" (304 U.S. 64, 82 L.Ed. 1188), and thereby paved the way for the government to routinely commit these kinds of crimes, with impunity, against the people.
The evidence on my website references this Erie Railroad Co. vs. Tompkins case and explains all of its implications, including the one I just brought up. Yet, trash like R/I/R and Bryan, have the utter nerve to call it "more legalize than I care to read," "my opinion," and "non sensical blatherings!" Does everyone reading this guestbook get the picture that R/I/R, Bryan, and others like them, are street criminals hiding behind a badge?
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 08:49:17 (MDT)
Good one, Dave ... and they probably DID beat the crowd ... to death.
Thanks for citing the incident ... I forgot to cite my last one. The 'little ole lady' crossing the street comes to you from Columbus Ohio. Some years back, Columbus engaged in a city ordinance 'sweep'. In the 'sweep', they began to crack down on people ignoring various and specifically sundry ordinances. All well and good.
In that 'sweep', one of the most famous arrests was another little ole lady arrested for 'sweeping' leaves from her sidewalk into the street. As I recall, she got 5 days and 500 dollars. All well and good; but stupid. What outraged the citizens of Columbus was the abominable treatment she received prior to the jail time and fine.
Normally, such offenses are handled strictly by mail. Columbus decided to commence handling these misdemeanors in exactly the same manner as a felony arrest.
I think I'm beginning to see the light. It no longer matters what the crime; same procedure: throw 'em to the ground, handcuff em, beat em, throw em in the slammer.. That's the right the 'police' are fighting to preserve. Even when there IS no crime: throw 'em to the ground, handcuff em, beat em, throw em in the slammer.
BTW, I noticed your other citation(s) from USA Today. Situation just gets worse and worse and worse, doesn't it ?
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 06:54:55 (MDT)
Question: Why did the Denver police leave the Mile High Stadium early during the CSU-CU game? Answer: They wanted to beat the crowd.
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 05:21:49 (MDT)
Ross:
Re: your police report
Probably some of the 100 officer training program 'steppin out' on a Friday night ... except for the ones already on trial ... graduates from the previous class no doubt.
Hey, that police training really comes in handy when you're beating the crap out of little ole ladies trying to cross the street.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 21:42:18 (MDT)
Yeah, well, war is bullshit. It's unfortunate that *anyone* was in it, or is in it.
Heh, some local news from tonight: two cops are on trial for beating a dude unconscious, with their guns and batons. Luckily, some of it was caught on the cruiser video camera. Another cop shot and killed a lady in a car, of which there were no witnesses. An inmate serving a life sentence was awarded lots of money for being beaten by prison guards.
I'm tired...
Ross <homiegroy@hotmail.com>
- Friday, October 22, 1999 at 20:24:07 (MDT)
Bryan:
For a so called public servant, you are an extremely arrogant punk. I am almost dead certain that you are police just by the manner you addressed R/I/R. The manner in which you addressed R/I/R also reveals how much contempt you show the average citizen in this country. I have presented R/I/R evidence that is obligated by law to act on. Then, on top of that, R/I/R has seen further evidence from other people posting to this guestbook that supports my position. And you call that "non sensical blatherings?" You have some nerve! But that has always been the way of parasites, leeches, etc. Until the people of this country put a stop to this madness, you and your ilk will continue to bleed them dry. Heaven help the people of the community where you live. As far as "me leaving this country," I suggest that you leave. The country would certainly be much better off without you here to continue to perpetuate this fraud that calls itself our public government.
R/I/R:
You are full of it. My providing evidence through correspondence and giving you and yours the opportunity to act on it is "whining and complaining" and not working to make things better? And, why would I want to go in front of 100 people like you and Bryan? You two cannot even see evidence of obvious ongoing treason against the people of this country even when it is stuck up your noses! Instead, you two brush it off as being "my opinion!" Now, if I had the opportunity to meet with a 100 REAL police officers that truly cared about the people and this country, I would jump on that immediately. Of course, such REAL police officers would also immediately take me up on my offer to give them evidence by correspondence and not attempt to dismiss me as "a whiner and complainer," as you did.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 19:51:37 (MDT)
Ross:
... lead them less.
Yeah, I hear that loud and clear. Unfortunately, it was often true and necessary ... so many of the women and children were as well armed as the men. In the end, most of the RVN were 14 to 16. War sucks ... always did ... always will.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 16:58:29 (MDT)
That frequently asked question reminds me of something. Anyone seen Full Metal Jacket? (Kubrick, Vietnam War) "How can you shoot women and children?" "Easy, I just lead them less."
Ross <homiegroy@hotmail.com>
- Friday, October 22, 1999 at 15:25:39 (MDT)
Speaking of officer training, one of the things which the cops on 60 Minutes said was that it was taught at the police academy that snitching on another cop was the worst thing you could do. Now, *that* doesn't sound like anything that would happen in the military or anything, does it?
Well, retired/injured is the one who compared police department structure to that of the armed forces...
Now, can anyone say that being taught that (whether or not it's standard practice) is helpful towards being honest?
I look good in black. :) No, really, I do. I'm not kidding, dammit! Black is actually my favorite color..... leave me alone!!! Hehe. Bye, again.
Ross <homiegroy@hotmail.com>
- Friday, October 22, 1999 at 15:08:31 (MDT)
Ross:
Here's one for ya ...
Most Frequently Asked Question at todays 100 man officer training school:
Q. How much do you have to lead a kid riding away from you at 25 yards on a bicycle to hit him in square in the back of the head.
A. Depends on the age group: 5-10, 1 click; 10-15, use your grenade launcher.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 15:03:04 (MDT)
I was afraid of that, Citizen. :\ Just to let people know, I won't be checking this board much, as I don't really have time (too busy doing evil stuff like Amnesty International). If you have responses to my post, please post them sometime this weekend, so that I'm more likely to get them.
I'm listening to Portishead right now, which isn't really quotable. (Or anti-cop in any way, for that matter.)
Ross <homiegroy@hotmail.com>
- Friday, October 22, 1999 at 14:59:02 (MDT)
Ross:
I'm sorry, Ross ... you can't post here anymore ... you're sane.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 14:51:46 (MDT)
Heh, I'm kinda back.
I'ze got some things to say, yo.
First, I hope that everyone wore their black today. :)
Second, retired/injured, you seem to not know what you're saying. You say that you don't support corrupt cops, and then assert that every cop is a hard worker. (This is from a while ago. (Not an exact quote.)) It seems that everything anyone has to say, you just can't believe.
Some cop stories:
Someone I know was driving around a rich write community, with a friend. He was in his Honda Civic. He gets pulled over by a cop, and asks "What's the problem, officer?". The cop replies, "I don't think that you belong here." The person says, "Excuse me?". The cop replies, "Maybe you should leave." He walks back to his patrol car. The friend drives around town some more, while being followed closely by that cop. He makes a couple stops, just to piss off the cop.
Now, how would *you* explain the behavior of this cop? (Hint: in this town, Mercedes and similar cars are the most popular, by far.)
Another cop story: A friend is in a bar in Oklahoma. His friend is drunk, and not quite "with it". The friend, being not quite "with it", says to two guys in the bar, some variation on the "only steers and queers... and you don't have horns..." thing. The two guys start to beat the shit out of him. My friend, feeling obligated for some reason, decided to join in the fight and help his buddy. Soon after, the cops came. It was the sheriff, a short fat man. I forget exactly how he did it, but the result is the same. The cop beat up my friend (the one trying to help his friend), causing loss of teeth, among other things. The next day, the cop had him pay several hundred dollars, and then let him go. Since that incident, he has NEVER heard of his arrest, and there is apparently no record of it.
What do *you* think happened? (Hint: I've heard that "extortion money" is/was popular in the south.)
Another cop story: A friend (who was a minor at the time) was smoking pot (aka marijuana) somewhere or other. He was seen by a cop, or something like that. Chased a little ways through the woods. When the cop got to him, surprise, there was someone else besides the cop! The cop apparently had a friend, who happened to be > 6' tall and about 200lbs, like the cop himself. Apparently, they felt that both of them were needed to restrain him. One had his foot/knee/some part of leg on my friend's neck. The friend said, "
Do *you* think that my friend ended up with a parole officer? (Hint: I've heard that judges aren't usually very trusting of teenage scum, but more so of cops.)
Yet another story: Someone I know was driving on a two lane road (but still major for the area). They found themselves behind a vehicle which was going too slow for their tastes. So, when in a passing zone on straightaway, they signalled, and passed the car. This part of the road being a straightaway, you could see for quite a ways. Well, there was a cop at least a quarter mile (more, I think) down the road, who waited, and then gave the person driving the passing car a ticket, assuming that he passed illegally. (Even though he didn't, nor could the cop tell.) In court, for disputing the ticket (who my acquaintance missed a day of work for), the cop was asking around, if people "know this xx guy". Lucky for my buddy, some people *did* know him, which resulted in his character being unquestionable.
Do *you* think that the cop was doing his job, or being overzealous for his own interests?
One more story (a short one): someone was driving. A bird hit their windshield, and flew over the car, hitting the car behind them, which happened to be a patrol car. The cop pulled her over, and attempted to get her for "reckless driving". Hmm.
I think that the thing which was on 60 Minutes a couple weeks ago shows that corruption is widespread, and that it's not just my imagination, as some people (such as retired/injured) would have me believe. "Oh, those cops just made it up." Yeah....
Now, if I can give all these personal anecdotes about bad cop incidents, while I'm still in high school, and have never been arrested, don't you think that something's wrong? "Ya motherfuckers..."-from "Coppers", on Rancid's Life Won't Wait (really good album, I suggest a listen)
I'ze got some things to say, yo.
First, I hope that everyone wore their black today. :)
Second, retired/injured, you seem to not know what you're saying. You say that you don't support corrupt cops, and then assert that every cop is a hard worker. (This is from a while ago. (Not an exact quote.)) It seems that everything anyone has to say, you just can't believe.
Some cop stories:
Someone I know was driving around a rich write community, with a friend. He was in his Honda Civic. He gets pulled over by a cop, and asks "What's the problem, officer?". The cop replies, "I don't think that you belong here." The person says, "Excuse me?". The cop replies, "Maybe you should leave." He walks back to his patrol car. The friend drives around town some more, while being followed closely by that cop. He makes a couple stops, just to piss off the cop.
Now, how would *you* explain the behavior of this cop? (Hint: in this town, Mercedes and similar cars are the most popular, by far.)
Another cop story: A friend is in a bar in Oklahoma. His friend is drunk, and not quite "with it". The friend, being not quite "with it", says to two guys in the bar, some variation on the "only steers and queers... and you don't have horns..." thing. The two guys start to beat the shit out of him. My friend, feeling obligated for some reason, decided to join in the fight and help his buddy. Soon after, the cops came. It was the sheriff, a short fat man. I forget exactly how he did it, but the result is the same. The cop beat up my friend (the one trying to help his friend), causing loss of teeth, among other things. The next day, the cop had him pay several hundred dollars, and then let him go. Since that incident, he has NEVER heard of his arrest, and there is apparently no record of it.
What do *you* think happened? (Hint: I've heard that "extortion money" is/was popular in the south.)
Another cop story: A friend (who was a minor at the time) was smoking pot (aka marijuana) somewhere or other. He was seen by a cop, or something like that. Chased a little ways through the woods. When the cop got to him, surprise, there was someone else besides the cop! The cop apparently had a friend, who happened to be > 6' tall and about 200lbs, like the cop himself. Apparently, they felt that both of them were needed to restrain him. One had his foot/knee/some part of leg on my friend's neck. The friend said, "
Do *you* think that my friend ended up with a parole officer? (Hint: I've heard that judges aren't usually very trusting of teenage scum, but more so of cops.)
Yet another story: Someone I know was driving on a two lane road (but still major for the area). They found themselves behind a vehicle which was going too slow for their tastes. So, when in a passing zone on straightaway, they signalled, and passed the car. This part of the road being a straightaway, you could see for quite a ways. Well, there was a cop at least a quarter mile (more, I think) down the road, who waited, and then gave the person driving the passing car a ticket, assuming that he passed illegally. (Even though he didn't, nor could the cop tell.) In court, for disputing the ticket (who my acquaintance missed a day of work for), the cop was asking around, if people "know this xx guy". Lucky for my buddy, some people *did* know him, which resulted in his character being unquestionable.
Do *you* think that the cop was doing his job, or being overzealous for his own interests?
One more story (a short one): someone was driving. A bird hit their windshield, and flew over the car, hitting the car behind them, which happened to be a patrol car. The cop pulled her over, and attempted to get her for "reckless driving". Hmm.
I think that the thing which was on 60 Minutes a couple weeks ago shows that corruption is widespread, and that it's not just my imagination, as some people (such as retired/injured) would have me believe. "Oh, those cops just made it up." Yeah....
Now, if I can give all these personal anecdotes about bad cop incidents, while I'm still in high school, and have never been arrested, don't you think that something's wrong?
... ummm ... sane persons don't post here ... don't consider yourself an exception ... you aren't. Claiming sanity, by definition, means you aren't.
You've had many chances to show your "proof" and to explain your side IN ENGLISH, but you have continued to hide behind a bunch of rambling crap that makes absolutely no sense at all. That's it---I have tried SO HARD to do something good with the people on here who are cop hater, but I will not try any more. It's blatantly obvious that most people on here have NO desire to make things better. They just want to complain, bitch, moan, and generally continue with their disrespectful comments without any desire to improve anything. You people (and you know who I'm talking to) are part of the problem---why don't you become part of the solution? You just AMAZE me at your ignorance and stupidity. I would like to say that this is my last posting here, but when I return in 3 days I'll need to post a few more comments I'm sure to defend the 25 paragraphs of crap written in a variety of colors by good old Alec. Copy and paste, copy and paste, copy and paste. Geez dude--get a life, would you?
Regarding R/I/R's "invitation," only correspondence is appropriate at this point. R/I/R has my website address and is welcome to refer anyone he wants to it. Beyond that, he can give those other police officers my email address and they can communicate with me that way if they have any questions about what is on my website. If those police officers request written evidence, I will be more than happy to provide it. If it comes to that, arrangements can be made at that time for me to provide the necessary evidence to those officers.
If I arranged payment for air transportation and hotel, would you speak before a group of police officers to explain your thoughts and point of view on this whole "secret agent", "courts of attornment", "fraudulent, treasonous", and "so-called police officer" stuff? All of your statements that you have been repeating over and over and over again---would you be willing to say these things to a group of about 100 cops and then have a question and answer session? Let me know.
So, R/I/R is up to his old tricks again, including those of twisting my words and attempting to put words in my mouth. It never seems to end. But anyways, onto the meat of this posting.
Let me summarize, from the legal point of view, the problem with the fraudulent court system of attornment in this country: it is controlled by a group of communist aristocracies known as the various State Bar Associations and the American Bar Association. The entire practice is illegal because the United States Constitution requires that the United States be a republic (not a democracy, Mr. Robert D. Holder). What, in summary, is the result of the presence of this fraudulent court system of attornment in our once great country? Nothing other than the countless examples, and more besides, of people in this country being butchered, that Citizen Target and others, including myself, have posted to this guestbook. Does anyone believe that the police, by themselves, could get away with so much? The courts in this country stand behind the police and all of their brutality. I must further add that these are not isolated examples. They form a systematic pattern of the government routinely butchering the people of this country. Stated another way, they constitute absolute proof that the government is waging war against the people of this country. That is TREASON.
Mr. Robert D. Holder, if you feel so enlightened to tell me that my statements about what recourse the people of this country have against this ongoing treason are "intimidation tactics, done in anger and with emotion, threatening someone's life, etc.," then you tell me what recourse the people of this country have against a government that has, in its entirety, turned against them and that has and is continuing to commit treason (and war) against them. Make sure you carefully read the Declaration of Independence before you respond. I expect an immediate response from you.
Now, for some important details about how the fraudulent court systems of attornment in this country function.
There is no trial by jury in those courts; that is a clever and cruel hoax. Remember "jury instructions?" Does anyone here believe that for one microsecond that those "instructions" are going to allow the jury to remain impartial and unbiased? Remember that all judges are biased since they have a vested interest in protecting the closed private clubs they belong to, and in protecting their "pay" which they take from you through so called fines and taxes! Remember that absolute power corrupts absolutely. Finally, remember that the United States Constitution demands that the United States be a republic, which means that control of the government in this country must be open to all of the citizens. This includes, but is not limited to, running for the office of judge. The United States Constitution explicitly states that nothing more than age, citizenship and residency requirements can be a condition for running for any office in this country. Clearly, being required to be a member of some "Bar Association" goes well beyond those bounds imposed by the Constitution.
Judges and attorneys routinely twist and "interpret" the law however they please, to wit:
2)You are obviously a person who knows nothing about case law decisions, as well as the "spirit of the law" and how it applies itself in real life. You quote all of these laws like everything is followed in black and white just becuase it's written. There is the fantasy-land of reading the law books, and there is the reality of actually applying those laws in real life. I'm just telling you this since you obviously live in fantasy-land. Basically, you don't know what you're talking about. And there is no way I'm going to take the time to justify why. There isn't room for two people in your strange little world.
The United States Supreme Court, where possible, interprets congressional enactments so as to avoid raising serious constitutional questions (United States Supreme Court, Cheek vs. U.S., 112 L Ed 2d 617).
To answer R/I/R's question about me having been doped up, the answer is no. In fact, I have never been so called convicted of anything in their so called courts. But, they did try to railroad me into a so called conviction and they did look hard for an excuse to dope me up, and not because I was violent. Those courts try to pull their garbage on anyone who doesn't live, breathe and feel the lie that the United States is "the bastion of the free world and that you have to do your part," including:
(2) cough up "fines" whenever you get assaulted (so called ticketed) by police and "hauled into court."
(3) be "gainfully employed" which means "play the game" and get totally disrespected as a person on a daily basis.
(4) "ooze of intentions to want to get married, or to want a girlfriend or boyfriend, and to want to be part of one big happy family" (NOT!).
(5) ooh and ahh at ugly pieces of flesh that people have the nerve to call "beautiful boys or girls." Take your pick, it doesn't matter these days due to "nondiscrimination."
(6) "go out drinking with the workplace buddies" and perhaps suffer some kind of "criminal prosecution" as a result, all the while being expected to "ooze of how you were such a bad boy."
(7) be a member of some sort of hokey "social club" such as the Lion's Club, Kiwanis, Rotary Club, etc., and be ready to put on the good act of "how charitable a person you are," complete with all of the waste of your time and resources that all of that entails.
(8) perhaps get murdered along the lines of the countless examples that Citizen Target and others have provided.
(9) perhaps get robbed of entire estates as per the example that I posted.
(10) etc.
How do I know? Because I have personally experienced it all, over the past 20 years! Furthermore, from those 20 years, I know at least a hundred people who have experienced exactly the same crap. But, let me guess, R/I/R wants to believe that me and the more than hundred people that I know are all "whackos." R/I/R lives, breathes and feels the lie that the United States is the "bastion of the free world and that everyone must do their part." R/I/R has no compassion, no respect for and no sense of how to show respect to others. Everything about R/I/R is canned and is in strict conformance with the dictates of this fraud that calls itself our public government. R/I/R is completely delusional. He will do anything to justify this fraud that has invaded everyone's life, even bring forth absurdities, twist around what people say and put words in people's mouths. R/I/R is incapable of facing the truth of what the government today in the United States is.
Rubbish. Your 'early post' had promise. You didn't deliver. I did. You didn't live up to your words. I did.
Take Coach Chuck Knolls' suggestion and get on with your life's work; in whatever field you choose. He's a winner. You aren't.
"The first thing I would like to say, and I want to make sure this is clear, is that I
would NEVER back up, support, encourage, or approve of a dirty cop. Please
don't ever think that's what I am doing here, because I will not ever do it. I have
turned in a dirty cop once in my career (different department than mine), and I
will do it again. There simply is no room for those types of people in law
enforcement."
Like I said, I'm sorry that you have so much anger in your life. But you will only continue to have that anger and resentment unless you make the decision to open your mind and control your own destiny a little more. Life's too short to stay angry for 26 years at one group of people. I can't even imagine what it would do to me if I held the anger that you hold now if I began at age 7 and continued until now---26 years later. I would probably give myslef an ulcer, cancer, and other illnesses from keeping myself in such a state. I hope you will someday find the peace that you are looking for.
No alleged police officer, posting here, since March 1999, has made any more than passing reference to the substance of Steve's Web Page. Ignorance and apathy; they don't know and they don't care ... it's not their job.
Unacceptable.
Again, thanks for the page. I hope I didn't clutter it up too much. Feel free to delete ... it's your guestbook !!!
Have you ever wondered why I'm the only police officer on this entire Guestbook to stick around this long? Think about that---why have I chosen to stay here this long, and attempt to have useful dialogue with you and people who share similar views as you? Have you come up with the answer yet? I didn't think so, so I'll tell you. The reason is simple--I know that there are bad cops out there and I know how to stop them. I know "the system" very well. I also have unique access to the insides of "the system" where I will be teaching police officers classes about things I have learned since being retired. It's a very strange feeling to go from being a police officer and doing a job that you love, to being injured seriously on duty and taking a medical retirement at a young age because of that injury. I now have a different perspective on things that my former co-workers couldn't possibly have, for several reasons that I will not get into. If you really felt that you had valid complaints, and if you REALLY wanted to end police corruption and illegal police violence, then you would have tried to have conversations with me about things and pointed out things to me that would benefit your side. But instead, you and a few others have taken EVERY opportunity to come back swinging and fighting, not making an effort to make anything better and not making the slightest effort to truly get your point across. This is not something that I have noticed in one or two small postings to the Guestbook. This is something that I have learned by being involved in the Guestbook for many months now. If you go back and read the things that I have written, you will see that I have tried to get things going in the right direction. But again, at every corner and at every turn, there you (and others) are---standing at the corner like a spoiled brat waiting to throw eggs at the same guy that walks by every day and doesn't bother you. You need to grow up---no matter how old you are. I'm pretty sure that you have no desire to make things better. You and a few others simply want a forum to vent your frustrations out, and to tell your side of the story with no interest in the other side. As I said, I have done my best here. If my best wasn't good enough, then there's not a whole lot that I can say since I did give it a try. My time on this Guestbook is almost up, as I have come to the conclusion that some people don't want things to change--including you. You're happy with the way things are now, and you are happy as long as you have something to complain about. How can I possibly have productive discussions with you and other that are like-minded? The answer is, I can't. So that is why I will shortly leave this Guestbook for good, so that you can go back to your ranting and raving, pretending that you want things to improve. But now I know better---deep down, you don't want anything thing to change. You like things just the way they are. How sad.
2)he live 5-10 miles from there [More like 25. But
being close gives me a better perspective of the incident than most people
have. --steve]
now i dont want to assume anything but does he or you, but
are you for what happened there... [If I understand
you, you're asking if I'm glad it happened. I'm not. I'm disgusted by it,
but I'm even more disgusted by the special interests who are using it as a
platform to push their policies down my throat, and I'm disgusted by the
lawsuits related to Columbine. Most of all, I'm disgusted by the fact that
this is getting so much coverage. Where was the media when a student of
mine was gunned down 4 years ago? Of course, he was poor and black.
--steve]
well i dont know, kinda ironic, kinda weird...
anyway off of that....if you all notice we go in circles about what we
say...either if we were for cops or not,its never going to end
you cant say a bunch of shit and back it up if you know what i mean
if you are a cop and you say you are there are good cops then put your
co-workers in check if they get out of line, those of you pissed off...
you know typing and ralling around like a bunch of pigs (no pun intended)
is not going to get you anywhere...i dont know,it seems as if some shit head
brought up a touchy subject and brought 2 world together to fight, while we both
could find a way to come together and help stop COMMUNITY VIOLENCE (community meaning
cops and civilians, young or old) Cops cant say shit if they are the ones taking advantage of their
authority and the people cannot say shit unless they are involed with whats going on with their community,
like meetings and and reading about council meetings coming up.....Some of you WILL say ok ok this 18 year old
girl is full of it...ok lets see i want to be a cop, so i make sure i study the good and the bad
cops, to know who to avoid and who to lok up to... now i am a civilian as of now so i get hands on
with my community and see what i can do to help stop fuckin 12 year old terrorizing 80 year old...
all im saying is back your shit up, oh and having a website that is very cloudy and vauge dose not
help any..... [What's cloudy and vague about it?
--steve]
SEEING AND BEEN THROUGH EACH SIDE,
FUTURE COP OF SAN JOSE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was shot at 5 times before I testified. After my arrest and conviction, I was shot at only once, shortly after, ... a warning ... it missed by far too much to be anything but a warning.
I survived to testify for 10 more years. Believe it: the 'blue' didn't like it ... and still seek retaliation.
These are R/I/Rs blue heroes; these are the 36+ kills he defends; these are the substance of Steve's Web Page.
No police officer, posting here, since March 1999, has made any more than passing reference to the substance of Steve's Web Page. Ignorance and apathy; they don't know and they don't care ... it's not their job.
Unacceptable.
Kim Groves: Shot to death
Congratulations, R/I/R !!! One death penalty and one conviction out of 36+ kills. Care to apply that to the other 200,000 civilian victims ?
Note that one death penalty does not equal one kill. The above officer, and no doubt R/I/R, is well acquainted with multiple deaths.
You'll just have to wait for the other 6 EDP kills and wonder ... did he get all 18 or only 12.
Before R/I/R ever posted I had substantiated 4 of Steve's and around 6 others IN THIS GUEST BOOK. Before R/I/R ever posted, I had researched all but a few of Steve's 36+ kills. During his tenure, I substantiated Vojtas and Cooperstein, AMONG OTHERS ... and R/I/R still claims he never heard of them.
Your score is ZERO, R/I/R. Let's see: never heard of Joe Trimboli; never heard of Michael Dowd; never heard of Ken Eurell; never heard of George Terwilliger; never heard of Rufus King; and never heard of Nathaniel Gorham ... and could care less about any of them.
I've posted almost nothing of my research in the law library ... but it confirms ... and includes BOTH SIDES. R/I/R says 'don't read/hear the news media', they only tell one side. R/I/R says 'don't go to the law library ... you're not a lawyer'. R/I/R says READ/HEAR BOTH SIDES ... which requires the testimony. I've read both sides ... LONG before I ever posted on this guestbook. And I continue to read BOTH SIDES.
R/I/R is full of MacBullshit. You don't need to believe me, just read his MacBullshit splattered below and, in all probability, to be soon splattered above. You will never get the 'truth' from the police. You will never see their reports without a subpoena. You will never 'hear' from the police during an investigation (common practice). You will never 'hear' from the police during trial (common practice). You will never 'hear' from the police after trial, after adjudication (common practice).
When will you hear from the police ? Never.
You might 'hear' from the police when the first bullet goes by, spinning or tumbling like a bumble bee gone crazy and overweight (and only if they miss on the first shot), as I did. You might 'hear' from the police when the report follows the bumblebee, as I did.
Until then, until they 'come for you'; study R/I/Rs stock and standard MacBullshit. It may well be the last time you ever read/hear from the police.
From my very seasoned and very extensive experience with the police, the only thing I listen for when I'm any where near the police ... is ... 'click'
William Hankston: Shot in the back of the head
Edwin Sheehan: Shot to death
I'm beginning to think Alec was right. You must work for the Iraqis. Even
Slobodans' men aren't that dumb.
Halleluiah !!! Here's one for R/I/R !!! Becker got more than a reprimand and a hand shake.
So much for Number Nine.
Hill - ex cop, cardboard license plate, exits car with gun in waistband; Niles Ohio.
Ever been in Niles Ohio ? HINT: Nothing but cows, grass, cows, and cowshit. Cop kills ex-cop.
In Niles, Ohio, most of the vehicles don't even have fenders or doors, let alone any sign of a license plate. A good shoot ? Maybe.
O do tell us, R/I/R, was this ex-cop an EDP ? Or was this shoot just a terrible misunderstanding ?
Hell, I'm not even gonna count it ... just mention it in passing.
Vega and Rosario - handcuffed facedown on floor, 14 shots each
Split second timing by those intrepid MacMorons stopped these two dangerous, unarmed perps from escaping by chewing their way through the floor with their teeth (assuming, of course, that they still had them after the arrest ... doubtful).
Definitely a couple of EDPs. Any fool knows you can't gum your way through a floor !!!
Do a search on Vela, the next EDP R/I/R identifies: research what happened to 10 year old Freddie Vela. Yes sir, split second police training sure prevented Freddie from ever entering a 'life of crime'. Great police work, in R/I/Rs' opinion.
Search for Jones: Willie Jones. More great police work defended by R/I/R. Yep, Willie Jones, another EDP, should have mailed the money to Houston and walked there from Nashville. He'd probably still have his farm today if not for that tremendous police training and split second work.
Search for Gammage: Jonny Gammage; another unarmed civilian beaten to death as a result of great police training. You'll love how R/I/R describes him as an EDP.
Search for Peters. Yes sir, split second police training sure stopped an unarmed 11 year old boy from leaving his apartment building on New Years Day. Nice work, MacMorons.
Search for Conn. Conn was the 15 year old friend accompanying Peters, above. He didn't make the sidewalk either. Good work. I'll bet split second police work prevented him from getting the door open.
Yes sir: 19 billion burgers served by the Fraternal Order
of MacBullshit. Nice work, fellas, your only 5 per cent off.
Let's see. Counting 5 or 6 million real criminals, you've only completely screwed the lives of ... 200,000 civilians ... that'd be 5 per cent ... since I know you can't figure it out with help.
Well, hell, pretty good ... that's only the size of a small city !!! Nice work.
His summary: 50 per cent or more of these victims are EDPs. The police executed their
training to the best of their ability. They were forced to rely
on their split second training to survive.
Again, a rehash of '2 incidents' ... California incidents.
I'll bet them good ole boy sheriffs', deputies, and Feds are having
a merry ole time fishing on their new lake, formerly owned by that
notorious EDP, Donald Scott.
Case 2: didn't drop his gun fast enough ... well, hell, ditto to Case 1,
except, Donald Carlson did survive ... what a whacko, ruined a perfectly
good shoot by surviving.
Yes sir; don't ask questions; don't interrogate a suspect; don't investigate
the circumstances before hand ... just bust in and shoot the damn whackos
... shoot em before they give you that crap about the Constitution, law,
and court orders.
I've posted these before, but the 'creme de la creme' either
can't read, can't understand, or doesn't care. The 'creme de la creme' claims he really likes to dig into a subject
to 'get the truth'. MacBullshit.
Use your browser and do a search on Trimboli for THIS PAGE. On the sixth sequential search, you'll find all you need to know about Trimboli. You'll also get a glaring example of how much R/I/R really cares about innocent civilians.
HINT: ZERO.
A suggested motto for the Fraternal Order of MacBullshit: 20 billion burgers bought and paid for; 19 billion served. Close Enough; We're Only 5 Per Cent Off.
Try that in the marketplace and watch your price per share match your intelligence: ZERO.
Since you asked Robert the question of where the statement "for whatever reason" is, I feel that I should answer that since it is talking about me. My answer to this is simple--if you are looking for the EXACT words of "for whatever reason", you won't find them. And this means yes, you are correct, you did not write those exact words. However, I feel that you are being a little too picky here because the words that you DID write are strikingly similar to those words. You said that I could be "legally gunned down wherever they might be found". Well, that's close enough in my book to "for whatever reason" because the end result is the same--you see me, you gun me down, end of story. You can play semantics with the words all you want, but the meaning is crystal clear. And as I told you previously, you were treading on some very thin ice there and I would never hesitate to file criminal charges against you if you were to take that any further. Any non-police officer citizen would most likely take that as a direct threat, qualifying for "terrorist threats" (422PC) quite easily. You also said to read the Declaration of Independence and it will back up your claim that it is okay to gun me down. And you also said that a Washington State Superior Court judge quoted this same law in 1994. Again Alex, you are extrapolating too many things out of these words and you are simply very wrong. Nowhere in the Declaration does it say that it is okay to gun me down. A guy sitting at his computer writing his opinion on an Internet Guestbook! If you think the Declaration of Independence says it's okay to gun me down because of my free speech on the Internet, then, geez, what can I say? And if you think a Superior Court Judge is also going to say that it's okay to gun down a guy who is exercising free speech by sitting at his computer and writing comments on a web page, then that is insane. I know that a Superior Court judge, or ANY judge for that matter, would never say such a thing or he would be removed from the bench. I also find it extremely ironic that you are quoting a Superior Court Judge as if his word means something to you, when a big chunk of what you are always saying is that Judges and Courts are all part of this massive conspiracy and coverup. Again, you have done what you always do---you use the words of people to your advantage no matter who they are. You twist them around to make them fit your personal agenda. On one hand, judges are bad and they are all part of the problem. But suddenly, a judge says something that you like so now you are quoting him like he has some authority. Well which one is it?? You can't have it both ways! And this goes to the guts of my whole problem with your arguments. You continue to rattle off the same thing, over and over and over again like a broken record. Yet you still don't offer a REAL solution for anything. You say to quietly spread the word so that people will know the truth. And then, here's the good part, refer them to your web page! Hah!! Please dude, come on. Nobody can read your web page--it makes no sense at all. Maybe an attorney can read it, but even if an attorney could read it, he would need to go to a law library to look up the references that you cite about every 3rd or 4th word in every sentence. It's like a huge puzzle that would need to be put together and would take a "dream team" of lawyers a couple of months to figure out. And furthermore, you talk about police "taking action" and arresting people, such as Ira Reiner. And you had the nerve and the gall to suggest that *I* should be arresting him. Based upon what? The gospel according to Alec?? I don't think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah--you say to "look at my evidence". What evidence dude? You don't have any. All you have is page upon page of legal mumbo jumbo that nobody can read or understand what it is you're talking about. I don't even know why I'm writing to you. You're mind is like a broken record---totally incapable of independent thought. You've got stuff up there that doesn't make sense and now you admit that they guy who wrote it you have never met and never talked to?? Where did that material come from anyway? "UFO Abductees Monthly"?
You know Alec, there is a chance that what you are TRYING to say may actually have a ring to it. I remember a guy that was on a talk radio program once who wrote a book about our government, and I vaguely remember something about the Federal Reserve being illegal and a couple of other things. This was a few years ago, so I don't really remember what the specifics of that program was. If I could find the book, I would love to read it so that I could find out this type of information. So it is entirely possible that some of what you are saying is true. HOWEVER---the manner in which you are attempting to get this information out will NEVER work. Do you understand that? It simply won't work. I think the person who wrote recently that your web page is "dense" with the information was being nice to you. I would simply say it's a bunch of crap. Look at it from the viewpoint of Joe Citizen---when they hop onto a web page, they're not gonna want to look through page after page of legal mumbo-jumbo with case reference information that doesn't make sense. It might as well be written in Chinese for all we care---we can make just as much sense out of it. Not only that, but for some reason, you have taken this information WAY too many steps beyond the facts. I simply don't understand why you feel there are such big conspiracies under every rock. And why do you think the police are secret agents? You said that I made up the "secret agent" stuff---no I didn't. I got the secret agent stuff DIRECTLY off your web site. I forget which page it was, but I believe it might have been the one where you talk about the police officer that pulled you over and you wrote a lengthy response to that on official paperwork. Don't quote me on that--I'm not positive that's where I saw it, but I do know that you specifically refer to the police as "secret agents"--so don't say that I made it up. If anything YOU'RE the one who makes things up. For example, this is what you wrote about me in your most recent posting to the Guestbook: "Just look at how R/I/R began to attack my character
immediately after I refused to swallow the lie that "the United States is the bastion of the free world" and all
of the rest of the propanganda that goes along with it." You say that I attacked your character after you refused to swallow the lie that "the United States is the bastion of the free world". You put that in quotes, which looks to me like I'm the one who said that. This is not true, and you know it. Those words in quotes were never said by me. You know how I know they were never said by me? Because I have no idea what the word "bastion" means, so I would never use it in a sentence. Again, you continue to twist words and phrases around to make them fit your personal agenda instead of just sticking to the facts.
In talking about the Courts in our great country, you write: "They assault you physically and attempt to dope
you up with poison when you refuse to swallow that lie about the United States, or when they otherwise
happen to find you displeasing to their whims." Alec--what are you talking about? There isn't a court in this country that will "poison" you or physically assault you just because you don't "please their whims". What on earth are you talking about? This is exactly why you will never be taken seriously. Even the "bad guys" in jail know that the courts don't "poison" you with dope and "physically assault" you for not "pleasing their whims". The only thing I could think of that you might be talking about here is if a suspect if found to be violent and mentally insane or unstable and is deemed so by a doctor and psychologist. Then, maybe the person will be taken to a "Correctional Medical Facility" (Psychiatric Prison) where they will be given meds for mental disorders. Is that what happened to you? Is that why you think the courts were "poisoning" you? I'm just asking the question--not making any accusations.
See what I mean ?
Like trimming hundreds of cited daily NYC incidents down to 2 ? Like
skipping 49 states and most of New York ? The point was: it's endemic. But
that doesn't fit R/I/Rs personal agenda, does it ?
Like attributing a 'police response' to himself after I've read it almost
verbatim in case after case after case; state after state after state ?
The point was: it IS a stock and standard
police response. Just because it happens to also be *R/I/Rs RESPONSE* doesn't
make it any less a standard police response. But that doesn't fit R/I/Rs
personal agenda either, does it ?
I respond to R/I/Rs posts for others: so they'll know he's handing them
a fancy donut full of explosives. R/I/R is of no interest to me whatsoever.
His crap doesn't stand alone and it must not go unchallenged. There are only
3/4 million morons calling themselves police. There are 245 million civilians
who don't deserve to be killed for traffic violations ... let alone for 'looking at
a policeman' or 'not looking at a policeman'. These alleged police are losers and
woefully outnumbered. They need to be replaced ... regularly ... every four years.
And ... they need to be dismissed WITHOUT QUESTION for the slightest impropriety.
As Coach Chuck Knoll said of ALL his players ... AND HIMSELF ... '... it's time they
got on with their lifes work'. Clearly, football is NOT a lifes work; it's just a
game. Clearly, police 'work' is NOT a lifes work; it's just a game to the police;
but it's no game to the Coaches. RDH, you're a coach; so is Alec; so is Disgusted;
and, by God, so am I. Judges, lawyers, prosecutors and police are players and only players.
They're a team ... a bad team. We need all new players: regularly. Period.
I got my first court order before R/I/R was born. I got it from a guy
in R/I/Rs 'store', R/I/Rs 'biz' who WAS a JUDGE, WAS a LAWYER, and WAS
an 'officer of the court' ... BTW, an 'officer of the court' R/I/R is
not ... R/I/R is a burger flipper and the 'burger's are
the Constitution, the laws, the case history, and 'FINDINGS OF THE COURT'.
That order is signed by the management: a JUDGE. The DEFENSE gets a copy
and signs for it. The PROSECUTION gets a copy and signs for it.
That product is not *my evidence*. That product was and IS a court order and
that is LAW SPECIFIC and by the Constitution, the laws and case history
must be obeyed. It's the 'stores' product. I paid for a product that was never delivered. R/I/R is fighting for *HIS*
right *NOT* to deliver the product. To quote R/I/R, " ... That's ludicrous---absolutely ludicrous."
R/I/Rs idea of 'running the store' is to deliver bullshit
instead of burgers.
R/I/Rs 'biz' needs a new name. R/I/Rs 'store' needs a new title. That title
should be MacBullshit; indeed, the Fraternal Order of MacBullshit.
R/I/R doesn't give a shit about the product; it's just 'blah, blah, blah' in his eyes.
He's in synchronized lock-step with Officer Dan who wants to lock up Steve and
shut down the web site. He's in synchronized lock-step with Officer Tim who wants
to kill Steve. He's in synchronized lock-step with Officer Jeff Cooperstein who
wants to kill someone: anyone, anytime, for any reason. R/I/R just won't admit it,
doesn't know it, and/or doesn't care.
Hundreds and hundreds of cases bear this out; and R/I/R chooses to ignore them. R/I/Rs
blatantly and patently false statement is testimony that he has not read Steve's 36+ kills.
R/I/R chooses to ignore the 36+ kills to which LESS THAN A HANDFUL lead to so much as a reprimand;
let alone any arrest, trial, and conviction. The
same officers were sent out into the streets to kill
again.
Let me ask you this, rdh: Do you think for a second that any one of the 36+ kills was
the officers first kill ? his only kill ? his last kill ? Do you even care ... as long
as it wasn't you that was killed ?
R/I/R considers my rights, your rights, or anybody elses rights to be no more valuable
than a 'burger' ... in syncronized lock-step with Officer Dan, Officer Tim, Officer
Jeff Cooperstein, Officer Michael Dowd, Officer John Vojtas, et cetera, et cetera, ad
finitum ... which includes the 3 officers in the store that have denied me for 26 years
and counting ... and the 50 officers protecting and defending these 3. R/I/R believes
only in 'we the police' in this land 'of the police, for the police, and by the police'.
R/I/R simply won't admit it, doesn't know it, and/or doesn't care.
MacOfficers all ... serving up only MacBullshit ... in your neighborhood, mine, and
everybody elses.
Sad. R/I/Rs MacDonalds example is an excellent dissertation on why
todays' MacPolice are not effective.
In response to my comment, you wrote: "The above is the police response to the substantiation you request." The reason I say that you need to put things in perspective is because of several reasons. First of all, you are comparing apples and oranges. The words that I wrote were addressing something completely different, yet you are applying those words to a question that was asked tonight by a different person on a different topic. Second of all, you say that this is the "police response" as if this is some sort of official word that was said in a press release to an official and on-going case. Come on now---don't try to make things look different than they really are. This was not a "police response" and you know it. This was *MY* response on an Internet web page Guestbook to a comment that was being made, and I was making my own comment in response to that. It was definitely NOT a "police response". That's one of the problems I am finding with people here that want to argue with me. If you don't agree with me and you want to argue, that's fine--I have no problem with that. But some people tend to take somebody's words and either twist them around or plop them down in the middle of something irrelevant just to make it fit their own personal agenda. So much credibility is lost when that happens. And finally, if you go back to that original "blah blah" comment that I made and you read the entire paragraph, you would see the context in which I wrote it, and that I said I was not trying to be disrespectful to anyone. I still stick to my comment 100% today just as much as I did the day I wrote it. I think you're missing the point, because you don't WANT to see the point. I am going to give this another shot at explaining this but I have a feeling your mind is closed up as tightly as Fort Knox and you are totally unwilling to stretch your mind a little bit to see something from someone else's perspective. Yeah, it hurts a little to do that sometimes, and not everybody has equipped themselves for personal growth (which is another reason our country is so screwed up right now--but that's a topic for another web page). But I'm asking you a favor tonight, to just read what I have to say with an open mind. If in the end, your opinion has not changed then that's okay--at least you gave it a shot and I thank you for that. But this is what I am trying to say by my original comment that you quoted in your last posting. Try to imagine it in this type of situation: Let's suppose you are an employee of McDonald's, and you're working the cash register. All day long for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, you work at McDonald's and pretty much do the same thing. After a while, you start to get a "feel" for the customers. You also see your regular customers come in there every day--some of them you like, some of them you don't like. And if you're really good, you can actually start predicting what some people are going to order just by their appearance. How can you do that? I don't know--just experience from working at that restaurant for so long. And let's also suppose that once in a blue moon, you have the kind of customer that comes in and instead of just ordering their meal from you, they begin a discussion with you about the safety of foods in the fast food industry. This customer starts telling you that they better be sure that the hamburger grill is set to 140 degrees, and the beef patties better not be sitting out of the refrigerator for more than 5 minutes or this disease and that disease and bacteria will start forming on the meat, and then this customer tells you that he can see that your french fries are obviously being cooked in oil that he feels in not fresh because he knows what the federal food safety standards are, and then he sees somebody behind the counter take an empty cup and pour soda into it and then that employee hands the customer the drink as well as their change from the money they gave them--but he tells you that he knows you're not allowed to handle food AND money at the same time because of the germs it will spread because he knows that Federal Fast Food law #456-CI-2 specifically prohibits that from happening. Whew---that's a lot of stuff for a customer to tell you----the cash register guy---when you just want to take the food order and get on to the next customer. But check this out---the customer that was just pointing out all of these different things to you---HE'S RIGHT!! for some reason, this dude knows his fast food regulations. Who knows why he knows it, but he just does. But you, as the cash register guy at McDonald's--what are you doing as this guy is rattling off all of these violations, and codes, and regulations, and all of this other stuff? You're sitting there thinking to yourself, "I wish this guy would shut up and just order his damn food", and in the meantime, what is it you're actually hearing him say to you? This is what you're hearing him tell you: "Blah Blah Blah Blah". That's because you, as the cash register guy, don't really care about what this guy is saying. You know what your job is, and you are doing it just fine. This guy obviously has a problem with whatever is going on in the store, but he's talking to the wrong guy, because you, the cash register guy, don't give a shit about anything that this guy is telling you.
That may not be the best comparison in the world for me to make, but it's all I can come up with right now. My point is simply this---if a cop is approached by somebody totally and completely out of the blue, and that somebody begins talking about the police being secret agents of the Federal Reserve, or says that they should go arrest the District Attorney of Los Angeles County, or any one of a number of things like that, the police officer in all likelihood is NOT going to take the guy seriously, and he also will do whatever he can to get rid of the guy and send him on his way to go bother someone else. Why? Is he doing this because he's part of some big conspiracy to keep all of these things secret? Oh please, I hope you don't really think that. If you think a cop is part of some big conspiracy like this, then I don't think there is anything in the world that I, or anybody else for that matter, can say to you. Your mind is made up, and that would be a shame. The street-level police officer working a beat has absolutely, positively NO interest in hearing the kinds of things that I was just talking about---NONE. What is that officer going to do with that information? Is he going to go and arrest the DA of LA County? Of course not. The police have rules to follow, bosses to answer to, and laws to obey. They can't just go off and do their own thing because some guy, who is NOT a lawyer, is NOT a judge, is NOT an officer of the court, is NOT a public offical, and has only his own "evidence" tells him to. That's ludicrous---absolutely ludicrous.
Like I said, I'm not sure if I used a good example or not to get my point across, but at least I tried. And please don't try to turn the whole argument around by saying that I am comparing a McDonald's employee to a police officer, because a police officer is armed and has the powers to arrest, and all that other stuff. I'm not comparing the two occupations to one another. I used the McDonald's story just to attempt to explain my original point from a few months ago. Since it keeps popping up time and time again, and my previous explanations have not gotten through to some people, I felt that I should give it another try.
You also mentioned Frank Serpico. He is a hero in my eyes, and what he did took a lot of balls. But come on--how many years ago was that? Why do people bring up things from long ago when talking about what is happening TODAY? Yes, we can and should learn from history. But when talking about police corruption and crimes today, it's not fair to say "what about Serpico?" because of how long ago that happened. So many things in the NYPD have changed since then. Does that mean the NYPD is perfect? Nope---it doesn't mean that at all. They have had their high profile cases of officer involved incidents recently. But how many cops does NYPD have? Isn't it something like 15,000 police officers? It's the largest police department in the country. And while the 2 incidents that have happened recently are horrible and wrong, it's still only 2 incidents. As I have said, cops have been dirty in the past, there are dirty cops now, and there will be dirty cops in the future. There is no way around that--it WILL happen, no doubt about it. And fortunately, when it does happen, it gets lots of media attention and the officers are terminated, arrested, and convicted---just as they should be.
I have seen so many good cops out there, doing a first-class job every day at work. In 13 years, I have only seen one cop cross that line and do something that he should not have done. And when it happened, I put a stop to it right away, reported it, and the officer was fired and the suspect collected a huge sum of money from the City. That's in 13 years! I would say that ain't bad. Unfortunately, there are people that would say "kill the cops" because of that one bad cop in 13 years. There's nothing I could ever say or do to change their minds, so I won't even try.
You mentioned that officer Jeff Cooperstein and ALL of the ALLEGED police here think there are two kinds of people: police and criminals. First of all, who the hell is Jeff Coopserstein? And second of all, I am one of those "alleged" police officers (medically retired) and I do not feel that way. And I don't recall any other "alleged" police officers saying that either. Again, it's my own personal opinion that you have some serious anger from some serious police incidents in your past, and as a result of that you have closed your mind so tightly that you just won't hear what anyone else has to say. That's a horrible way to go through life. Not just for this topic, but for everything. I find it interesting that even though I agree with your viewpoint on corrupt cops, yet you look right through that and go for the usual "cops are assholes" routine, and try to invalidate whatever I say. That's okay with me if that is what you choose to do. I am comfortable with my police career, what I have done, how I treated people, and with the police officers that I met and worked with over the years. There are some great people out there patrolling our streets right now, and they have their lives on the line for you--whether you like it or not, and whether you would care to admit it or not, those are the facts.
You wrote: "ok, i just read the bit where this Alec guy says the R/I can legally be killed for whatever reason...dood, don't threaten anybody's life, or even imply it, if you are not ready to back it up..."
I actually wrote: "R/I/R tries to pass me off as a nut case for "attempting to arrest" what he calls the "district attorney of one of the largest counties in Los Angeles." Read his previous postings. Is R/I/R trying to say that Ira Reiner is above the law? In that case, Ira Reiner and all who protect him, including R/I/R, can legally be gunned down wherever they might be found. Read the Declaration of Independence where it talks about government becoming destructive to the ends of the people and do understand that a Washington State Superior Court judge quoted it as law on 16 May 1994."
Now, where does that say anything about what I will or won't do? Where is the statement "for whatever reason" in what I wrote there? Have you read the Declaration of Independence? Are you trying to tell me that it is illegal for me to inform the people of what their options are when the government that they originally created becomes corrupted and turns against them? Please do not misquote me, and especially, do not put words like "for whatever reason" in my mouth. I am beginning to believe that you have no comprehension of what I have posted to this guestbook or of the message that I am trying to communicate here.
Regarding implications and "offering R/I/R the olive branch," I have clarified numerous times in postings that I made after that one that I have no intention of threatening or wanting to threaten R/I/R. You say that it is possible to come to some sort of accord with R/I/R in much the same manner as "calming a cougar who is sharing a cage with you." It is extremely significant that you stated that Hitler was an exception to that rule. Because, Hitler was built up and left to commit the atrocities that he committed by the same group of people (or their descendants) who own the Federal Reserve today. Stated another way, I am saying that the owners and stockholders of the Federal Reserve, the people ultimately responsible for all of this madness, are in the same class as Hitler when it comes to reasoning with them as you suggest. Furthermore, their fraudulent New World Order that they plan for all of us will make Hitler's horrible regime look like paradise. You can take a peek at what their fraudulent New World Order will be like here.
I, personally, would like nothing better than to reason all of this out. Just look at the number of attempts that I made to get R/I/R to see what the government in this country is. But, I don't believe that the fraud that calls itself our public government will be reasonable. Just look at how R/I/R began to attack my character immediately after I refused to swallow the lie that "the United States is the bastion of the free world" and all of the rest of the propanganda that goes along with it. The courts are infinitely worse than R/I/R has been, because, they don't merely attack your character verbally. They assault you physically and attempt to dope you up with poison when you refuse to swallow that lie about the United States, or when they otherwise happen to find you displeasing to their whims.
In summary, I am being expected to give up my God given rights in order to be "reasonable." Those God given rights include the right to have lawful and moral money, and lawful and moral courts, to deal with, and to not have an endless price put on my head for nothing, that I have to "pay off" in ever increasing misery. The courts and the money in the United States are neither lawful nor moral. I am being forced to use the money, and the courts are a constant threat that is looking for whatever excuse to enter my life. The so called cost of living expenses, that I, as well as everyone else, are faced with, are the endless price that has been put on my head for nothing. All of this clearly goes beyond the bounds of "the government being reasonable."
The alleged police posting here substantiate nothing. I substantiate
everything. I find it interesting you ignore the 6 or 7 cases which
I have explicitly substantiated and focus on the one case which I
have only implicitly substantiated. Using only what I posted and
Yahoo, I was able to access all
the information you requested.
There are hundreds of cases just like the '5 year guy' in every
state in this country. Police in every state regularly and routinely
fabricate 'probable cause' simply for the purpose of confiscating
another persons 'ride'. I doubt if it would take me an entire day in a
law library to find AND summarize the 100s of cases for any state.
HINT: One more 'scroll' and you would have found them ... and their
accompanying hyperlinks.
Then do the same using
http://www.yahoo.com. Then take
that information to your nearest law library. Believe it or not, the
law librarian at any university law library will help you find the case.
Believe it or not, the law librarian at many county court houses will
probably call a policeman who will beat you to a pulp because you
are obviously a whacko trying to cause trouble. Oddly enough, the
law librarian in my own county court house was quite helpful. Her
name will forever remain undisclosed for her own protection.
HINT: Try an on-line law library. I've quoted hundreds of cases using
simple on-line law research, on other forums, of course.
Almost every state is represented. The United States Supreme Court
is also available and many, many of their decisions.
The entire USC (United States Code) is on line. This leads to thousands
and thousands of on-line cases.
HINT: Ask for help.
HINT 1: Key "George Terwilliger" into the http://www.yahoo.com
search field and you will get hundreds of outrageous cases to research ... and, as
your friend R/I/R points out, were never counterprosecuted.
You will also get a link to Steve's Guestbook.
HINT 2: Key "shit" into the http://www.yahoo.com search field
and you will probably get a lot of links to "George Terwilliger".
HINT 3: Key "police" into the http://www.yahoo.com search field
and you will get lots of links to "shit".
It is much easier for these alleged police to defend the 5 per cent
of police that are corrupt and just demand that we live with it. Officer Jeff Cooperstein,
and all the alleged police posting here,
insist that there are only two kinds of
people: police and criminals; all the rest haven't been convicted yet.
In the same manner, I believe there exists only kind of police: corrupt
ones; the other 95 per cent just haven't been caught yet ... and,
rest assured, they never will be.
You don't have to believe me: Just ask Frank Serpico or Joe Trimboli.
Now there, is substantiation; irrefutable substantiation.
Frank had to leave the country to keep the police from killing him.
As soon as Joe gets his house sold, he probably will leave the country
too for the same reason.
I just wanted to clarify one thing that you wrote recently. I did not intend to say that the east coast police are bad and the west coast police are good. If you read previous things I have written, I have admitted that there are bad cops in all parts of the country and the world. That's because cops are human, and humans not only make mistakes but humans also do bad and illegal things---even the police. My point was simply that the method by which law enforcement is handled on the east coast is dramatically different than the way it is handled on the west coast. As a general rule, the tactics and equipment that are used on the west coast are a few years ahead of the east coast. After 3 to 5 years, it makes it's way across the country and generally ends up on the east coast. West coast law enforcement has always been the leader in officer safety tactics, equipment, policies, procedures, new statutes, and so on. This is something that I would not expect the average citizen to know, simply because they are not in "the biz". As I have said before, in training classes that I have attended here on the west coast, the instructors use lots and lots of video clips to show both good and bad things that police do. It is a fairly consistent thing to see how far behind the east coast cops are as far as the tactics are concerned. It makes most of us cringe as we watch the videos because we can see exactly what mistakes are being made, and we can also see exactly what is going to happen next. Law enforcement is not the only thing that is ahead of the east coast--there are other things as well. Fashion is one of them. Look at the clothing and styles that are being worn out in California. Within a reasonable amount of time, you will begin seeing the exact same things start to appear on the east coast. I have no idea why it works out this way---it just does.
So I just wanted to clear up the misconception you had about what I said. I do understand your anger and displeasure with law enforcement and it sounds like you have gotten a bum rap. But please don't put words in my mouth. There are bad cops everywhere, and there will continue to be bad cops everywhere. And as those bad cops are discovered, they will be fired and then arrested and hopefully convicted on whatever crimes they commmitted. That's why you see those types of things on the evening news---because the system works. As a general rule, police officers are the "cleanest" group of people as far as any occupation is concerned. The evidence of this is the hiring process for the job. A person simply can not get hired in law enforcement if they have recent and serious crimes in their background--regardless of whether or not they were caught. These things will show up in a background investigation including lie detector test, drug screening, psychological testing, and a host of other pre-requisites for the job. I continue to be proud of the job that I did, and for the occupation in which I worked. I was lucky enough to work for a great department, and to work with a great group of people. I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Thank you for taking the time to visit my website and making a good faith effort to understand what is there. The information is certainly dense, but that is the nature of legal evidence anyways. The questions you asked are in blue and the answers appear immediately afterward. Please let me know if you have further questions.
...however, the basic message that I got was that there are some powers at work in America that have wrested control of the country from the average citizen and made a joke of our political and economic systems, and you (or John Nelson, I'm a little confused there too) think that these system should be overthrown and replaced with... something else, I guess.
The document you read is entirely John Nelson's creation. I am merely a conduit. There are powers at work in America and they are the owners and stockholders of the Federal Reserve, which is a private corporation and also upon which the entire (fraudulent) money system in this country is based. Furthermore, for the most part, these owners and stockholders are not government officials. The manner in which these owners and stockholders of the Federal Reserve wrested control of the country away from the average citizen is critically important to understand since it provides the key to the solution. In simple terms, they have, through manipulation of the money system that they own and control but which we are forced to call public, corrupted our public officials, and especially judges and attorneys, to the point where they have overthrown the United States Constitution and have instituted a dictatorship over the people of this country, all in secret of course, for the time being. The solution that I, and John Nelson, who I have never seen or met, propose is that the United States Constitution be put back in its proper place and that the illegal dictatorship that is currently in place be eradicated and replaced with the constitutional republic that is supposed to be there. It doesn't make sense to talk about "overthrowing" the government as it exists today in the United States since it is what resulted from the real government in this country being overthrown. The reason that the information that you read is dense is that it takes a mountain, and then some, of facts, evidence, etc. to properly prove what is just stated and there is no easy way to present all of those facts, evidence, etc.
My first thought about this is that it seems you are way overestimating the competency of these dark, invisible forces. Having worked for the USGS and for a number of large corporations, I can assure you that the guys in the higher levels of management are in now way "masterminds".
The masterminds, as I stated above, are not government officials and especially not the sort you came in contact with. The masterminds have names like Rothschild, Mellon, Warburg, Rockefeller, J.P. Morgan, Queen Elizabeth II of England, etc. They are, for the most part, wealthy European families and royalty. They are more than able to mastermind something like this, withdraw to their private spaces so that nobody catches on to what they have done, and let the inertia of stupid flunkies such as those government officials you came in contact with keep it in place for them. Again, I must emphasize that the money system in this country is the central means that the masterminds keep control of the flunkies and keep their fraud on track.
But my main misgiving about what I read is that it's didn't appear to be focused on *building* something better. It seemed to be focused mostly on *destroying* something.
The evidence is focused on restoring the United States Constitution, and especially the Bill of Rights, to its rightful place. It is focused on making government obey the dictates of the Constitution and respect the rights of the people. Its purpose is to see the current dictatorship eradicated. Certainly, that would qualify as "building something better."
But my feeling is that my life is short, and I want to devote my time to *creating* something that I can believe in, and *avoid* these other bad things.
You will not be able to "avoid all these bad things," trust me. The owners and stockholders of the Federal Reserve intend to also enslave you in their fraudulent New World Order. Sooner or later, they will butt their ugly nose into your life to the point where you become miserable, probably through their court system using some "fabricated charges." I am not saying that you should make yourself miserable over all this nastiness. By all means, create all the good things in your life that you can. But, at the same time, do understand what the government in this country is and don't trust it at all. Quietly spread the word about what the government in this country is by referring people to my website if nothing else and when enough people become aware of it, be prepared to assist in its replacement with the government we, the people, are really supposed to have. Especially, be prepared to use what is on my website to defend yourself in their courts, if necessary, in order to preserve the good things in life that you have created for yourself. So far, I have had to do that twice. In both instances, what is up on my website was a lifesaver to me. The courts here are that vicious!
R/I/R (Retired/Injured/Retarded) will claim that it was me who threatened him. However, as much as R/I/R wants to believe that I did or will threaten him, I made no threat to him and have no intention to threaten him. I will, however, tell the truth about what he is and about the government that he is protecting, even if that means "giving him shit." Especially, I can't afford to let him mislead the people reading this guestbook as to what the government in this country truly is. It definitely isn't lawful or constitutional government and it protects none of anyone's rights. Everything is contained in previous postings that both I and R/I/R placed in this guestbook and you can review it all there. However, for your benefit, you can find all of the supporting evidence for all of my statements on my website and, briefly, here is what R/I/R is protecting:
(2) A fraudulent court system of attornment, which you probably know as "the court system of this country," populated and controlled by high-handed arrogant, Godless, sadistic, and aristocratic punks, otherwise known as judges and attorneys. It is common knowledge that none of your God given rights are recognized at any time by those courts. Plenty of examples have been posted to this guestbook by me and others.
(3) Fraudulent court case law and fraudulent statutes that completely usurp the United States Constitution, and especially the Bill of Rights.
You stated: "I just want to take a moment and ask all you anticop people out there--how fucking long do you think you would hold up having to put up with all the shit the cops do?" Please consider this: (1) if the police don't like their job, then why don't they simply quit and let the people take care of themselves; and (2) how did it ever come to pass that police "have to face all this shit," because, it hasn't always been that way.
You stated: "But at the end of the day, what this whole discussion should be about is creating a law enforcement that we can all agree is doing it's job correctly." A necessary condition of that is that this fraud that calls itself our public government be eliminated completely and forever, something that R/I/R continuously argues against. Incidentally, the elimination of this fraud that calls itself our public government need not be violent, and I do not seek the killing of anyone. My targets are the fraudulent institutions (especially aristocracies) and practices that make up the fraud that calls itself our public government. Eliminate those institutions and practices and make the government officers that are part of them recognize that they need to abandon them and serve the people of this country instead and that will satisfy me just fine.
You stated that R/I/R is a "good guy." If you believe that to be the case, then why hasn't he acted on any of the evidence that I posted to this guestbook? To date, I have posted legal evidence proving that certain members of the power elite in California, including Ira Reiner, have committed crimes that the common person would be immediately thrown in jail for. Yet R/I/R has failed to act on any of it and instead came back with stuff that would completely and utterly shock and dismay any reasonable person.
26 years of police hiding evidence, police destroying evidence, police stealing equipment, police burning or otherwise destroying equipment, police fabricating evidence, police testi-lying, police murdering members of my family, police murdering members of my friends family, et cetera, et cetera.
26 years and counting.
Don't worry, though. R/I/R assures us this only happens in the east. R/I/R assures us the police on the west coast are much more civilized. Yep. They handcuff you, shoot you in the face ... and, hey, ... if you survive, you get 23 years in jail ... free room and board. Yep. Much more civilized on the west coast. All you know about me is what I've sold you,
-- Tool
I am not talking about just me. I was using myself as an example to show you how, in general, the government is damaging all of the people of this country. Personally, I consider myself relatively unscathed, compared to other people that is. If you read the postings that I made to this guestbook since July 6, 1999, you should be able to see a couple of instances where I tell of people who didn't come through relatively unscathed.
Regarding the behavior of bad police and the nature of the system, I must again say that it is not a case of bad police acting on things by themselves. The entire system is corrupt from the core outward and will tend to corrupt whoever is part of it or associated with it, especially judges, attorneys and police. In other words, all of those bad examples you described in your last posting, as bad as they are, are merely symptoms of the much larger problem I described in my last posting to you.
Despite all this, you say you still wish to become a police officer. In that case, I ask that you do the following. You say that you have visited my website. I now ask that you keep visiting my website, that you inform other people of my website so that they can visit it as well and that you download your own copy of at least the United States Bankruptcy Fraud, Core Section 1 document on my website. You see, knowledge is power and you are going to need that power. What is on my website isn't about just me. It is about every single person in this country.
Don't misunderstand me and believe that I am calling you young and naive. Some years ago, when I was hardly young and naive, I had wished that I had had what is now up on my website because it would have probably saved me from a 10 month long ordeal that I had had to endure. As it was, I came across what is now up on my website at the end of that ordeal, and that knowledge is what stopped the ordeal and made it be a 10 month long ordeal instead of an endless ordeal. Again, I am not saying how unfortunate I am. I am merely using myself as an example of how the contents of my website can serve you. In fact, I consider myself fortunate. That ordeal that I had had to endure could have been endless and some people that I know are suffering similar endless ordeals.
Regarding that "Retired/Injured Cop," I wish that I didn't have to speak out against what he does as I am doing. It is quite tiring, to tell you the truth! However, just as I am obligated to prevent a theft or any other crime that I might witness, I am just as obligated to prevent him from misleading the people reading this guestbook as to what the government in this country really is. And, despite all of his rhetoric, and protestations that I am "crazy" and that "I don't know what I am talking about," the facts remain that the government in this country is an enemy of the country and of its people, and is foreign to the principles upon which the United States was founded.
To R/I/R: you asked, very sarcastically that is, but you still asked: "how can I serve you and what solutions do you propose?" Here they are:
(2) Understand and accept the court system in this country for the deadly threat to the people that it is. Give up your charade of trying to portray this court system fraud as prim, proper and legitimate! If you say that you don't want to "spin your wheels" and "babble and complain endlessly about it," FINE. But, give up your charade and quietly begin spreading the word about what the court system is to as many people as you feel comfortable doing so. The sooner enough people realize what the court system is the sooner it can be brought back in line with the fundamental precepts upon which the United States was founded. In particular, this means the dissolution of the aristocracies that currently it.
(3) Understand and accept the money system in this country for the deadly threat to the people that it is and quietly spread the word about it as you feel comfortable. The sooner the United States has the real money that the Constitution requires, the sooner almost all of the economic problems in this country will vanish. In the meantime, you might be able to use this fraudulent currency, feel comfortable doing so and might not even be immoral doing so. Your immorality comes when you try to portray this money fraud as legitimate. Accept that there are others, such as myself, who can't stand this fraudulent currency and that we are not crazy kooks for being this way. Our moral and religious principles are such that we can't stand this fraudulent currency, whereas you might be able to. And, the right of everyone to adhere to their moral and religious principles is one of the fundamental rights that the United States was founded on.
Thank you for responding to my comments to you. I do see your point about "going numb" or "becoming one of them" after having endured long years, or even months, of constant attack by low-lifes, and can easily see that a police officer "going off the deep end" now and then would be a normal, but not desirable, consequence of this.
Unfortunately, there is a lot more to the picture than that point you brought to my attention and much of it is a lot uglier than that point, as ugly as that point is.
Please consider the following:
Does that mean that every encounter I have had with the police has been bad? No. I have, about 25% of the time, had some good officers respond. Were they able to assist? Not always and when they could, just barely. What was the difference between the good officers and the bad ones? With the good officers, I saw a real willingness to assist and to really want to solve the problem at hand. With the bad officers, all I received was cheap excuses and attacks on my character, and no effort at all to solve the problem at hand. What hampered the good officers from truly being able to assist like they wanted to and what was the chief excuse the bad officers used to deny assistance? Limitations imposed on them by the court system.
If you visit my website, you will find legal evidence to prove that the entire court system in this country is corrupt to the core. The evidence is long winded and often difficult to follow, but it is real and it does prove that all of the people in this country are in deadly danger from the court system as it exists today in this country. Furthermore, the evidence proves that the money system in this country is a deadly threat to the people as well (more on this later). Where the police become a problem is when they protect the court system as it exists today and attempt to force its actions and intent on the people.
In my previous posting to you, I had asked you to read the postings that that "Retired/Injured Cop," had made to this guestbook. I was not trying to show you an example of a police officer whose life had been ruined in the line of duty. I was trying to show you a police officer who is doing everything possible to protect the court system as it exists today and to attempt to force its actions and intent on the people. When I said that odds favor that you would become like that "Retired/Injured Cop" that responded to you, I wasn't meaning that your risk of becoming crippled or of "going off on the deep end" were high. I was saying that odds favored that the system would corrupt you and change your personality so that you would protect and serve the court system as it exists today in this country. I was saying that you would lose your identity, and the ideals and morals you have now.
I urgently request that you visit my website and then read all of this guestbook's postings since July 6, 1999. It is critical that you fully understand what the court system in this country is and exactly where that "Retired/Injured Cop" is coming from.
Again, regarding the abuse that police officers routinely receive today, it hasn't always been that way. I am almost 40 years old and can remember the days when there were very few of the low-lifes you see so often today. Why are there so many low-lifes today and what caused them to become that way? Two reasons: (1) the courts in this country and (2) the money system in this country. I already covered the courts. Let me now cover the money system.
My understanding is that you are 18. Therefore, you were not alive during the 1970s, and, in particular from 1972 to 1978. In that 6 year time period, the standard of living for the average American household sharply declined and all of it was due to the double whammy of taxes and inflation. The progressive income tax, the fact that taxes back then were not adjusted for inflation, and the double digit inflation during each one of those years all served to force both parents in a household to have to work in order to make ends meet where previously only one parent had to work. I, personally, remember the time when that happened in my family. Now, you tell me how well toddlers grow up without the proper nuturing that parents can't possibly give if both of them have to work. It was in the 1980s, when those toddlers would have become teenagers, that the gangs, drugs and violence that we see today appeared in full force.
If you look at my evidence that shows how the money system in this country is structured you will be able to observe two things: (1) it is forbidden by the United States Constitution and (2) inflation and taxes are both direct and deliberate consequences of its structure.
For example, I remember, back in 1988 having asked what inflation was for that year, and before I knew anything about the Federal Reserve. I received an answer that shocked me. When I inquired further, I learned that: (1) inflation had only been kept track of since 1914 and (2) the base year, upon which the inflation rate was based, was moved forward in time periodically. Later, I learned about the Federal Reserve and that it was created on December 22, 1913. In other words, inflation has been kept track of only for as long as the Federal Reserve has been in existence. Coincidence? Not when the rest of the evidence is added.
So, to summarize, we have a money system in this country that created the bad economic conditions that are ultimately responsible for the violence you see in this country today. Then, we have a court system whose intent it is to perpetuate that violence. Finally, we have the police protecting that court system. Do you get the idea that the government in this country does not serve the people and that the majority of the police are part of that problem?
Well, you guessed it right on the money. You didn't believe it, and you were right. Congratulations. You should win an award. But right when I'm ready to quit this debating with you, you post something that is just too tempting for me to pass up. Let's see, how can you twist this into a crime? That IS what you like to do right? I guess since I said I don't want to play any more, and here I am, playing again, I guess that means that I made a fraudulent comment. I was being deceitful, and I lied. Oh my gosh!!! Not only that, but I did that on the Internet! Surely, the people that read this Guestbook can see that I, R/I/R, committed an act of fraud and treason to the people of this country. I should be arrested!!! But we all know that isn't going to happen, because me and my secret agent cohorts are all working together, behind the scenes, to keep people like Alec frustrated. That is our number one mission in life. We have a HUGE network of conspiracies going. And we're not talking hundreds, but THOUSANDS of us are invovled in this treasonous act of conspiracy. Why do we do this? Because we must continue to keep Alec happy. You see, he is only happy when he is blabbing about these things. So we don't mind committing these horrid crimes for him. It's a big conspiracy, and he has finally uncovered it all. Good for him! A country full of intelligent people, scientists, geniuses, doctors, etc, and who discovers this big "coverup" with secret agents? None other than our own Alec. Wow---he must really be good. How did he uncover our fraud? How did he discover us? I don't know, because I thought we were really doing a good job at keeping it "secret". But nope, he blew the lid right off this thing. He's got us cornered now.
Hey Alec, in your last posting (below) where you show my quotes in that lovely blue color, what do you do? Do you just go back to your previous posts where you have written the same thing at least 10 times before and just cut and paste? What in the HELL are you doing anyway? At least it does give me a good laugh, and it's a daily dose of free entertainment.
And just for the record, with all of your whining, complaining, paranoid and dilusional thoughts, have you EVER come up with a "solution" to these things that you have supposedly uncovered? NO!!!!!! You just love complaining don't you? You sit there and spew out lie after lie, complaining about this great country that we live in. Here's a novel thought---why don't you post a SOLUTION to what you keep writing about? Knock off all of this cut and paste crap where you just keep repeating the non-sensical garbage over and over again. If you really think all of this stuff is true (which you obviously do), then it would be really nice if you came up with a solution for it. But you know what---you won't come up with a solution for it. That's because you can't--you can't come up for a solution with something that isn't broken. You made a feable attempt at it before, saying that it just needs to fixed, and people just need to know the truth, and people just need to work together to fix it, and blah blah blah blah. Why don't you give SPECIFICS you idiot? Oh my gosh! I just made an attack on your character. Oh my---time to whip out the Constitution and find out which paragraph I just violated, and then say that I'm obvisouly a criminal for my obvious crimes against you. And gosh, I shouldn't be doing those things. Because after all, I am here to serve YOU! Right Alex? Don't you think that's why I'm here? To serve you? You've mentioned me neglecting to "serve" you so many times now that I think that's what you truly believe. A retired, disabled cop no longer employed after being injured on duty by a suspect---and you want me to serve you???? Come back to reality you worthless piece of you-know-what. Oh no--I just called you another name. ANOTHER CRIME COMMITTED BY R/I/R!!!! Call in the National Guard!!!! Maybe I should get an attorney. But wait--everybody---look at the word "attorney". Can't you see the similarity between "attorney" and "attornment". Oh no!! We must have courts of attornment! Look at how close those words resemble each other! Maybe I should write 10 paragraphs about this. Nah..I think I'll skip that. Somebody else will probably write about that. Maybe, um, ALEC!
Am I getting pissed off at you? Yes---you bet I am. And can you figure out why? Of course you can't---you're a mental patient, which means I must take you by the hand and explain it to you. Well here it goes, and listen good: You have been sitting here for the last few months pumping out the same crap---over and over and over and over and over again. Not one word of it makes sense. Not one shred of "evidence" is present. You have no idea what you are talking about. Your knowledge of the laws in the State of California is sub-par and in most instances, is very wrong. Your interpetation of certain statutes and rules, policies, etc, is warped and wrong. You are a very selfish, very self-serving individual. You have yet to make one single productive comment on how to "fix" the things that you see as being "broken". You are a drain on society, and offer nothing useful to it. You are a hazard to good police officers everywhere, and I feel sorry for those that will encounter you someday. You are such a paranoid man that believes in such garbage, it is beyond comprehension. So, you ask, why does this get me angry? This is why---because I worked my ass off for 13 years with a municipal police department. I do not have ONE SINGLE citizen complaint against me in all that time. NOT ONE! My personnel file is filled to the brim with letters written by citizens, commending me for things that I have done....for taking that extra step to help them solve their problems....for taking the extra time to change somebody's flat tire when cops do not do that type of thing (tow trucks do).....for collecting money to buy kids some Christmas gifts when their house burned down 2 days before Christmas......for risking my life and bringing out a 7 year old girl from a burning house, giving her CPR and saving her life......for NOT using deadly force when it could have very easily been used.......for taking the time to help confused kids who are walking the fence bewteen gang life and a straight life....for many, many other things that you, Alec, have NO concept of. And the final sacrifice I made----getting seriously injured on the job and having reconstructive surgery done on my spine, resulting in a lifelong disability and metal rods, screws, and cages in my back as a result. All of this and I'm only in my mid 30's. This is why I get angry with you. Because you sit there and complain, complain, complain. You sit there and tell lie after lie after lie. You are a no good bum, and I pity you. What a sad life you must lead. While you sit there and complain about "secret agents" and "courts of attornment", I'm out there working my ass off trying to make things better. While at the same time, trying to deal with crazy people like you getting in my way while I'm trying to do it. To put it bluntly, you make me sick. If you have valid complaints about the police, go ahead and make them. If there is evidence to back those claims up, then shame on the police and they will have to answer for the wrongs that they did. There are rotten apples in every single job---that's because we're only human. But for you to sit there and call me a criminal---HOW DARE YOU! HOW FUCKING DARE YOU! I have spent my entire adult life protecting people from crime and serving the public, and along comes a low-life nobody like you saying I am a criminal. If anybody should be going to jail, it's you. What for? I don't know---how about wasting the court's time by writing RIDICULOUS letters to them as demonstrated by the documentation on your web page for the officer that pulled you over. What a bunch of nonsense and garbage that was. Do you see ANY of this crap get you ANYWHERE???? Come on, do you? Other than the psych ward at the local hospital--that doesn't count. I say again, you make me sick. If you were willing to have a debate on the issues, I would respect your opinions and comments even though I may disagree with them. But that is okay--there's nothing wrong with healthy debating. But you take it WAY beyond that Alec. When you go around making accusations that somebody like me is a criminal, that is stepping over the line of respect. But what do you know about respect? Obviously not a whole hell of a lot. Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't have continued this debate with you for this long of a period. I would have stopped after the first time you responded because I could instantly see that you were mentally unstable. But that just goes to show the sad state of affairs for me----too damn much time on my hands since being retired. I should be out patrolling the streets right now, doing what I love. But I can't do that any more, because of metal rods sticking up inside my spine. Do you know how many letters were written to my police department asking about me when I wasn't seen patrolling the neighborhoods after a while? I don't either---it was THAT many! Even the gang members were asking where Officer (my name) was, because they knew I could be trusted and I would respect them as a person, even though I would sometimes have to arrest them. Even a gang member understands mutual respect Alec---but not you. Oh no, definitely not. All you can do is talk about how everybody is out to get you, and how the "so called government" is this or that. Get a frickin' life, would you? Either that, or change your argument to something that makes sense. Your argument has never gone anywhere, and it will never go anywhere. It is useless babble, and nobody can even understand it. I actually tried to read what your points were several times, but it just makes no sense at all. You make quantum leaps from topic to topic with nothing at all to back up your claims. And don't do this "look at my web page for the evidence" crap. I've looked, and there is no evidence. It's just more of the same crap that you post here.
I've said enough. I don't give a rat's ass what you post in response to this. You can put my quotes in blue, red, purple, or yellow. Nobody cares! Until you change your argument to something that makes sense, you're just a nutty fool that nobody takes seriously. Especially me---not after what I have gone through to get to where I am today. And since you keep mentioning the benefits that I receive from the government, what in the hell is your point there? You think I'm "protecting" the government because I have an interest there??? You can call it whatever the hell you want to you idiot, but that's damn right, I do receive my retirement from PERS---the Public Employee's Retirement System. My own money has been paid into that account for 13 years, and I am getting back what is rightfully mine. I was injured on duty, and that's just the way it works. And if you call that a crime, then fuck you.
So R/I/R says that "he doesn't want to play anymore." Based on his past behavior, I don't believe it.
But, if that does turn out to be the case, it would appear that he has run out of anything but comebacks that anyone would immediately recognize as absurd. If, in fact that is the case, I hope that it also means that he will no longer attempt to mislead the people reading this guestbook as to what the government in this country truly is (i.e. a foreign invader that needs to be kicked out pronto). To date, he has addressed none of my evidence and has refused to act in all cases where I brought to his attention specific instances of the power elite committing crimes the common person would immediately be thrown in jail for. All of this is in my past postings. Also, it isn't just me. Other people have posted similar evidence and R/I/R's responses have been just as absurd. That can also be seen if you read the past postings in this guestbook.
Observe how viciously R/I/R attacks my character this time. This is in response to my simply giving him irrefutable evidence that the government in this country is a total fraud, attempting to get him to take positive action to correct it, and refusing to swallow his lies and drivel and thereby get caught up in the fraud, which he even has the nerve to call "getting a life."
R/I/R even stoops so low as to attempt to use the "love it or leave it argument on me!" The assumption that R/I/R wants everyone to believe when using that argument is that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the government in the United States, or with what he calls society. The reality is that the government in the United States does not belong to the people of this country, is foreign to the principles that this country was founded on (i.e. is a foreign invader) and is a mortal enemy of the people of this country. Society, in turn, mirrors the government. Until the people of this country recognize these facts and take the necessary steps to correct them, life for everyone will just continue to deteriorate. Personally, I would rather take the necessary steps to change things than run away (did I hear someone say that before?), even if it means that those steps are generally unpopular and means vicious attacks on my character such as those R/I/R has, time and again, engaged in.
The reality is that R/I/R is everything that he accused me of being in his posting of Saturday, October 09, 1999 at 04:18:52 (MDT). If you read all of the postings in this guestbook since July 6, 1999, this should become clear. However, I need to set the record straight here because R/I/R relies heavily on the common knowledge that people usually disregard what is not immediately in front of them. Therefore, based on what he has previously posted to this guestbook no less, let me again summarize where R/I/R is coming from, what he really believes in and how little respect he has for the people of this country:
"2)You are obviously a person who knows nothing about case law decisions, as well as the "spirit of the law" and how it applies itself in real life. You quote all of these laws like everything is followed in black and white just becuase it's written. There is the fantasy-land of reading the law books, and there is the reality of actually applying those laws in real life. I'm just telling you this since you obviously live in fantasy-land. Basically, you don't know what you're talking about. And there is no way I'm going to take the time to justify why. There isn't room for two people in your strange little world." In other words, R/I/R is saying that anyone who quotes the law, other than judges, attorneys and police of course, and if what is being quoted is not in keeping with their whims, then the person quoting the law is a whacko, kook, crazy, criminal, etc. You need to remember here that R/I/R believes that the common person is incompetent to quote the United States Constitution, a document written in plain English (see his first quote above). The evidence, that has been provided to R/I/R by me and by others, and to which he responded with the quote immediately above, is irrefutable. You can find that evidence in previous postings of mine in this guestbook as well as here.
It has definitely been an education for me, that's for sure. I now have a good idea about certain things, and I hope I will find it useful when I go back and teach a class to the police departments. As I said before, the way your mind works with the repetitive words of insane garbage gives us a really good inside look at an EDP. And in all honesty, I do wish you luck in the future. I hope you can get over whatever hurdles it is you are now facing that are you causing you to be like this. But take it from me when I tell you that life is a gift, and it goes by way too fast. Don't waste your time on this earth by doing this. Move onto something productive, and if you need to, go to counseling and have him or her help you figure out why you are doing this. Once your eyes open up to the answers, you'll have an exciting new life in front of you. Good luck!
Regarding my comments earlier, I would like to apologize to you for coming off a little strong. I did say that my comments were to be taken in general, meaning they were not specific to you. However, when I re-read what I wrote it definitely does look like it's geared very specifically towards you. What I had in mind to write, and what actually came out, were two different things. One of the disadvantages to writing and not talking I suppose. If you are going to talk about the situation you are currently in, I would be interested in hearing more about that. It sounds very unusual, and it does sound like one of those stories that would be hard for people to believe. So that taped evidence that you have is golden, and it was great thinking of you to do that before going in and talking to the P/O.
You mentioned that you are the only man to do time at SQ for airing the "dirty laundry" of the parole department on the Internet. What crime were you charged with? I don't understand this at all. Unless it was a 3056 (Parole Violation) and the P/O sent you back for the full year. If that was the case, what was the statute that was violated? I'm just having a hard time understanding why you would get sent back to prison for a web page that you created. Unless it was specifically targeting people to be harmed, giving their names and addresses (as in the abortion doctor's incident that is now case law), what possible violation was there? I can't think of one.
And the final thing I just wanted to mention is this. You can take it or leave it, but it's my 2 cents worth. One of the most difficult things that I have tried to do in recent years is to keep an open mind with things. Not just police stuff, but to life in general. It is a VERY hard thing for a person to do, and there are many people who are not capable of doing it. Not because they are a bad person, or because they are stupid, or anything like that. But because it is burned into our brains from the very beginning to have prejudiced views and to make decisions in life based upon biased and incorrect information. I have tried VERY hard to get to a point where I think I can do a half decent job of looking at a circumstance, ANY circumstance, without the handicap of prejudice. As I said, there are a lot of people who simply can't do it---it has been grilled into them by society too many times, and they are not able to break free from that burden. The only reason I am mentioning this is because, from the tone of your response, I think you may already have your mind made up that no matter what I say it will be wrong. Neither of us can learn anything from each other if that is what happens. The topic of police corruption is fascinating to me, and I am very interested in learning about the experiences that people have with it. I only know this topic from one side---that of the police. I would really like to learn about the incidents that people have with the police if they are willing to share the facts. But I am only interested in true corruption, and true complaints. I'm not really interested in someone who gets pulled over doing 70 MPH in a 35 MPH zone, then after getting a ticket for the obvious violation says "Fucking cops. They were out to get me". That kind of stuff just goes nowhere with me. You do the crime, than you do the time. That's a simple fact of life. If someone is not adult enough to own up their own responsibilities, then that's their problem. Now when that same person gets pulled over and gets harrassed for no reason, that is the kind of stuff I would like to learn about. I have long-term plans for this kind of thing, and I have not made any firm decisions yet. But I would like to compile information and learn as much as I can, and go back to the police departments and teach what I have learned. Having this come from a cop that left the department with respect will mean a lot more than coming from somebody else. Like it or not, those are just the facts. And it would be the same in any occupation. Just like an assembly line worker---they will be much more receptive to a change in policy if it is presented by one of their co-workers who has learned about it, then some stranger coming in wearing a suit who knows nothing about what it's like to work the line all day. This is just basic, human nature stuff.
Anyway, if you would agree to just give it a shot and keep an open mind, I will too and maybe we could both learn something new. If you could let me know about the web page problem I'm having also, that would be great. If there is a link that you could post here, then I can go to the page directly that tells your story as well as some of the links you referred to. For whatever reason, I can't seem to get them on my end. Thanks.
You have a great attitude, at this point in time, that is. I especially liked your statement about on-duty police receiving double the penalty that a citizen would for the same crime, because of the fact that they are police and should know better. It is a nice thought. I would even add that police should receive double the penalty whether they are on or off duty. The role the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution plays here needs to be made clear, however. In particular, the 14th Amendment forbids different penalties for different people who are guilty of the same crime, and for good reason. What is not forbidden, however, and what is not enforced, to the point of absurdity, is, when police commit the same crimes that a citizen would, they become guilty not only of the crimes the citizen would be guilty of, but also of the additional crime of committing crimes under color of law. That is where police committing crimes could be punished double.
Unfortunately, I must bring you back to reality. I said that you have a great attitude, now. It is almost certain that you will not keep that great attitude long. Odds favor that you would become like that "Retired/Injured Cop" that responded to you. To get a complete picture of what he really is, read all of the postings to this guestbook that have been made since July 6, 1999. I recommend that you reconsider your decision to become a police officer.
Finally, regarding your concerns about this website, again look at the postings to this guestbook that have been made since July 6, 1999. Then, check out the evidence here. Finally, understand what the police are protecting and how damaging it is to the citizens.
Unfortunately, I must bring you back to reality. I said that you have a great attitude, now. It is almost certain that you will not keep that great attitude long. Odds favor that you would become like that
Observe how R/I/R insists about the "money issue," as he tries to take that out of proportion in an attempt to portray me as someone who is "backed into a corner." I thought that R/I/R would be able to deduce the answer from my previous postings, but apparently he doesn't want to. I said I would give it but then had to attend to other things. Meanwhile, he continues to mislead the people reading this guestbook. Anyways, here is his answer, for the record. R/I/R's original question was:
So, unless you want to be homeless and you want to starve, there is no way out of using the fraudulent money. Even, the case where you "get some sort of benefit" means it is given to you, for an extremely heavy moral and spiritual price, and you then have to spend it, which still means you are using the fraudulent money and are caught up in the fraud.
The situation is, in essence, identical to one where you are ordered to commit fraud and theft at gunpoint, and under threat of death, by criminals who will benefit from the fraud and theft. Does that make you a criminal? What would any reasonable and moral person do in such a circumstance? Such a person would, first, seek to commit as little fraud and theft as possible and second, get away as quickly as possible from the criminals with the guns. However, in the case of the fraudulent money system, there is no way to get away from the criminals with the guns. Therefore, your only option is to eliminate the fraud itself.
And, that is exactly what I am doing. I receive no so called government benefits, never have received any so called government benefits, will refuse all so called government benefits, have cut my expenses to the bone and I am obviously attacking the fraudulent money system for what it is.
As far as being a criminal, the case for R/I/R is far different, however. Observe, in particular that he receives "benefits" from this fraud and how forcefully he protects this fraud, including the fraudulent money system and the fraudulent court system. R/I/R is even attempting to manuever me back into this fraud. He calls that "getting a life!" It should be obvious to everyone reading this guestbook that R/I/R is a criminal who is doing everything possible to cover up his crimes, even if it means dragging someone else back into the criminal activities he is involved in.
Be that as it may, having to use the fraudulent money, as little as it is, in my case, is still extremely draining on me. I sincerely look forward to the day when money is, once again, real in this country.
Oh--and just so you know, you say in your latest post to "compare it to the manner in which he addresses the uninformed (the 3rd to the
last posting to this guestbook)". Well, when I look at the 3rd to the last posting to this guestbook, it's something written by a person who identifies himself as "The Police", and he lists his location as "Texas USA". Are you now starting to say that OTHER postings on this Guestbook are written by me as well? If so, you're slipping off the deep end faster than I realized.
You talk about ME being a "broken record"--good grief!!! How many times have posted that same CRAP now? I lost count after 10 times in the last few months. But at least I'm not confused why you do it, because I understand that you can't control it without your medication.
I thought maybe you had been taken on a 72 hour psychiatric hold again because you haven't posted here in several days. The last we heard from you, you were going to respond to what I wrote. Or did the meds that they gave you make you forget about that? I asked you how you manage to pay for things on a daily basis. Certainly you don't pay with CASH do you???? Because, according to you, the money system in this country is fraudulent. So unless you are paying for things with some OTHER money system that I'm not aware of, I guess you're just as guilty as the rest of us! Maybe the secret agents are coming to arrest you RIGHT NOW! Didn't you stop by McDonald's the other day and get a burger?? If you paid for it in cash, you're a criminal!!! Quick--put the aluminum foil back up on the windows and doors---that will keep them away!
R/I/R (Retired/Injured Cop <User 3665@aol.com>) talks so "prim and proper," as if the government agencies in this country could be nothing other than so completely clean and legitimate, and so respectful of the people. What utter lies and nonsense! Let me put R/I/R's statements in perspective. The reality is that the entire government in this country is a fraud and all of the government agencies are controlled by that fraud. R/I/R gave a clue to that in his latest posting, namely:
"Buttons that can be pushed?" Sounds like these "servants of the people" expect the people to please their whims. If these "public servants" find their "service" to the people so onerous that they feel that their "buttons are being pushed," then why don't they quit? I know why. In essence, these "public servants" are robbing the people of everything they have and of everything they are, and, at least for the moment, the people, generally speaking, are too stupid and lazy to care to do something about it. That is why these so called public servants don't want to quit.
This, in essence, is how these so called public servants are robbing the people of this country of everything they have and are:
(2) A fraudulent court system of attornment controlled by a group of communist aristocracies, otherwise known as the various State Bar Associations and the American Bar Association. Attornment is defined in Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Edition. The members of these communist aristocracies, judges and attorneys (notice the similarity to attornment), are often satanic and sadistic, and are always whimsical, capricious, deceitful and otherwise generally completely disrespectful of the people of this country, who they are supposed to serve. These judges and attorneys are completely and utterly Godless and have no God fearing morals whatsoever. Bill and Hillary Clinton are both attorneys and are excellent examples of this. These judges and attorneys are total punks who believe that they are entitled to take anything they want, including life, limb, liberty, property, mind, spirit and soul, from anyone they want whenever they want. Most terrifying of all, these punks further believe that they are entitled, under color of law, to wantonly cause other people endless and unimaginable misery solely to satisfy their masochistic and sadistic whims. I have been told that some of these punks get a sexual high out of other people's agony. I can well believe it.
(3) All of the corrupt case law and statutes that this fraudulent court system of attornment has created or caused to be created, and all of the Executive orders created since the inception of this country.
"2)You are obviously a person who knows nothing about case law decisions, as well as the "spirit of the law" and how it applies itself in real life. You quote all of these laws like everything is followed in black and white just becuase it's written. There is the fantasy-land of reading the law books, and there is the reality of actually applying those laws in real life. I'm just telling you this since you obviously live in fantasy-land. Basically, you don't know what you're talking about. And there is no way I'm going to take the time to justify why. There isn't room for two people in your strange little world." In other words, R/I/R is saying that anyone who quotes the law, other than judges, attorneys and police of course, and if what is being quoted is not in keeping with their whims, then the person quoting the law is a whacko, kook, crazy, criminal, etc. The evidence, that has been provided R/I/R and to which he responded with the above quote, is irrefutable. You can find that evidence in previous postings of mine in this guestbook as well as here.
It should be obvious to anyone reading this guestbook that everyone in this country needs to be aware of just how criminal R/I/R, his police officer cohorts, and the criminals (judges and attorneys) that they protect, really are.
First, I would like to say that I like the idea of what you are proposing. A weekly internet "program" is a great way to get your message out and get people involved. I would like to think that as you do this program, you maintain an open mind to BOTH sides of the issue. If you are going to be one-sided and not listen to the police officer's side at all, then it invalidates everything that you are saying due to the lack of accepting criticism and input. I feel that it is necessary to hear all sides of an issue in order to make an informed and educated decision. If someone is going to present a "hot" topic such as the one you have chosen, then you should be prepared to present the facts in an unprejudiced and unbiased fashion. I don't know what your plans are---these are simply my comments about how I feel viewpoints should be presented. Sort of the same theory as the Fox News Channel's slogan of, "We Report, You Decide". That way, the listener is given all relative information and can make an informed decision by himself. I am a retired police officer in Northern California, and I am only in my mid 30's. I was seriously injured on duty by a suspect, so I have some rather strong opinions about this whole topic. I would like to follow your program, and I will be interested to see if you allow my participation and/or comments.
A couple of things I would like to mention as well. You said in your video presentation that you are "a former ex con". I'm sure you know what I am about to say---there is no such thing as a "former ex con". The "ex" in "ex con" denotes that you are a former convicted criminal. If you say you are a "former" ex con, that is implying that you are no longer an ex con, and that is not true. Unless your conviction was commuted by the Governor, you are still an ex con with a criminal record. I am not saying this to lessen what you say or to be disrespectful. I simply want the record set straight.
In your video clip, you also say that you have sued the following agencies: the FBI, the Dept of Corrections, the Sheriff's Department, the Police Department, and I believe there is one more that I may be missing. I have no idea at all what the lawsuits are about, or what your past is. I have never heard of you before, so I can not make a specific comment on the lawsuits. However, I can make a general comment, and that simply is, you must be doing something to be generating the attention of all of those law enforcement agencies. If you have had contact with that many departments, and you have filed lawsuits with that many departments, it just sounds to me like you approach all law enforcement situations with the feeling of "What can I do to piss them off so that I can generate an officer complaint against them?". Being an ex con, I'm sure you know the process very well. Those reading this Guestbook that are not cops and are not ex cons do not know what I'm talking about, but I'm sure Mr. Cobb and I are reading each other just fine right now. So not only have you most likely been conducting activity to generate the attention of law enforcement, but when contacted by them, instead of cooperating with the officer(s), you chose to pick a fight (not literally) and you know exactly what buttons to push to generate your complaints. I'm not sure I understand why people have a mission in life to do this. It has always boggled my mind. I have run across these types of people in the past, and I know exactly what they're doing within 10 seconds of talking to them. It's such a waste of time for both the citizen and the officer.
WIth that said, I look forward to hearing what you have to present. I am just as outraged as you, if not more, when I hear about corrupt police officers or police officers assulting a citizen under the color of authority. It gives all of us good cops a bad reputation. And yes, there indeed are corrupt cops working as police officers right now. But we don't know who they are yet. They need to be caught first, and when they are caught, you can bet that the district attorney will go after them with everything they've got. At least, that's how it works in the County I live in .
One final comment. You talked about the news media and how they don't report the full story, and are biased in their reporting. You and I agree 100% on this. However, I honestly was very surprised when you said that the news media do not cover corrupt cops enough. Again, I don't know what it's like where you live, but in Northern California one of the major newspapers here is the "San Jose Mercury News". I stopped my subscription to them a few years ago because of their blatant disregard for the facts when dealing with police issues. They are extremely one-sided and are very anti police. They will take a good officer who made a very difficult decision to use deadly force and drag him and his family through the mud. This is regardless of the fact that the use of deadly force was totally justified and legal, and any other cop in that officer's shoes would have done exactly the same thing. Being a cop is hard enough, but it makes the job a lot worse when there is a rogue newspaper with an agenda working against the police. We work so damn hard to earn the trust and respect of the citizens that we work for. But to have a major newspaper like that constantly going after the GOOD cops is very wrong and very unethical.
I look forward to viewing your future programs. How will I know when to check back for a new show? Your web site does not list any information about that.
Regarding R/I/R, I am not ignoring him. Unlike him, however, I receive no "benefits," and will never receive any "benefits," from the fraud that calls itself our public government. As a result, I have to work to pay these so called bills of mine, and that takes time. So, I will respond when I next get the time to do so.
Whew! At least I don't have to write it again. Thanks for saving me the hassle.
In the posting that R/I/R made just before this latest one, it appeared that he had begun to listen, if only a tiny bit. I responded accordingly. What did I receive in response? More attacks on my character and more attempts
to defend this fraud that calls itself our public government, including some way out whacked out non scenario about the weather to further confuse and fool the people reading this website! Perhaps R/I/R is too retarded to
be able to figure out just what I mean by the term: "the fraud that calls itself our public government," although, considering how much evidence I have brought forth, I can't see why. Be that as it may, I will spell it out clearly right now, just so he knows, for the record, what it
is that needs to be gotten rid of.
The fraud that calls itself our public government is all of the following. Considering that evidence fully supporting every statement made here is on my website, if R/I/R had bothered to pay attention to any of it, he would already have taken serious note of it, and of this:
(2) A fraudulent court system of attornment controlled by a group of communist aristocracies, otherwise known as the various State Bar Associations and the American Bar Association. Attornment, for R/I/R's education is defined in Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Edition. The
members of these communist aristocracies, judges and attorneys (notice the similarity to attornment), are often satanic and sadistic, and are always whimsical, capricious, deceitful and otherwise generally completely disrespectful of the people of this country, who they are supposed to
serve. These judges and attorneys are completely and utterly Godless and have no God fearing morals whatsoever. Bill and Hillary Clinton are both attorneys and are excellent examples of this. These judges and attorneys
are total punks who believe that they are entitled to take anything they want, including life, limb, liberty, property, mind, spirit and soul, from anyone they want whenever they want. Most terrifying of all, these punks
further believe that they are entitled, under color of law, to wantonly cause other people endless and unimaginable misery solely to satisfy their masochistic and sadistic whims. I have been told that some of these punks
get a sexual high out of other people's agony. I can well believe it.
(3) All of the corrupt case law and statutes that this fraudulent court system of attornment has created or caused to be created, and all of the Executive orders created since the inception of this country.
R/I/R's response here will probably be that "you are a nut and this is all part of your delusion." But, try to see where R/I/R is coming from. He, no doubt receives some kind of pension from the system, such as it is now,
and therefore has a vested interest in protecting it, as it is now, to the obvious point of absurdity. So R/I/R is a biased party here. That needs to be remembered. What R/I/R fails to grasp is that what he described in
his last posting is what will happen if the system is allowed to continue as it is doing now. In other words, R/I/R is protecting what he says he doesn't want to happen! On another note, R/I/R believes that the common
person is incompetent to quote the United States Constitution, a document written in plain English.
Furthermore, the United States Constitution is required knowledge for anyone wanting to become a citizen and is taught in high school, at least when I was there. If it isn't now, then that fact alone should tell anyone
reading this webpage that there is something seriously wrong with the United States today. This brings me to my next point about R/I/R's latest posting.
R/I/R complains that he is sick of the following quote:
My entire problem with R/I/R, in essence, boils down to the following:
"2)You are obviously a person who knows nothing about case law decisions, as well as the "spirit of the law" and how it applies itself in real life. You quote all of these laws like everything is followed in black and white just becuase it's written. There is the fantasy-land of reading the law books, and there is the reality of actually applying those laws in real life. I'm just telling you this since you obviously live in fantasy-land.
Basically, you don't know what you're talking about. And there is no way I'm going to take the time to justify why. There isn't room for two people in your strange little world." In other words, R/I/R is saying that anyone
who quotes the law, other than judges, attorneys and police of course, and if what is being quoted is not in keeping with their whims, then the person quoting the law is a whacko, kook, crazy, criminal, etc.
R/I/R threw out a number of other statements, most of them inflammatory and all of which basically sidestepped the issues I brought up and serve only to further confuse the people reading this webpage. However, he did bring up
a few interesting points. Here they are:
Regarding "Judicial Watch" and "WorldNetDaily.com", and "Newsmax.com", I receive regular mailings from Judicial Watch and from multiple other similar organizations whose names I forget. I have found these organizations
to generally beat around the bush and not attempt to, in any manner, correct the real problems facing this country today. However, Liberty Lobby and The Spotlight, the newspaper that it publishes, are good organizations. I
currently receive The Spotlight. I wonder why R/I/R didn't mention those organizations? In any event, Liberty Lobby once published the full text of
"The Constitution for the Newstates of America," a document of pure communism and pure treason that Rexford G. Tugwell and collaborators created around 1975. I wonder if R/I/R is even aware of this treasonous document?
Regarding "vetothegovernor.org," I came across that just two days ago and have already gotten a few copies of the petition. Does R/I/R support the recall of Mr. Gray Davis? If he does, then I am truly surprised.
Regarding the seizure laws, this is also an area that I feel has gotten WAY out of control. In my job, I never really dealt with the huge drug seizures that you would see on the news when an agency such as Miami PD would seize a million dollar yacht because the people on board were transporting drugs. It is my own personal opinion that those seizure laws have gotten way out of hand, because they started getting the "green light" from the courts to go ahead and seize all sorts of property BEFORE the case went to trial. So even if the defendants were found "not guilty" at a jury trial, their yacht or cars or whatever had already been legally seized and sold at auction, with the money going to the police department that did the seizing originally. To me, this is un-American. I believe in the "innocent until proven guilty" thing, and by punishing the people with seizure of property before a conviction is extremely wrong. Even though the defendants might be totally guilty but they were found not guilty by a jury for whatever reason, that is okay with me. As long as it went through the process, that is the way America works. It's not a perfect system by any means, but it's the best one I've seen yet. However, when it comes to weapon seizures by the police, I have been personally involved in several of those over the years. But there have never been any incidents in my career where I have seized a weapon, and not given it back after the legal time period has passed. I'm referring to the reasons I was talking about in the earlier posts. But of course, I have taken weapons as "evidence" as a crime and kept them in the property division until the trial. Then, depending on the outcome of the trial, the weapons(s) are either destroyed by order of the court if the suspect was found guilty, or the weapon(s) are returned to the suspect by order of the court if he/she was found not guilty (or dismissed for lack of evidence or whatever). The reason behind destroying the weapons is a pretty logical one, in my opinion. If a suspect is arrested, for example, for being a convicted felon in possession of a loaded pistol concealed on his person and at the trial phase of this incident, he is found guilty by a jury of his peers, then it would make absolutely no sense at all to then return the gun to him. That sort of defeats the whole purpose of taking the gun from him in the first place. So the weapon is just destroyed. For people who are "gun nuts" (using the phrase jokingly, but referring to serious gun collectors, etc), it is a shame to watch when the day comes to take the weapons for disposal. The property clerk (which is an unarmed civilian) gets escorted by several police officers to an undisclosed location where the weapons are totally destroyed by a machine. The whole thing is videotaped for the records, and all serial numbers/case numbers are checked and double-checked by others to prove that the weapons were indeed destroyed and not given to someone or sold, or whatever. It eliminates all doubt about what happens to them should the public ever question what we do with them. Not all departments do this, but our department was brought up with a great police chief who unfortunately just passed away. He retired about 10 years ago, but his legacy has continued on of having a VERY ethical and moral group of cops. It was a pleasure to work there, and I miss it a lot. If you can believe this, he had a firm policy of "no gratuities" for ANY police employee---anywhere, anytime, or anything. He would talk to us about "the most expense cup of free coffee of your life". What he meant by this is, if any one of his officers or other employees (but mainly the officers) was ever caught getting anything free from any business or citizen, even a cup of coffee, then that employee would be fired on the spot--no questions asked. He was totally serious about this, and as a result, nobody to this day receives a freebie. It puts us (the cops) in awkward situations at times because, on the rare times that I would eat at a restaurant instead of brown-bagging it, the waitress at the cash register would give an automatic discount to us. But we would have to stand there and sometimes argue with them, trying to explain what would happen if we took the discount. Some restaurant chains, such as "Marie Calendars" and "Chili's" to name a few, have a button on their cash register that says "UNIFORM", meaning it is the button they push when the police come to eat there. It takes their food bill and takes 50% off the price. It is the corporate policy of those restaurants to give half-price to all cops who eat there, on and off duty. The restaurants do it because they love having the police eat there. It's great advertising for them because when people see the police regularly eating at a certain location, then people will notice that and think to themselves "the food must be good if the cops are always eating there". Not only that, but that's just a courtesy and a little "thank you" that they like to do for us, which is greatly appreciated. However, we just are not allowed to accept the discount. It really does offend some restaurant managers and owners, and we feel bad about it. But it's either that or get fired, so the choice is obvious.
I'm not sure how I got onto that tangent, but anyway, I stick to my original position that the weapon seizure laws that we now have in California for domestic violence and when a person is a danger to himself/others is a great law and it has saved countless lives, and continues to save lives. Since there are no charges for it and the people get everything back in a few days anyway, I think it's a wonderful system. Just my opinion of course.
Federal and State law enforcement have been seizing several billions
of property per year under a long established theory that the
"property itself commits a crime". This theory was strongly
reinforced some years back by Congress (and most state legislatures)
to combat the drug trade. I'm sure you're aware of this.
I sincerely doubt weapons are excluded from these seizure laws.
Given the circumstances you describe, the DA may have raised this
issue and perhaps others. Good move if so. There are not quite as
many laws to seize weapons as there are to stop vehicles; but
getting close. It would be interesting to know how some of
these laws fit (or in some cases, don't fit) in with the W&I laws you describe.
There are simply too many guns and too many people; and gun control
laws just won't stop 500 or so people from getting shot, stabbed,
or beaten to death, annually, in every major city. You're right;
the laws we DO have save lives, particularly innocent bystanders.
I have three 'personal' gun control laws: 1) always hit your target,
2) don't let anyone shoot you with your own gun, and 3) store guns
and ammunition in separate rooms. The zeroeth law, of course, is
there is no such thing as an unloaded gun.
This won't surprise you: I had my entire personal gun collection
seized (replevin) in 1976. They were returned in 1983. Replevin means
a 'third party' claimed ownership. This was the only bright spot during
my 26 year battle with our 'wonderful legal system'. Oddly enough, they didn't seize any
of the bolts, firing pins, slides, and a few other 'key weapons parts'.
I'll let you guess
why that happened and how it fits in with my 'personal gun control laws'.
The third party decided it was too expensive to get replacement
parts from the manufacturers and dropped the suit. I also got to
claim the 1000 dollar bond the 'third party' had to post to make the
replevin action.
In closing, I'll add the 'third party' was NOT the alleged policeman
in my earlier posts; but I'm sure you might guess the 'third party'
had some influence over the activities of the alleged policeman.
Perhaps the above sheds light on the 'personal disagreement' that
the judge extemporaneously added to my court order. I really don't
know. I do know the judge was a partner in the law firm belonging
to the 'third party'; before, after, but (officially) not during
his judgeship.
I need to post a quick follow-up to the original question that you asked about the seizure of weapons from people. I don't know how I missed it, but I did not see Alec's response to my post until now. I just wanted to set the record straight so that you have the right information. It's up to you who to believe, and I have no control over that. But I do like to do my best to make sure false information is not being spread by people that have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Just so you know, everything that I originally said in my response to your question remains true. Alec's information is, well, just consider the source. Hopefully, that's all I need to say about that.
There is one circumstance, however, that I can think of where we did seize a weapon from a gentleman and we did not give it back to him within the proper time frame. The reason for this was because the original charge he was arrested on was a very violent "domestic violence" incident in which some pretty serious injuries were inflicted upon his wife. Basically, she got the you-know-what beat out of her. When the suspect was in jail, he kept calling his wife at home telling her that he was going to kill her as soon as he gets his gun back from the police. He made these threats to her several times from jail, and then again when he was released from jail. If I remember correctly, we actually issued an "emergency protective order" for her which is supposed to prevent him from having any contact with her--in person or on the phone. Of course, he violated that order within one hour of being released from jail. He came over to the house and scared the sh*t out of his wife, again threating to kill her as soon as he got his gun back from us. In this specific case, our detectives did some follow-up activity with the district attorney's office to do whatever was possible to keep the gun beyond the normal holding period. So when the 10th day arrived (or whatever the holding time is---I can't remember now) and he came to the police station to pick up his gun, we would not give it back to him. This is because the property clerk (who holds all property, including guns) had orders from the D/A not to release the gun to him and there was some sort of court order that would be forthcoming that would order the police not to return the weapon. I was not directly involved in that aspect of the case, so I don't know the particulars of it. But I do remember the case because it was an unusual one, and several of the watch commanders brought this topic up at briefing for us to discuss and learn from it. The thing that we were told is basically yes, if there are extreme circumstances where the sanity and/or behavior of the gun owner is in question and is a threat to himself or others, then we were obligated for public safety reasons not to release the gun. I don't know what the end result was of this case, but now that I'm talking about it, I would like to know just for the heck of it. I'm retired, so it doesn't matter any more if I know the current status of that procedure. But just for my own information, I would like to know.
The temporary gun seizure law is an outstanding one, and I know for a fact that it has saved lives. Absolutely, no doubt about it. It's not a criminal process, and the owner gets everything back after the temporary period of several days. Regarding Alec's remarks about the police "discretion" of these things, we don't have any. There is NO discretion in certain cases, and this is one of those cases. (A few others where the police have no discretion is: domestic violence arrests, reporting child abuse, elder abuse, and a few more. In other words, the police are mandated to act on those incidents, with zero discretion at all. This gun seizure law is one of those things where we have no discretion---if the law says to give back the gun after a certain amount of days, then we must give it back---period.) And regarding Alec's additional remarks of knowing this has "happened to several people", I again can only say consider the source. This is one of the rare laws that the legislature has come out with relating to guns that is actually great. We'll never know the actual number of lives that have been saved as a result of this law, but I'm sure it's a significant number. Alec also talks about the police wanting to strip the people completely of their weapons for the new world order. Well, besides considering the source here as well, also consider this: Police officers in general are one of the largest pro-gun groups of people you will ever find. Most cops strongly believe in the 2nd Amendment, belong to the NRA, and promote personal gun ownership. Why would cops "shoot themselves in the foot" (so to speak) by wanting to strip people of their guns? Any laws that come out prohibiting gun ownership generally apply to the police as well (off duty). So once again, it's an absolutey ludicrous notion that he has come up with. You now have the information from two sides, mine and Alec's. You can believe whichever one you would like to, but I have no motive to make these things up, and I have no agenda other than to have a good debate with somebody about a topic in which I have strong opinions.
Hmmm, and that's not a person that already has his mind made up---no matter what? After all, if he wants to rebut everything that I post, I would call that a bit dilusional. Hey Alec--right now in the Bay Area, it's about 72 degrees outside and the skies are clear. They are predicting it to be unusually warm this afternoon---possibly reaching 100 degrees by 3PM. Don't forget, you have to rebut everything that I say. Because I am a secret agent of the fraud that calls itself the government, so you must expose me for the fraud that I really am. And you must expose my crimes to the people. Let them know about my crimes, please!! Let them know that I just committed weather fraud and weather treason. That's not REALLY what the weather is today, that's just what I want the people to think. After all, I'm a secret agent of the fraud that calls itself our government so I must be lying.
He also writes: "My ultimate intent is to expose, or assist in the exposure of, the fraud that calls itself our public
government for what it really is to the people of this country so that they can get rid of it."
Um, okay. Let's say you accompish this huge goal. Then what? What do you intend on replacing it with? After all, the government is one of the largest employers in the country. You will be creating one of the largest unemployment rates in the history of this country. The ENTIRE structure of the "fraud that calls itself our government" will be gone. Everything government related would have to be shut down, under your plan of course, all employees terminated (because we can't have secret agents working for our fraudelent government), all libraries shut down, all City Halls shut down, all garbage collection service shut down, water service shut down, gas, electricity, (in areas where those service are government run), police, fire, public works, DMV, IRS, the FDIC that guarantees the money in our banking accounts, the Post Office, etc, etc, etc---the list is almost never-ending. So now, we have the best damn country in the world (that's the USA in case you didn't know) come to a complete halt. The stock market crashes and people lose money, chaos and panic spread, there is no order, life becomes miserable for all, riots are everywhere, looting, people dying---our quality of life, and our freedoms, are gone. And this is all because of Alec's great plan to end things as we know them. Listen ALec, you are a NUT! I will say it again--you are so deeply buried in your "conspiracy theories" and you are so incredibly paranoid that it simply is not normal. I'm trying to figure out why you don't see this? But I guess I already know my answer, as I have had contact with so many nuts over the years. I guess I shouldn't call them "nuts"--the technical term is probably "emotionally disturbed person". It's an illness, just like any other illness, and it can be treated. But you are definitely one of the most interesting that I have run across. That's one of the reason why you have caught my attention so much. You rarely have a grammatical or spelling error, indicating that you are educated and intelligent. But something happened along the way to make you like this. You have given away so many little clues in your ramblings that most people can see you for who you truly are.
Additionally, you have copied/pasted this quote from me at least 4 or 5 times now, and I'm sick of seeing it without it being put in it's proper context. Here is what I wrote, and what you have quoted so many times now:
"I can tell you from personal experience that if somebody comes to me (as a police officer) ranting and raving like a lunatic, throwing things out like "Constitution" and court cases and other things that you mentioned in your post, I will not really listen to what you are saying. I will basically just hear "blah blah blah blah"."
Did you read the entire paragraph? Did you see the context in which it was written? You probably did, but again, part of your mental illness is to pick out the things that you want, change them around in your sick mind, and have them come out meaning something else. It's actually been humurous to me to watch you do this, time and time again. It's hilarious how many times you have mis-quoted what I say. Not mis-quoted as in changing the words around, but mis-quoted as in taken things totally out of context to meet your agenda. I think you need a refresher of what that entire statement said, so I have done you the favor of reprinting it below for your edification:
Prior to my above quote, I wrote the following: "If this is in fact true, then I question the significance of the topic of conversation you brought up to him."
After my "blah blah blah" quote, I then wrote this: "I'm not saying that to be dis-respectful, but I am saying this so that you know about human nature and more specifically, the police."
I guess the truth hurts you Alec. You don't like being told that you are basically a lunatic. I have tried to point some very basic, very human-nature things to you, yet you continue to turn these statements into other things. The police deal with all sorts of people every day of the week, 24 hours a day. Most of the cops have a pretty good "feel" for people. Just like any occupation, if they want to remain employed, then they must follow the rules of that occupation. In the case of the police, they must follow the policies of their department as well as all laws. Not the laws as you state them, but the laws that are accepted by the society in general. If you were to come up to me, when I was working as a police officer, and tell me that I was really a "secret agent" of the Federal Reserve (or whatever it is that you say---I can't keep track of it any more), do you know what I'm going to think? I'm going to think you're a nut. Pretty much ANY cop out there will think that, because part of our job is to size-up people so that we know who we are dealing with, so that we can go home in one piece to our families at the end of the day. Part of your mental illness is extremely evident here, as you continue to post my "blah blah" quote over and over again. You obviously don't understand my point to this, which is why I'm explaining it to you one last time. If you would like to test what I am saying if you don't believe me, then pick out any police officer that you choose. Walk up to him or her, and tell them that they are a secret agent of the Federal Reserve (or whatever), and that they are guilty of fraud, treason, theft, and all of these other things that you claim. Go ahead---do it. See what kind of reaction you get from ANY cop in ANY part of the country. Oh wait, maybe that won't work. Because your paranoid mind thinks that they are all conspiring together as "secret agents"---I forgot.
And one more thing, how dare you claim my laziness (and whatever other garbage it was that you wrote) for not "arresting" all of these judges, bailiffs, attorneys, police officers, etc, since I'm now retired. First, you say that I should have gone out and done all of these things because it's my job to "serve the public", and I am not "serving" you by arresting judges and district attorneys. What nonsense you spew--what in the hell is wrong with you anyway? So then when I come back and tell you that it's not required by ANY law for a retired police officer to take the kind of action that you say should be taken, then you go on to claim that I am lazy and hiding behind laws and therefore, I am guilty of (whatever). How dare you sir! You have NO idea what my medical condition or capabilities are, and I am extremely offended by your statement. I gave my life for my occupation of serving the citizens of the State Of California. Forever, I am now disabled with constant reminders, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, of my disability from being seriously injured on duty by a suspect. I have a spotless service record, with NUMEROUS citizen inititated commendation letters to prove my worth to the community that I served. I am proud of my service as a police officer. I made a lot friends in the community, and built up a tremendous amount of trust with the people on my beat. Not only did the law-abiding citizens know me and wave to me, but so did the gang members. Yes, I am DAMN proud of what I have accomplished in my career and the people whose lives I have touched over the years by going the extra step, and caring about their problem. Unlike idiots like you, that do nothing but complain about this great country that we live in. I know darn well that the majority of people in this country support and respect the police, and it is only a small majority that does not. And it is even a smaller majority of people like you, that are mentally ill and have an agenda that is ludicrous and insane. Your goal has no purpose. And it's obvious that you are a thorn in the side of society. You talk about all of the encounters that you have had with police in all of these different cities (Hawthorne, Torrance, Long Beach, etc) and the court systems and judges that you have confronted, and the FBI that you have contacted. Oh boy, you sure have gotten far in your quest to reveal "the truth" to the people. Sick minds like yours unfortunately can not see this, and that is a shame. You are on a dead-end quest, do you realize that? No sane person will listen to (or understand) the ramblings that you write. And as I pointed out earlier, if things did change to the way that you wanted them to be, then everything that our forefathers have fought for and given their lives for would be lost. You are a drain on society, and nobody is interested. Well, nobody sane that is. As I have said in previous postings, right at the beginning of some of your statements, you make some sense. I actually agree with you that our country has some serious problems right now, and there is major corruption at the highest levels of our federal and state governments. Why don't you put your energy there, where you can actually DO something other than whining about "secret agents". Why don't you DO something to make society a better place for everybody? Since I have been retired, I have been amazed at how much can be done from the home, on computer. Letters to the editor, letters to Congress, support of groups like "Judicial Watch" and "WorldNetDaily.com", and "Newsmax.com" are excellent examples. Get a hold of the petition to "veto the governor" and go around your neighborhood getting people to sign the petition. You can find this information at "vetothegovernor.org". In other words, put your energies and talents towards something useful where you can actually accomplish something. There is also a public drive right now to recall Governor Davis, and volunteers are needed to circulate petitions to get enough signatures to make it happen. Do something useful with your time.
My ultimate intent is to expose, or assist in the exposure of, the fraud that calls itself our public government for what it really is to the people of this country so that they can get rid of it. If R/I/R thinks that I mean violence here (do I sense paranoia on his part?), then R/I/R has another think coming.
"2)You are obviously a person who knows nothing about case law decisions, as well as the "spirit of the law" and how it applies itself in real life. You quote all of these laws like everything is followed in black and white just becuase it's written. There is the fantasy-land of reading the law books, and there is the reality of actually applying those laws in real life. I'm just telling you this since you obviously live in fantasy-land. Basically, you don't know what you're talking about. And there is no way I'm going to take the time to justify why. There isn't room for two people in your strange little world." In other words, R/I/R is saying that anyone who quotes the law, other than judges, attorneys and police of course, and if what is being quoted is not in keeping with their whims, then the person quoting the law is a whacko, kook, crazy, criminal, etc.
Against my will of course, I have, in the past been forced into, shall we say, intimate relationships with the fraud that calls itself our public government. It is not pretty. It is extremely draining on mind, spirit and soul.
The most comprehensive way to describe the so called officers you are forced to deal with there is: new-age neo-facist, Orwellian (does anyone remember 1984 by George Orwell?), high-handed arrogant aristocrats in the case of judges and attorneys, and surfer-boy punks in the case of police. The continual portraying of their brutal and systematic attacks, mostly of a mental and spiritual nature, against the people unfortunate enough to be the subjects of their attacks as being "enlightened, open, fair, moral, consciencious, lawful, legitimate, etc. principles and behavior" is something that stinks to High Heaven. This psychological counseling crap that R/I/R continues to spew out at me is an integral part of the ugly insides of the fraud that calls itself our public government and is just another tool that the fraud that calls itself our public government uses to work someone over. The so called psychological medicines and drugs, that are in far too common use today, are just about the absolute worst things imaginable for someone to be subjected to. They are deadly poison to the mind, the body and the spirit. These days, it is far too easy for the fraud that calls itself our public government to be able to pull someone into its web and subject them to "psychological counseling and drug therapy." R/I/R, by continuously trying to push this psychological treatment crap on me and then issuing his threat of September 25, 1999 to me on top of that, has become a grave threat to me. If anything, it is he that is guilty of terrorist threats against me as stated by Section 422 of the California Penal Code. I know that he will never be charged with that because the fraud that calls itself our public government is enormously biased in his favor. Literally, R/I/R is trying to kill my mind, spirit and soul. And R/I/R calls me paranoid?
By the Grace of GOD, I managed to survive the "intimate experiences" I was forced to have with the fraud that calls itself our public government. The lesson I learned from those experiences was: (1) NEVER AGAIN and (2) PRAY TO GOD CONTINUOUSLY to protect me and keep me away from this fraud that calls itself our public government. In his delusion, R/I/R continues to believe and to push forth the absurdity that "I am not sane and that I need psychological help and treatment" simply because I stand on my GOD GIVEN RIGHTS to remain free and separate from the fraud that calls itself our public government and because I realize and accept that one of the necessary conditions for me to achieve that goal is to work towards eliminating the fraud that calls itself our public government because of its invasive and destructive nature. Lest, R/I/R try to claim that I am "advocating violence" and that I therefore "need psychological help and treatment," let me emphasize that the elimination of this fraud that calls itself our public government NEED NOT BE VIOLENT. If R/I/R had bothered just one tiny little bit to pay attention to anything on my website, then he would perhaps be able to grasp that making the money system in this country again lawful under the United States Constitution (i.e. eliminating the fraudulent debt and its notes), eliminating the aristocracies that currently control the courts in this country, and putting God fearing and God serving people in charge of the courts in this country would be sufficient to eliminate the fraud that calls itself our public government, at least for now.
Finally, to put to rest another one of R/I/R's delusions, namely his absurd claim that "I would harm someone or myself," let me state that I have, to date, never harmed anyone, have no intention of harming anyone, can take care of myself just fine and will remain perfectly fine provided that I remain completely, totally and utterly free of this fraud that calls itself our public government.
The article for Connecticut implied the seizure was permanent. I haven't seen the actual statute. Nice to see California has a return policy. A month or more would be better in the situations you describe.
No law keeps 'the wrong persons' from obtaining guns, unfortunately, or any other weapon. I haven't fired a weapon since 1971. With any luck, I'll never fire one for the rest of my life.
I used to love to hunt white-tail deer. But, after 25 years of unscrupulous people hunting me; I completely lost interest in hunting anything. Sometimes, I'd like to shoot this computer; so, I keep guns, hammers, and heavy objects out of the computer room.
What R/I/R doesn't say is that everything is subject to police and court "discretion." And that in practice means that the police will openly break that law requiring them to return the weapons and say: "sue us or get a court order." The court, in turn, will do its best to jerk you around in endless proceedings, attempt to force you to pay costly attorney's fees, or both. Remember R/I/R's statements to me, on multiple occasions, all of which basically said:
In the rare event that you do finally somehow compel the court to give you that order and assuming that the police choose to obey that order, then you receive the weapons only, minus whatever ammunition the police might have been able to steal from you. How do I know this? Because, I have personally seen it happen to several people, all of which got caught up in the system because they had to physically protect themselves or someone they knew at some point.
So, I hope you were being sarcastic when you said to R/I/R: "Good law." No law is good as long as demons like R/I/R and his masters control the government.
Regarding all of the other garbage that he spews forth, please remember where he is coming from and what type of person that he is, specifically:
"Judges threaten you with contempt of court and arrest, you try to go to court for a citizen's arrest against the DA of LA County. I will say this again---if you don't see the absolute craziness in what you are doing, then I give up. Your mind is too far gone." So Ira Reiner is above the law as far as R/I/R is concerned and
he consistently forgets (as he again did this latest time) that it wasn't me who tried to have Ira Reiner arrested.
"Try to picture that for a moment if you will--a street cop, getting paid by the hour, gets approached by some guy spurting off case law, Constitutional references, etc.....That cop won't give you the time of the day (unless he's taking you on a 72 hour hold). Cops are just that---cops." Does anyone remember Hitler's goons, all of which were tried and many of which were executed for 'just doing their job.?'"
"I checked out your web page, and it was more legal-ese than I care to read. But I did notice you were quoting law decisions from the 1920's and the 1930's. Surely that's not your "evidence" that you go to court with is it? If so, my God, no wonder you get kicked out of court. Think about it."
"And he [Citizen Target] writes this too: "You know damn well I'm required to obey those 'old laws' ... thousands and thousands of them. You're telling me YOU are NOT REQUIRED to obey any of those 'old laws'. You're telling me no Law Enforcement Officer is required to obey any of those 'old laws'."
"2)You are obviously a person who knows nothing about case law decisions, as well as the "spirit of the law" and how it applies itself in real life. You quote all of these laws like everything is followed in black and white just becuase it's written. There is the fantasy-land of reading the law books, and there is the reality of actually applying those laws in real life. I'm just telling you this since you obviously live in fantasy-land. Basically, you don't know what you're talking about. And there is no way I'm going to take the time to justify why. There isn't room for two people in your strange little world." In other words, R/I/R is saying that anyone who quotes the law, other than judges, attorneys and police of course, and if what is being quoted is not in keeping with their whims, then the person quoting the law is a whacko, kook, crazy, criminal, etc. This is how R/I/R is covertly admitting that he considers himself, his police officer cohorts, and the judges and attorneys that they are protecting to be above the law. Why do I say that R/I/R will attack anyone? Simple. It isn't just me that he has directed this garbage to. See below.
"It's unfortunate, but EDP's (Emotionally Disturbed Persons) are a huge threat to police officers. We never know what they are going to do, or how they are going to react. They are irrational thinkers, and can become very violent very quickly." What R/I/R refuses to see is that, if the police didn't butt their ugly nose into the people's personal lives to begin with, there would never be a problem. In any event, these days, this is the most popular stereotype (notice the acronym, as if an EDP were some type of object) that police use to cover up their crimes against the people. It is also the most popular means of smearing anyone who knows the law and attempts to use the law to get remedy for the police's aggressions. My question is, why don't they just openly admit that they are at war with the people and be honest? Perhaps, because the people would then realize just how much of a danger they are to the people and would take them to the cleaners? What cowards, liars, thieves, traitors, spies and saboteurs!
"Citizen Target: I give up. I tried my best to have a decent discussion with you, and to even help to find out what sort of wrongs were done against you by the police. But the sky is definitely a different color on your planet. Take care." Here is another example of R/I/R attacking someone who attempts to use the law to get remedy against police and court aggressions.
What the people reading this guestbook need to do now is to get as many others as possible to read this entire guestbook, visit my website, and become aware of the implications of all this and of the deadly danger that R/I/R, his police officer cohorts, and the judges and attorneys that they protect, present to the people of this country as a whole.
I guess I should have made it a little more clear. I said I would not respond to your garbage any more, meaning all of the "fraud, treason, secret agent" crap any more. That's useless, and you are obviously a disturbed man. I find it interesting that each time I write something, you are so worried that I'm trying to get in "the last word". Does that mean that every time you post something to a message board, and somebody responds directly to what you've written, that they are trying to get in the last word? In a warped mind like yours, I suppose maybe it does appear that way.
Just out of curiosity, you still haven't really answered any questions that I have ever asked of you. Well, you did answer the question about you not being the caller to the AM radio stations. But it took you a few paragraphs and a bunch of ranting and raving to finally get to the answer. But what I'm wondering is, exactly what crimes have I committed? You keep mentioning all of this weird stuff that makes no sense. I'm wondering if you can specifically say that I violated section (whatever) because i specifically did (whatever). And what about the powers that you have? Why haven't you taken any of the action that I supposedly could have? A citizen has the same arrest powers in California as a peace officer, with one exception (alleged certain crimes not committed in the presence of citizens). Oh wait---that's right, you have tried a couple of times but just got laughed out of court, then were threatened with being arrested for contempt of court. But I'm sure you did nothing wrong---it's everyone else in the world that is secrectly conspiring against you and you are the one that is perfectly sane. I keep forgetting to remember that. You really are a character, you know that? I'm getting a kick out of reading your answers. Can I have your permission to print your postings out, and submit them to a company that trains police officers all over the world? This stuff is priceless and would be good for other cops to see. Even if you say no, I'll check into the legality of something posted on the web that any member of the public can see for free. I have no idea what the rules are on that, but this will probably generate a 10 paragraph blithering response from you about a 1918 court decision in which a criminal (judge) made a ruling in a court of attornment (criminal trial)---there, when I talk like you do the words make a little more sense? heh heh heh...
And lastly, I'm wondering what your bottom line is. You have created web pages, you post long and confusing diatribes that make many conflicting and very incorrect statements (no, I'm not going to point them out. I'm not insane like you), and you seem to place the blame on everyone else in the world. I'm curious as to what it is you really want. If you had a magic wand and could wave it to create your wishes, what exactly is it you are trying to accomplish? I sure can't figure it out, but that doesn't surprise me either considering the source. My offer to help you still stands. If you need referral information, just let me know and I will get it to you.
Anyways, here is the necessary point for point rebuttal in order to prevent him from, once again, misleading the people reading this website. Keep in mind that I am fully aware of the fact that if someone repeats a lie long enough that everyone listening or reading could begin to believe that lie to be the truth. I also believe that R/I/R is fully aware of that fact also and is using it as a tactic here at this website. Someone has to counter his tactics and keep him from misleading the people here and I guess it is up to me for now. As before, his comments are in blue to point them out.
1) By chance, are you the guy that calls up the AM talk-radio stations all the time claiming that John Lennon was murdered by Stephen King? The last part of your recent post is why I'm asking that question.
2)You are obviously a person who knows nothing about case law decisions, as well as the "spirit of the law" and how it applies itself in real life. You quote all of these laws like everything is followed in black and white just becuase it's written. There is the fantasy-land of reading the law books, and there is the reality of actually applying those laws in real life. I'm just telling you this since you obviously live in fantasy-land. Basically, you don't know what you're talking about. And there is no way I'm going to take the time to justify why. There isn't room for two people in your strange little world.
Good attempt at reading the law books though, and thinking that I'm guilty of not acting upon all of these arrests. Retired police officers don't fall under the same legal obligations, so I am not required to act upon anything. Furthermore, before I got injured on-duty and I was still working full-time, none of the information that you spoke of is accurate. If you knew anything about case law, you would know this. Again, you live in a fantasy world, thinking that you're some kind of fancy, high paid lawyer. You need help---do you understand? Listen, if you want to get help but don't want to talk about it on the list, then e-mail me offline. That's a real address that is posted. I will gladly refer you to free psychiatric services in your area. It doesn't even have to be a "shrink"---it could just be a counselor. Contact me if you're interested and I will help.
The true facts are:
nowhere did I say I would do anything. I am simply making statements of
fact about what the so called government here in the United States is and
what the implications are for the people in this country. Personally, I
would rather see no violence in this country. However R/I/R, his police
officer cohorts, and the criminals that they are protecting, are committing
nothing less than ongoing treason as well as other crimes against the
people and sovereignty of this country. In simple terms, they are driving
the people of this country into poverty, slavery, and total abject misery.
How long before this degenerates into violence? It is already happening
now.
The following is a point for point rebuttal to R/I/R's latest posting, and
his threat to me. His statements from that latest posting are in blue in
order to clearly point them out.
" Ira Reiner and all who protect him, including R/I/R, can legally be
gunned down wherever they might be found."
Alec, be careful here. You are skating on very thin ice sir. I honestly
and truly believe you to be a nut, a whacko, and very dangerous. When you
write something like that, I take it very seriously. I will NOT hesitate
to file felony criminal charges aginst you for terrorist threats---422 of
the California Penal Code.
Furthermore, on Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 16:57:32 (MDT), the following
was posted:
On September 23, 1997, two people made a written threat against me, to
wit: "...and we ask you again to get rid of him. He is going to get hurt!!"
The two people who made that written threat against me signed their names
to that written threat. I showed the written threat to the Long Beach
Police and asked them to prosecute those people under Section 422 of the
California Penal Code. The Long Beach Police refused, claiming that that
written threat against me was insufficient evidence! Of course, I seriously
wondered at the time what the Long Beach Police considered sufficient
evidence. Perhaps me being maimed or killed! In that instance, it did
nearly come to just that!
Yet, now R/I/R claims that he has sufficient evidence to file charges
against me under Section 422 of the California Penal
Code based on my posting of Saturday, September 25, 1999 at 19:36:13 (MDT)?
What about the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution? What about
equal protection under the law? Does everyone see that R/I/R and his police
officer cohorts consider themselves in a class superior to the common
person, and, in this particular case, me? Does everyone see that R/I/R, and
his police officer cohorts, truly believe that they are entitled to commit
crimes against whoever they want and when those people attempt to get
recourse, they truly believe that they are entitled to label those people
"criminals" and to take those people out under color of law using fabricated
"charges?"
Again, regarding Section 142 of the California Penal Code, in my posting
of Thursday, August 05, 1999 at 16:32:04 (MDT), I included a formal
statement detailing how someone who had been robbed of a $5 million estate
attempted to get remedy, in the Torrance courts, against those who had
robbed him of that estate and against the government officials who protected
those who robbed him of that estate. Of the government officials in
question, one, in particular, Mr. Ira Reiner, even tampered with the 1986
and 1987 Los Angeles County Grand Juries in order to protect the theft of
the estate. The formal statement that I posted was specific enough for
R/I/R to take action on under Section 142. For example, it named all of
the government officials who protected the theft of the estate. Obviously,
he took no action. Instead,
he came back with the following absurdity, and more (read his postings):
Regarding Section 830.1 of the
California Penal Code, he recognizes that Janet Reno is a "crook" and that
"her department is crooked." Again, read his past postings to this
guestbook. In other words, he recognizes that she has
and is continuing to commit crimes against the people of this country.
Under Section 830.1, he has the power to effect her arrest. Under Section
142, he is obligated to effect her arrest because she has
obviously committed crimes against the People of the State of California.
Obviously, he has refused to act in this instance as well.
If he knows the laws of California as he so claims, then why hasn't he
acted in any of the above instances?
So, R/I/R is/was a law enforcement officer, and picks and chooses which
laws he will or won't follow, even when it comes to the California Penal
Code. This, of course, is in complete contradiction to the statements he
made in his posting of Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 06:08:49 (MDT).
For everyone's information here,
this practice is known as selective enforcement of the law by people who
understand the fraud that calls itself our public government. This denies
everyone the equal protection under the law as guaranteed by the 14th
Amendment to the United States Constitution. R/I/R, in one of his earlier
postings to me, demanded to know what laws he was violating that would
warrant his arrest. Well, here is the answer to his demand.
Most terrifying perhaps is that R/I/R will attempt to
selectively use the California Penal against those who do not please his
whims, whenever he sees an opportunity to do so.
Does everyone see just how dangerous he, and his police officer cohorts,
truly are? Does everyone see that
he is trying to threaten me with the California Penal Code in order to
prevent me from spreading the truth about what he and his police officer
cohorts are, and what the people
could or might do about it? In other words, he is infringing on my right
to freedom of speech and my right to spread evidence, with the intent
of keeping the people of this country in perpetual ignorance, slavery and
abject misery.
However, R/I/R can make no
such comparable claim since he has consistently refused to refute any of
the evidence that I have brought forth. For the record, cheap comebacks
and ad hoc statements such as:
In closing, the late John Lennon summed it up quite clearly in his song
Working Class Hero in 1970: "a working class hero is something to be, keep
you doped with religion, sex and TV, and you think you're so clever and
classless and free, but you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see."
The late Mr. Lennon also said in that same song "there is room at the top,
they are telling you still. But, first, you
must learn how to smile as you kill if you want to be like the folks on
the hill." I must add that most of the killing that the late Mr. Lennon
was referring to is mental and spiritual killing. The late Mr. Lennon was
referring to the highest officers of
the government of the United States. The late Mr. Lennon's son, Julian
Lennon, is convinced that the CIA murdered his father. There are many
other people who agree with him.
Another final note. There is a joke
that needs to be said here: "if you go to an engineer, or a scientist, and
you ask 'what is two times two,' they would immediately answer 'four.'
If you go to an attorney and ask that same question, the attorney will
stop, ponder the question for a moment and then say 'what do you want it
to be?'" The implications of this little joke are indeed ominous.
Mr. Retired/Injured/Retarded, for the record, I am a scientist, and a
college graduate. Mr. Retired/Injured/Retarded, again for the record, I
have been in the military, as a commissioned officer and, given that I
received an honorable discharge, still hold that commission. In accepting
that commission, I took an oath to uphold and protect the United States
Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Considering that
I still hold that commission, and despite the honorable discharge, I am still
bound by that oath and I take that oath fully and seriously. Did you ever
take such an oath to uphold and protect the United States Constitution?
If you didn't, then you are not competent to have become a police officer
in this country and one needs to ask how and why you ever got to be one.
In fact, you can not even be a citizen here without
taking such an oath. Did you know that? If you did take such an oath,
then, based on what you said in your posting of Tuesday, July 06, 1999 at
11:32:43 (MDT), and specifically:
Good law.
The article for Connecticut implied the seizure was permanent. I haven't seen the actual statute. Nice to see California has a return policy. A month or more would be better in the situations you describe.
No law keeps 'the wrong persons' from obtaining guns, unfortunately, or any other weapon. I haven't fired a weapon since 1971. With any luck, I'll never fire one for the rest of my life.
I used to love to hunt white-tail deer. But, after 25 years of unscrupulous people hunting me; I completely lost interest in hunting anything. Sometimes, I'd like to shoot this computer; so, I keep guns, hammers, and heavy objects out of the computer room.
Also, the same thing is done when there is a domestic violence incident. However, it does not fall under the W&I code as above. It falls under the penal code. If there is an incident that qualifies legally as "domestic violence", then weapons are also taken at that time. And again, after a short time period, all weapons are given back. There are no criminal charges in either case for the weapons and nothing appears on a person's criminal record. It's simply a small thing that the police can do to try and save a life. When somebody needs emergency psychiatric treatment, or if they are so angry that a domestic violence situation occurs, I think it's one of the best things that can be done (temporarily removing the weapons). I'm sure scores of innocent lives have been saved as a result of this. And I am a very pro-gun person for citizen's owning as many guns as they want to. But sometimes, certain people should not have them and I think that those two circumstances are clearly situations where a person should not have access to a weapon.
However, the reason I am writing is because of one thing you wrote in your last posting:
" Ira Reiner and all who protect him, including R/I/R, can legally be gunned down wherever they might be found."
Alec, be careful here. You are skating on very thin ice sir. I honestly and truly believe you to be a nut, a whacko, and very dangerous. When you write something like that, I take it very seriously. I will NOT hesitate to file felony criminal charges aginst you for terrorist threats---422 of the California Penal Code. We both live in California, and I know my laws very well. You can write whatever you want about anything you want, but be very careful about crossing that line. If I need to get a restraining order against you, I will. If I need to have you physically arrested, I will. You have so thoughtfully provided the world with your full name and address, so tracking you down is very simple. I will not come after you personally, nor is this to be taken as any such threat as I would never do that. However, I am giving you a courtesy warning that you are beginning to step into the area of criminal behavior. When you make a threat like that, and the recipient takes it seriously (as I am), that is a clear felony.
As far as the so-called "libel" against you, oh please. Get a life. This guestbook is for opinions, and people can write whatever they want as long as it's legal. I haven't called you any names---I've just called you what I believe you to be. However, if you want to talk about libel, how about you calling me a liar, retarded, a secret agent, etc, etc.? I don't take this stuff personally from a nut like you, so it doesn't bother me a bit. I'm simply pointing out that it's very interesting for you to mention libel. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black.
Yet R/I/R attempts to pass me off as a "crazy kook" because I openly post the truth about the police being foreign agents of the Federal Reserve, relying on the masses' general ignorance, gullibility and laziness to swallow whatever official sounding lies that might come their way. R/I/R tries to make me out to be a nut because I challenge the legality of the so called traffic laws and traffic courts, again relying on the masses' stupidity, laziness and willingness to swallow anything that sounds "official." R/I/R tries to pass me off as a nut case for "attempting to arrest" what he calls the "district attorney of one of the largest counties in Los Angeles." Read his previous postings. Is R/I/R trying to say that Ira Reiner is above the law? In that case, Ira Reiner and all who protect him, including R/I/R, can legally be gunned down wherever they might be found. Read the Declaration of Independence where it talks about government becoming destructive to the ends of the people and do understand that a Washington State Superior Court judge quoted it as law on 16 May 1994. Of course, R/I/R conveniently forgot that it wasn't me that attempted to place a citizen's arrest against Ira Reiner and that I so stated in my posting at the time. It was yet another person who understands the fraud that calls itself our public government. Perhaps, this happened because R/I/R is too retarded to know the difference. In that case, he is clearly incapable of having become a police officer and we must ask how and why he ever got to be one. Another, more terrifying, possibility for R/I/R trying to say that it was me who tried to get Ira Reiner arrested for his crimes, is that R/I/R is trying to make it look as if I am the only one who takes the position I do against the fraud that calls itself our public government. In reality, a lot of people have felt the effects of the fraud that calls itself our public government.
Observe R/I/R's continual attacks on my character and, in particular, his continuing libel about "me needing psychological counseling." In fact, history shows that, over and over again, that "mental and psychological problems" were used as a very effective means of suppression of the people. Of course, the United States in the past 50 years or so has been the absolute worst in this regard. The psychology and mental health "profession" in this country is rife with fraud and violence.
However, never does R/I/R, point by point, refute my evidence. In other words, phwat a fast talker. Do understand, that, if R/I/R were on trial in a real court, that, it would be precisely this kind of behavior together with evidence such as that that I am posting here that would earn R/I/R a conviction for the crimes he would have been charged with.
To all the people reading this website, starting with my first posting on July 6, 1999, read closely what I have posted and what R/I/R has been posting in response. You should be able to then see that R/I/R follows the behavior pattern I just described. In particular, observe the almost overwhelmingly nauseating manner in which he tries to protect the fraudulent court system of attornment in this country and its satanic effects on the people. Then, visit my website, which happens to the web page of mine that R/I/R referred to in his latest posting, and see more evidence against R/I/R and the satanic court officer trash he is protecting. Then, you need to decide about how R/I/R, his police officer cohorts, and the satanic court officer trash they are protecting, are going to be brought to justice for the crimes they are committing against the people of this country.
To R/I/R: do understand that your attacks on my character constitute libel against me by you and that I now have written proof of said libel. I am sure that you will no doubt continue to attack my character and give me yet more evidence of libel, if for no other reason than what I just posted to this guestbook now. However, libel is the least of your crimes. It can now be easily proven that you are clearly a liar, thief, traitor, spy, saboteur, etc. These are capital crimes for which you can be legally tried for and executed for. My only question is when will the proper court to try you in come into being?
My question to Alec is this: Just out of curiosity, and for my pure entertainment, exactly what law(s) do you have in mind that I could be arrested for? I can't wait to hear this one! No matter how you answer this question, you're backed into a corner. If you give an answer, it's going to be a ridiculous one. And if you ignore it, then it's obvious that you don't know what you're talking about. So, which route will you take now? Ignore it, or answer it?
The second comment I would like to make is, I just got finished reading one of the most hilarious legal documents I think I have ever read in my entire life. Just when I thought I'd seen it all, along comes a new one. That's what I love about life---it's always so interesting! I decided to continue pursuing my "free entertainment" of reading Alec's web pages. I read one of the previous web pages that he posted on here a while back, where he talked about trying to arrest the district attorney of Los Angeles County and his legal references which date back to before electricity! But then in his most recent posting, he invited the readers to go check out his web page. There was no way I could resist this opportunity, absolutely no way. Hey "Teh Editor"--if you're reading this, you have GOT to check this out! Make sure you read the entire thing--it is one of the funniest things I have ever seen in my life. I can see the court clerks and staff now when they read this document. I know the got a bigger kick out of it than I am now! Here is the URL that I am referring to: ../../T322404/16nov95brf.htm. There is one especially funny line in there where he talks about getting pulled over by a Torrance Police Officer, and this is what Alec writes about him, "(the police officer's name) is instead operating in secret as a foreign agent of the Federal Reserve." If I didn't know by now what kind of person Alec is, I would have thought that this was a pretty good joke that somebody had made up. But the funny this is, it's not a joke---the guy is serious! Make sure you read the part about the DMV, and how he says they committed "extortion" by telling him to pay his fine. This has got to be one of the most hilarious things I have ever seen in my life. If it was just written on a web page or in an editorial, it wouldn't be so funny. The part that makes it funny is that it's actually in a court document and that the person writing it is totally serious!
Alec, you've got a screw loose. When in the heck are you going to get some psychiatric help and start taking some meds to bring you back down to the level of a normal human being? Right now, even though I'm laughing at your supposed "court documents", I do realize the seriousness of the situation this entails when anyone in law enforcement comes into contact with you. Instead of the "routine traffic stop" of an officer giving out a speeding ticket, you will look at the officer as some secret spy from a foreign government coming after you to do whatever your warped mind thinks he or she is doing. I've learned about people like you, and I've had plenty of contact with emotionally disturbed people in my career, but you're a different breed. You're just sane enough to be dangerous, because you truly believe what you are doing is for real. All laughing aside, I hope you do find the inner strength to check yourself into a psychiatric unit to get some help, because there is help available out there. If money is a problem, don't worry. Every County in California has money set aside for emergency psychiatric services. You can check yourself in, or you can have the police do it for you. Or, if you can afford it, just go to a psychiatrist yourself. You're free to write and post anything you want to, or course. But my concern is about the safety of others. You have gotten yourself buried so deep into this stuff, you need professional help to pull yourself out of it this fantasy world you live in. Just because you start writing words like an attorney, and using paperwork within court system to get attention does not mean you know what you are doing. Because you do not---that is obvious. Look how far it has gotten you. And my final comment is this---if you truly believe in everything that you profess in your writings and in your web site, then why don't you take the full plunge and remove yourself legally from following the rules of the DMV and all of the other things you complain about? I forget what the technical word is for it, but I'm sure you know exactly what it is I'm referring to. You can legally remove yourself from being a U.S. citizen, and legally remove yourself from all of the things that people in this country must to such as paying taxes, obtaining a driver's license from the DMV, following many of the laws, etc. There is a great book on this topic, and if you search on "amazon.com", you can find it. The only catch to this is, once you have made the decision to go ahead and do this to yourself, there is no turning back. If you really want to do the things that you talk about, you can do them. But in the process of that, you also give up lots of rights that citizens have. You no longer have "Miranda Rights" if arrested. You no longer have the right to use public items such as public transportation, the public library, etc, etc....Removing yourself from the laws and rules of this society comes with a hefty price, but many people are willing to do it to free themselves from the rules of our government. So if that is what you REALLY want (and it sure sounds like it to me), then go for it. Go through the process and get it done legally, and then you can stop your bitching and moaning and have everything your way. But my guess is you're just a coward, and you prefer getting the attention of people in the court system and in the police department by writing up ridiculous legal paperwork that only burdens an already over-worked justice system.
Teh Editor: I saw the insult you directed at me. I hope that the people reading this guestbook will now be able to see you for the vicious fraud and criminal that you are and think about how to get you prosecuted for your crimes. Incidentally, I now have written proof of libel from you against me. I am sure that it will be excellent legal evidence against you at some point in the future. I can well see why you fail to leave your email address. You obviously don't have the guts to account for anything that you do. However, don't worry. Eventually, you will be tripped up and found out and then, you will have to account for everything that you have done and you won't be able to! Please do keep putting your foot in your mouth, you hear, and give me more evidence against you!
Steve: someone turned on the blue font and forgot to turn it back off and it is affecting your entire guestbook from that point on. The error occurred in the Thursday, Sept 23 posting.
Citizen Target: thank you for recognizing what I had posted in this guestbook. My intent in posting here is to bring forth evidence so obvious and clear, that everyone reading this guestbook realizes that the police, and especially the courts, are the very criminals that they profess to protect us against. Then, once the people realize that, they can then legally do whatever it takes to get rid of these criminals. In other words, Citizen Target, we need not sit here and bellyache forever. Get enough people willing to do something about this problem and we can legally go out and physically arrest, etc. all of these so called cops, including R/I/R and Teh Editor, all of these so called court officials, and the power elite that they protect. The key is making people aware of the evidence against these criminals. In that light, have you yet visited my website? Have you, Steve? Citizen Target and Steve, please do visit my website and give me your comments on it. Ever wonder why trash like R/I/R and Teh Editor so viciously attack me for simply quoting facts? Is it perhaps that what I have to say is so obvious that it will strip them and the criminals they are protecting of their facade and allow the people to see them for just what they are, and they are attacking my character in the hopes that it will blind people to the truth of what I am posting here.
R/I/R (Retired/Injured/Retarded): I like your new name; it certainly does fit! One only has to read this guestbook and see your contradictory statements to realize that.
To everyone reading this: I have had access to Steve's guestbook during the entire time his web page was brought down and I noticed that R/I/R also had access that entire time as well. I also noticed that R/I/R also has to have the last word, no matter how stupid it might be. For example, how about his statement, in regards to Waco and Ruby Ridge, on August 5, 1999 to wit: "...Those people never should have died, and law enforcement was wrong. The cops following the orders weren't wrong---they were doing what they were told because they assume their command structure makes the proper decisions..." as a comeback to the last message I posted before Steve's site was brought down. Does Nuremburg and the fact that Hitler's goons were tried and many of them were executed for simply "doing their job" ring a bell here. Please read the very first message I posted to this guestbook on July 6, 1999 and see what I said about police in that message. Then, see just how well R/I/R falls into that "60% of police who will blindly obey whoever is paying them no matter how evil that person might be." Then, visit my website and see just what kind of money fraud we have in the United States today. In due course, I will rebut R/I/R's posting of August 5, 1999 so that everyone can see just how dangerous and deluded R/I/R really is. However, the rebuttal won't appear immediately. First, unlike R/I/R and cohorts, I think long and hard on what I write and what I post to this guestbook. Second, this topic, even though discussion on it is essential, does drain me and I can only take so much at any one time.
That's all for now. Until my next posting...
Except for minor motor violations, I've never broken a law; knowingly or unknowingly. However, I was convicted of stealing my own car, trespassing on my own property, and breaking into my own building.
Why, R/I/R, do you think the police are so much above the law?
Throughout my adult life, I have always been able to elude, outwit, or simply avoid the criminal element. I have not been able to do the same with corrupt police officers. I'm getting better at it, in later years, simply by not leaving the house, night or day.
Why do you think 'police officers' need not obey court orders ? In addition to the three court orders, one for ownership, one for usage, and one for storage, I have this fourth order stating, in summary, " ... judgement (conviction) set aside ... evidence and testimony reveals only a personal disagreement between the defendant and the officer ... judgement reduced to simple assault".
At the time, I would have liked to know what that 'personal disagreement' was. No evidence of any 'personal disagreement' was ever introduced at trial, by myself or the 'officer'.
But, thanks to you, R/I/R, I now know what that personal disagreement was:
The following, you can choose to believe or disbelieve: I certainly did not 'approach' the 'officer'. He 'approached' me; the way a New York mugger approaches his next meal ticket. At trial, and I realize I'm repeating:
A. ('officer') ... because he wouldn't leave.
Time and space prevents giving you all the details; I make no apology for that. I can add that I was the ONLY one on the property at the time. I can add that no one in the neighborhood was there to assist him or to assist me. There were no witnesses ... or, at least, no witnesses willing to testify, for him or for me. I can also add, no police officer ever came to that property in the 5 years before that incident and no police officer ever came to that property in at least 5 years after that incident. In short, I had no reason whatsoever to even suspect the 'officer' might be a policeman. Is that clear to you ? I never returned to the property either. That was the desired 'law enforcement' requirement and result. But, the 'officers' couldn't stop there, could they ? The 'officers' went to every single employer I had, for the next 15 years to tell them a story ... to 'educate them'.
And, they couldn't stop there, either. They solicited another 'public servant' and another 'law enforcement' jurisdiction to remove me from my long time personal residence. It took them three years, but they succeeded.
And you think I'm sick ? Wonderful.
It's nice to know you think I'm a whacko because I'm law abiding, obey court orders, and expect others to do the same. It's nice to know you think I'm nuts because I didn't stand still and let some idiot bash my brains out.
In that fourth court order, there is a reference to " ... obscenities made to the officer by the defendant". No such obscenities were ever discussed or raised at trial. No such obscenities were made during the incident by either party (myself and/or the alleged 'officer'). No reference to any obscenity of any kind exists in the official court record.
However, now, 18 years later, I have fulfilled the court order by making obscene remarks to an 'alleged police officer', you, R/I/R. I have made obscene remarks to you. How'd you like it ?
I figure, hey, I've already been convicted of being obscene by one of your brother 'officers', I might as well be obscene. Thank your brother 'officers' for the 'Law Enforcement Circle Jerk'. I picked you to spring it on. It was invented by Officer John Volpe, NYPD, who butt-fucked Abner Louima with a broom. How'd you like it ?
How did you like being verbally fucked over for no apparent reason whatsoever ? Was it fun ?
Once again, you have me saying "huh?". Maybe things truly are different in the area that you live in. If they really are as you say, then I'm just speechless. I'm out here in California (the Bay Area), and people approach the police EVERY SINGLE DAY. When I was working, people would approach me and my co-workers every day---that's why we're out there. Do you mean to tell me that you don't see people approach the police to ask them a question? Such as directions, or 'what time is it', or any one of a multitude of questions? You say that this will always be my story, and I honestly and truly have absolutely no idea not only what you're talking about, but what you're even trying to infer. You have totally lost me. I'm sure you're trying to make a point somewhere in here, but I am not able to follow what it is. It's just not making sense to me at all.
Citizen also writes: "If you read the transcripts from Steve's list of 36+ kills, you'll find that stock 'police answer' over and over
and over."
It's really hard to carry on an intelligent conversation with somebody that just jumps around so much and makes so many leaps of conclusions of things that have nothing to do with each other. I think you are, unfortunately, a very prejudiced man and that's a shame. There are too many people like you in this world, making it a much worse place to live in. I was making a comment to somebody else about something they wrote (Alec), and you jump into the middle of that conversation and translate it into a comparison of something that happened to you in court, and my answers having something to do with police officers involved in the use of deadly force. Your comparisons just don't hold water. If you would stop being so prejudiced for just a second, it might be possible to actually have a real conversation. All I can do as far as learning who you are and what your problems with the police has been over the years, is to read what you have posted here in this Guestbook. There is nothing else for me to go on except what you have written. So, based strictly upon that and nothing else, it's my opinion that you have a VERY closed mind. Because no matter what I say, you always come back with the same sort of "tone" in your responses---that all police are the same, all police are corrupt, all police are "out to get you", and many other similar thoughts and feelings. Just on the surface using that and nothing else, this seems to be a sort of mental illness that you have. Now I'm sure you'll take this comment and twist it into whatever your mind THINKS it is the I just said. But you might not be mentally ill at all---maybe this is the way you "vent" your frustations, by writing things that don't make sense and making incredibly prejudicial statements in here. The only thing in common between me and the officers that have had contact with you is that we are in the same occupation. I am a PERSON, a HUMAN BEING. I am NOT a robot that falls under your own personal prejudicial category of whatever it is that your mind thinks it is. I live a few thousand miles away from you, and I can guarantee to you that law enforcement on the west coast is entirely different than on the east coast. That is why we use the TV show "COPS" as a training video. Many of the west coast police departments do---because whenever the crew of that television show does a ride-along with an east coast police department, it is shocking to us not only the way they treat people, but their incredibly poor tactics and lack of officer safety issues. Why am I pointing this out? To try to get you to stop being so prejudiced in your comments about lumping everybody into the same pile of generalities. Imagine if I started to say that all black people like fried chicken, or all asians were bad drivers, or any number of stereotypes involving a certain group of people. That is HIGHLY prejudicial, yet that is exactly what you are doing with the police----including me. It doesn't bother me---if it did, then I would be in the wrong profession. But since I'm retired now because of a serious injury that I received on duty by a suspect, and I now have metal rods, screws, and cages in my spine for the rest of my life, and now have the time to do things like this that I never had time for in the past.
In all honesty, people like you make me sick. Not because of your comments about the police, but because your view of society in general. Why do you think you're so much above the law? And why do you think so many people (specifically the police) are out to get you? Is there ANYBODY on this list that has ANY idea what you have been talking about the last few days? I'm not talking about people that have known you and your past because or previous conversations---I'm talking strictly about what you have written in the last few days. It makes absolutely no sense at all. I still have no clue what it is you're talking about with your experiences. And I have no idea what you mean by the last statement you made that I quoted at the beginning of this paragraph.
Citizen also writes: "More stock 'police testimony'. Care to guess how many times in Steve's list of 36+ kills the officers testified "
... the actor went nuts" or "the actor was a whacko" ?"
Sure, I'd be happy to take a guess. I would say that at least half of them---but it's probably even more than that. It's unfortunate, but EDP's (Emotionally Disturbed Persons) are a huge threat to police officers. We never know what they are going to do, or how they are going to react. They are irrational thinkers, and can become very violent very quickly. I'm not talking about rocket science here---this is basic, common sense information. And since you are referring specifically to the list of those 36 people that were killed by the use of police deadly force, I honestly don't know the specifics of every single one of those cases. However, I have read through several of them and I do agree that there are some in there that make me question what happened. But it is impossible for me or you to make a judgement about what happened at the scene of an incident when you and me were not in that officer's shoes making the split-second decision that was made. An officer goes through a TREMENDOUS amount of "shoot/don't shoot" training, and has so much knowledge in his head that the ordinary citizen does not have. His or her training and experience all come together in literally a split second. Whatever decision that officer makes will be scrutinized and reviewed by the news media, the court system, other cops, family members, and people like this group on the Internet. And that is perfectly okay, as long as people keep the right perspective on things. If you are one of those people that believes a police officer should "shoot the knife out of a suspect's hand" when he is charging at an officer with knife shouting "I'm going to kill you pig"----then there is SO MUCH that needs to be explained to you, and I'm not the person to do that. There are many, many people who believe just that. I'll read those comments in the morning paper or see it on a TV news interview after the police used deadly force on a suspect attacking a police officer with a knife---"Why can't the police just shoot the knife out his hand? Why did they have to kill him"?. Those kinds of comments just make me shake my head, and make me wonder about the society that we live in. Or a similar comment in a similar situation is "Why didn't the police shoot him in the arm or the leg? Why did they have to shoot him in the chest?". There are very scientific, medical, and physiological reasons for this. Like I said, I'm not the guy to explain this to you. I had to learn all of these things by the experts during all of my training. But there really are reasons why we do things.
I have mentioned this once before, but in my personal opinion, part of the reason that there is friction between the police and the citizens that they serve, is simply because a lack of understanding of the job. This is also, again in my opinion, the exact same reason why there is friction in EVERY police department between the police and the dispatchers. Each person does not understand the other person's job, and there is ALWAYS friction and rude comments going on back and forth between the cops and the dispatchers. It's not because either person is incompetent or is doing their job improperly---it's simply because of a simple lack of understanding of the other person's job and why they do certain things a certain way. The same thing with the public watching the police---complete misunderstandings are a HUGE part of it. And maybe that's something where the police departments across the country should begin some sort of education program to the public, so that they understand why the police do things a certain way. I know that in my own department, we put on a "Citizen's Police Academy". Anybody who is over 18 years old can go through this academy, and they meet in the evenings over a 6 month period. We have had people from ALL walks of life go through this program, and there have been nothing but extremely positive comments out of it. In addition to them learning the policies and procedures that we MUST follow every day, they also learn laws, they go to the range and shoot pistols and shotguns, and we actually let them drive our own fully marked police cars and make vehicle stops. Not on real people of course, because that would be illegal. But they go out to the mall parking lot and they drive the police car, and pull over one of the other academy participants. They do this at night, with the lights flashing, using the spotlights and the whole 9 yards. They are required to do a "high risk" car stop by pointing a gun at the suspect, shouting commands, handcuffing them, and everything else. I LOVE this program! It shows the citizens what is going through our minds when we do these things. It's one thing to sit back and criticize what the cops are doing. But it a TOTALLY different thing to get out there and try it yourself. The comments at the end of the academy from every single person that has gone through (and it is several hundred people now) is that they had no idea our jobs were so hard. They had no idea how difficult it is to make a split-second decision, and then have it critiqued by the entire world for the next several years. Even if you made a bad decision, you have to live with that because you did what you thought was right at that very instant moment in time.
I wish there was a program like that in which you, Citizen Target, could go through. I wish you could see what the job is like, and what we have to go through to get the job done. I've written enough for one posting, so I'll stop here for now.
If you read the transcripts from Steve's list of 36+ kills, you'll find that stock 'police answer' over and over and over.
Innocent lives will be lost in law enforcement and war during the just prosecution thereof. The loss of innocent lives under the guise of war IS NOT TOLERATED. The loss of innocent lives under the guise of law enforcement WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.
That is where we differ. That is where we part company.
Um, whatever.....
He also writes: " I invite you to get together with Officer Tim, Officer Dan"
Who??? Am I supposed to know who you're referring to?
And he writes this too: "You know damn well I'm required to obey those 'old laws' ... thousands and thousands of them. You're telling
me YOU are NOT REQUIRED to obey any of those 'old laws'. You're telling me no Law Enforcement Officer is
required to obey any of those 'old laws'."
Where DO you come up with this stuff??
And this: "Be my guest: Tell the Director of the Securities and Exchange Commission he's a whacko."
No thanks.
And: "Tell Janet Reno she's
a whacko."
Ahhhh, you FINALLY say something that makes some sense! I would be happy to tell Janet "Waco" Reno that she is a whacko, and a lot of other not-so-nice things.She is the most corrupt attorney general that this nation has ever seen.
And finally: "I had a court order on my person proving I owned the real estate I was on. I had a court order on my person
proving I had a right to use the real estate I was on. I had a court order on my person proving I had a right to
store items ON the real estate I was on."
I really have no idea what you're talking about. Where is all of this coming from? Many weeks ago, I addressed my comments to "Alec". And now, out of the blue, you go off on some tangent that makes no sense to me at all? How I am supposed to know what you're talking about? Unless you and Alec are the same person, none of this is making ANY sense whatsoever. And why would anybody have a court order proving that they owned real estate? A court order? I have purchased all sorts of real estate in my life, and not once has it required a court order. It sounds to me like you have a mission in life to make things difficult for yourself. As far as I remember, we were having some rather respectful conversations on this board. Of course, we disagreed with each other, but that's okay. But out of nowhere, you're suddenly going nuts. I don't know what all of this is about, and I certainly have no clue what you're rambling on about, but I do wish you well in the future.
Huh? I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I've written things more recently in here than you have, so I honestly don't get where you're coming from. Where do you get the notion that I thought I had "shut down" this site? I have never expressed any desire to do any such thing. Your statement leaves me rather confused.
I had a feeling you guys were still playing here.
There goes another cop ragging on people again.
Steve, no offense to this website, but I think it's nice to be able to express your opinions here but it's a big waste of time. All I've noticed is the cops that sign in are narrow minded and will take shots at anyone (in more ways than one) if the opportunity presents itself - and of course "they" are in the right. "They" will never fully understand the life on the other side of the badge.
On the other hand, citizens like Citizen Target and myself have been screwed over by law enforcement (what IS law anymore?) agents, one too many times. Yeah, "go through the channels to make a wrong right". If you were citizens (I don't consider cops citizens), you should try to "go through the channels" and see how far you get. Like I said, you'll never fully understand where we're coming from. Like my description a few months back, "we" are the sheep, and "you" are the herders. You can get away with a lot of things that we would be locked up for.
I think that someone who wrote to you not long ago and eluded [sic] to the
fact that you and your dorky mates are just plain jealous was right on the
money. Sure express your views but dont express your life, which I might
add is pretty fucked up if all you do is write trash such as the shit I
just looked at.
I hope your dad rots in jail! [He probably
will. It's his own fault. Did you expect me to be upset at your
attempted insult? --steve]
Alec, you are 2000 miles away and the 'procedure' there is exactly the same as the 'procedure' here. When the 'power elite' decide to take something away from you, they 'simply do it' ... and ... if you take them to court in a lawful attempt to stop them ... they use the police to stop you.
Thanks for sharing, Alec.
I had a court order on my person proving I owned the real estate I was on. I had a court order on my person proving I had a right to use the real estate I was on. I had a court order on my person proving I had a right to store items ON the real estate I was on.
Q.(attorney to 'officer')... after you identified the suspect as (Citizen_Target) and after you realized no crime had occurred or was in progress and after you realized (Citizen_Target) had a right to be there; why didn't you just leave ?
A. ('officer') ... because he wouldn't leave.
Retired, in 1981, I sat in court and listened to this so called officer accuse me of stealing my own car, trespassing on my own property, and breaking into my own building.
Every one of his officer buddies heard his bullshit story, clearly. To a man, they all protected him. Every one of the State Patrolmen at the local barracks heard his bullshit story. To a man, they all protected him. A State Patrolman, under oath, in a court of law, in proceedings specific to this matter, stated " ... we aren't going to obey any court order without a court order".
The State Patrolmen, to this day, refuse to admit that the car belonged to me. The State Patrolmen, to this day, refuse to admit I did not break into my own building. The State Patrolmen, to this day, refuse to obey, enforce, or in any manner comply with the three court orders mentioned above.
The door I allegedly 'broke thru' to enter the building was made of steel. It was secured by a 5 pound Master Lock that I'd be surprised wouldn't survive a hand grenade explosion. In fact, I purchased the lock through special order. Todays' price for that lock would be around 200 bucks. To this day, I retain the only key to that lock. To this day, both the steel security door and the lock are intact.
To this day, I have not returned to the property except to make emergency repairs.
This has happened with 5 properties: first in 1975 and last, my life long residence, in 1996.
Fuck you, Retired, ... just Fuck You.
You know damn well I'm required to obey those 'old laws' ... thousands and thousands of them. You're telling me YOU are NOT REQUIRED to obey any of those 'old laws'. You're telling me no Law Enforcement Officer is required to obey any of those 'old laws'.
So, fuck you, Retired, ... , just Fuck You. I invite you to get together with Officer Tim, Officer Dan (and as many more as you can assemble) and have a Law Enforcement Circle Jerk. You know how to do the Law Enforcement Circle Jerk, don't you ? Here's how: 1) gather in a circle, 2) load your service revolvers, 3) stuff the barrel up the nearest officers ass, 4) try to jerk all the triggers in unison, 5) report the results back to this guestbook.
It's unfortunate that you have been brainwashed by the news media into believing this. Nobody thinks for themselves any more, and it's a shame. I will explain what I mean by this if you would like me to, but it will take me a while to write it all out. I didn't want to do it if you weren't interested. Just let me know. I respect your opinion and would like to hear why you disagree with me, if you do disagree with me after I explain myself. But every time the news media comes along with a politically hot topic that has anything to do with "race", the people follow like sheep and just go along with whatever they're told. Black people and other minorities better wake up and stop letting the media feed your minds with garbage---think for yourselves and break free from that cycle of depending on them and the government to tell you what you are thinking! You're better than that, but they obviously don't think so.
You make me sick. Why are you posting that crap here anyway? A little off topic, don't you think? How does a person end up like you, so full of hate and disrespect for human life? What a rough life you must have had to get like this. I wish you a better life for the future........
First of all, don't go correcting a spelling error that I make. If you want to be taken seriously, stop acting like a nut and present your case with some maturity.
Secondly, you continue to refer to your "evidence". Well, I have yet to see one bit of the evidence that you refer to. I checked out your web page, and it was more legal-ese than I care to read. But I did notice you were quoting law decisions from the 1920's and the 1930's. Surely that's not your "evidence" that you go to court with is it? If so, my God, no wonder you get kicked out of court. Think about it.
If you want to be taken seriously, then sit down and put your facts together in a clear, concise manner that people will pay attention to and understand. I tried to be subtle with you before in my description of what I, or other police officers would do, if approached by a person carrying on about "case law", the Constitution, court decisions, blah blah blah. Here it is, plain and simple: You are looked at as a whacko. I am not saying you are, because I have never met you. But simply based upon what you are saying here, you sure are giving plenty of signs that you may be. Try to picture that for a moment if you will--a street cop, getting paid by the hour, gets approached by some guy spurting off case law, Constitutional references, etc.....That cop won't give you the time of the day (unless he's taking you on a 72 hour hold). Cops are just that---cops. They are not a court of law, or an attorney. Why would they want to listen to your craziness? If you have something specific and rational to discuss with them, then I'm sure you will be able to do that.
I can't believe you can actually write, with a straight face, that you went to, let's see if I get this right now, the FBI, Superior Court, and other courts with citizen's arrest paperwork for the elected District Attorney of one of the largest counties in the country---Los Angeles?? Again, if you can't see the irrational behavior in that, then no matter what I say it will fall on deaf ears.
Believe it or not, I continue to say that, surprisingly, you have hit on some very interesting and true points. I am specifically referring to Janet Reno and the entire Department Of Justice. Anybody that has been watching the Fox News Channel (because they're the only ones covering it) or keeping up with Larry Klayman and "Judicial Watch" knows how corrupt and crooked Ms. Reno and her department is. Waco and Ruby Ridge were terrible tragedies, and the people at the top of those departments made those raids for highly political decisions. Those people never should have died, and law enforcement was wrong. The cops following the orders weren't wrong---they were doing what they were told because they assume their command structure makes the proper decisions. But Waco and Ruby Ridge require MUCH more time and explanation than I care to get into here. My point is simply that, you do have some valid points about the direction that the USA is taking. But for some reason, you have taken that topic and twisted it around in your own mind so that you now believe there is some big coverup going on in police departments. Evidence of your paranoia is clearly presented in your recent post, describing some sort of relationship between "Teh Editor" and myself. Other than the very short comments that you saw posted on this web site, that is my extent of contact with that person. Your mind takes off on a path that is crazy. You read WAY too much into things, and get WAY too carried away with your beliefs. Paranoid behavior like that is dangerous, and I have seen what people like you eventually do. That is why I hope you get counseling or some kind of help---to get those paranoid and delusional feelings out of your mind, and to come back to reality.
You can continue to spread the word and fight your fight, but leave out the ridiculous stuff. That way, you might be taken seriously. By your OWN WORDS you have demonstrated to me just how un-serious you have been taken. Judges threaten you with contempt of court and arrest, you try to go to court for a citizen's arrest against the DA of LA County. I will say this again---if you don't see the absolute craziness in what you are doing, then I give up. Your mind is too far gone. But if you DO understand what I am saying, then you will be able to go very far and get lots of people to listen to you. Most people that read your web page, and read your comments, will leave with a similar conclusion as me. It's almost as if you start out okay with your points about the USA heading in the wrong direction, but then from there you just go off the deep end with paranoia and non-existent evidence. I wish you luck sir.
Pure and simple, I'm doing nothing other than stating facts, as horrible as they might be, and backing those facts up with evidence. However, Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com is addressing none of those facts nor any of the evidence I bring forth to back them up. Instead, he viciously attacks my character with trash like: "counseling"
and "dilusional," which is incorrectly spelled I might add, the correct spelling is delusional. Then he attempts to blind everyone reading this guestbook as to what he is really trying to do, with adhoc, unsupported and ambiguous statements like: "I think those are enough
quotes for all to understand where Alec is coming from."
"Do you not wonder why? Just what is it he is trying so desperately to hide anyways? And, why is he attacking me so viciously? Is it perhaps that he wants to blind everyone reading this guestbook into believing that
I am some sort of wacko, in the hopes that they will not read what I have posted here and be able to see for themselves how damning the evidence, that I have brought forth, is against the police and the courts?
Be that as it may, given that the facts that I stated, and that he later quoted, are actually crimes being committed by public officials, in particular, judges and attorneys, he is, at this point, attempting to cover up criminal acts and protect criminals, as for example, Mr. Ira Reiner, an obvious criminal! Just, who is hurting who
here, anyways?
"the entire court system in the United States is a
fraudulent court system of attornment and is a communist aristocracy owned and controlled by foreign nationals! "
"The attempt was made by 2 people who were robbed of a $5,000,000.00 estate by the Southern
California Conference of 7th Day Adventists Church."
"Just as soon as Mr. Molano became
aware of the presence of the 8 individuals, he immediately stood up, ran out of the courtroom,
ripped off his robes, hid in his chambers and called a Los Angeles County deputy sheriff (whose
mentality Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com no doubt shares) to arrest all 8 individuals"
"....... whereupon 1 of the 2 people making the felony
complaint stood up and stated: "Yes, I have a felony complaint against Mr. Ira Reiner". (note by Retired/Injured here: For those who don't know, Ira Reiner at the time was the district attorney for Los Angeles County).
"Mr. Mills stopped that individual and said: "get out of my court or I will have
you arrested for contempt.."
I think those are enough quotes for all to understand where Alec is coming from. Alec--please get counseling before you hurt someone. The longer you let this go, the more dilusional you will get. Life's too short.
Let me begin with a not so nice rebuttal to Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com and his cohort, 'Teh Editor'. It is unfortunate that it has to be this way. After all, Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com and 'Teh Editor' could be sincere, decent, but completely misguided,
individuals, although, based on their comments and, especially, their responses to my previous postings, I completely doubt it. However, regardless of what their character is and regardless of whether they intend to or not, they are conducting a charade here to cover up,
and lead the people reading this website away from, ongoing fraud, treason and war crimes of unimaginable proportions being perpetuated against the American people. That charade of theirs needs to be exposed and discredited completely, and for all time.
Then, the people reading this posting need to compare the charade being conducted here by Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com and 'Teh Editor' to the behavior of the police they are familiar with and then search out those police officers who do NOT fit into this charade so that they can get those officers to arrest the individuals responsible for the ongoing fraud, treason and war crimes being perpetuated against the American people. It is critical to understand that there might well be too few or NO police officers that do not fit into Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com and 'Teh Editor''s charade. In that case, the only recourse would be for the American people as a whole to first approach the military and have it make the necessary arrests, and, if that doesn't work, come together themselves and arrest the individuals, and all of their agents, including police, that are causing the ongoing fraud, treason and war crimes. Such action by the American people is completely legal and is clearly stated in the Declaration of Independence which at least one judge, as much as he didn't want to, on 16 May 1994, quoted as law.
Be that as it may, onto exposing and discrediting Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com and 'Teh Editor''s charade.
If you read all of the postings in this Guestbook since, and including the day of, July 5, 1999, then you should be able to observe that Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com obeys the following pattern:
"cops are not hired from the 'Planet Perfect'---they are hired from the same society that we all live in."
"...Or, maybe it would have confirmed your initial suspicions and then that officer would have received counseling or a written reprimand by his superiors..."
"And when that happens, the cynical citizens will usually make an ignorant comment like 'lazy cops---stuffing their faces instead of out there catching the bad guys'. Well, in my opinion, that's a little ridiculous. They are entitled to eat just like everybody else."
"The best thing you could possibly do is again, go to the police station or call on the phone and speak to the watch commander. Tell the boss what happened, and what the officers said to you. These kinds of things the boss MUST know about his people. If citizens don't tell the boss what his employees are doing, how are they supposed to know??"
Secondly, when anyone, such as myself, presents evidence to refute his assertions that police are decent and unjustly maligned people, depending on how severe the rebuttals against his assertions are, his response, in turn, may range from, simply pooh-poohing or ignoring the evidence presented and continuing with his little charade, to direct and vicious attacks upon the character of the person who rebutted him, with intent to discredit that person in the eyes of everyone else, followed, once again, by ignorance of the evidence presented and a return to his little charade. Here is a sampling of the more juicy statements (again there are many more besides these) upon which I base this conclusion:
"I find it hard to believe that you went to the watch commander and he was not helpful to you. If this is in fact true, then I question the significance of the topic of conversation you brought up to him. I can tell you from personal experience that is somebody comes to me (as a police officer) ranting and raving like a lunatic, throwing things out like 'Constitution' and court cases and other things that you mentioned in your post, I will not really listen to what you are saying. I will basically just hear 'blah blah blah blah'. I'm not saying that to be dis-respectful, but I am saying this so that you know about human nature and more specifically, the police." (Italics added for emphasis).
"I know how it must appear to somebody on 'the outside' of a police department, and I know that your mind is made up and no matter what I say will not change your mind. But all I can say is, I WAS on the inside for 13 years and I can guarantee you that, at least at the local city police
level, there is NO conspiracy or cover-up or anything else going on."
"So maybe if the Webmaster comes in and tells you to take your topic to a different forum, maybe HE is part of the mass government conspiracy also."
"TO: 'Teh Editor' Can I buy you a beer? I think we'd have a lot in common to discuss. While I pride myself on always trying to remain as open-minded as possible and to always listen to the other side of an issue in case I am missing something, it really is getting more difficult to do here. My only guess is, since the kids are out of school for the summer, that accounts for a lot of these postings..." I am almost 40 years old and certainly not a kid.
"Retired/Injured Cop---Have you figured out just what the hell Alec is trying to say. He just rambles on and on. I was looking to see whether or not he was going to talk about how he places aluminum foil on his ceiling to keep out the nasty gamma rays which are being transmitted by the
U.S. Government. I guess that will be contained in his next volume. Must be from the left coast.
"Try thinking of others for once instead of yourself. By the way, I'll even let you borrow some aluminum foil from me, as 'Teh Editor' suggested. Take care......."
Thirdly, usually with a partner such as 'Teh Editor', Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com will even arrogantly challenge the person who rebutted him and his little charade as if he were the master of the person who rebutted
him, forgetting, of course, that he is the public servant who is supposed to serve the person who rebutted him. In fact, his manner very much brings to mind the picture, from George Orwell's Novel, "1984," of a booted
foot (his, of course) on a human face (the American people) forever. Once again, here is a sampling of the more juicy statements (again there are many more besides these) upon which I base this conclusion:
"As far as me serving my community, I certainly don't have to answer to you--especially with the kind of response you came back with. I have enough awards, commendable notices, citizen compliment letters, and 'thank
you's' from both suspects and victims and that's all I need to convince myself and others of my service." (Italics added for emphasis).
"TO: 'Teh Editor' Can I buy you a beer? I think we'd have a lot in common to discuss."
"The cops ARE well respected by the majority of people, but sometimes it's easy to forget that. This serves as a reminder that the cops who are working the streets today are appreciated and we are thankful for them."
Compare that with: "I think you might be surprised to find that I agree with most of what you said. I am well aware of the lies and frauds going on in our 'government', and the majority of the people in this country are asleep at the wheel..."
Combining these two statements of his, doesn't it stand to reason that he is saying, although he will never admit so, that, in essence, the police are putting on a charade of serving the people and the majority of the people are fooled by that charade?
"get into a fight with some REALLY big guys covered with tattoos, have a drunk throw up on your boots that you spent half of your Saturday shining up, and the list goes on and on and on.....These whiners and complainers wouldn't make it past the first 5 hours."
"If you don't like this country, you are certainly free to leave. Both Canada and Mexico are within driving distance of just about everywhere in the U.S. Perhaps the 'less slum-like' countries of Kosovo, Russia or Sierre Leon would be better for you." [This comment
was posted by 'Teh Editor']. This is my home, and it has been invaded by foreign agents like 'Teh' Editor. What really needs to happen instead is that either those foreign agents need to be kicked out or those foreign agents need to discard their foreign agent mentality, and begin serving the American people.
"And to discuss 'decent, forgiving' police officers shows a lack of knowledge on your part. When you talk about forgiveness by a police officer, you aren't really discussing forgiveness. You simply want the cop to give you a break for the acts committed. It's not because of remorse, it's because you got caught and it's inconvenient' for you to deal with it." [Once again, this comment was posted by 'Teh Editor'] I never cried for mercy or forgiveness. My assertions have always been, and are, that these people are the very
criminals they profess to protect us against.
"Police officers need to know exactly how certain segments of the community feel about them. These sites assist the officer in sharpening his awareness skills so that he knows how to better deal with deviant behavior on the street. And yes, I said 'deviant' behavior. This is behavior which does not conform with the norm of society." [And again, this comment was posted by 'Teh Editor']. (Italics added for emphasis). Of course, 'Teh' Editor considers as "deviant" anything that does not
conform to the little charade that he and Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com are putting on. Once again, their foreign agent mentality is showing through, this time as their arrogance in labeling as "deviant" someone who doesn't please their whims by playing along with their charade.
But, at no time, does Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com or 'Teh Editor' ever address the evidence presented and, point by point, make a case for how the person presenting the evidence could be mistaken. Is it perhaps because he can't refute the evidence? Doesn't his behavior strike you as being that of a criminal who is attempting to masquerade as an honest, hardworking and legitimate person, who, when exposed for what he is, will attempt to blind everyone around him to the truth of what he really is by whatever means he can?
But, just in case you feel that the evidence that I have already posted here is insufficient to prove the assertions that I have made about the police and about the state of the United States in general, or to justify the scathing observations I have made about Retired/Injured
Cop, User3665@aol.com and 'Teh' Editor, let me add two more things.
First, visit my website where you can find in-depth evidence proving all of the assertions I have made to date, including those statements Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com is so fond of calling "blanket and generalized." In particular, do understand that I can prove that the entire court system in the United States is a fraudulent court system of attornment and is a communist aristocracy owned and controlled by foreign nationals!
Second, an attempt was made in July 1987 to do exactly what Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com so arrogantly suggested I do (citizen's arrest) when he said: "...you don't need me to make the arrest---do it yourself." The attempt was made by 2 people who were robbed of a $5,000,000.00 estate by the Southern California Conference of 7th Day Adventists Church. This further proves Citizen Target's statements: "It's clearly beyond a few bad cops. This has been going on 25 years for me and
probably beyond for many, many others. To endure that long requires assistance from higher levels, at least approval from the DAs' office and help from one or more judges. For years, I've corresponded with the State Attorney Generals' Office, and, gee, they'd really like to help, but they're
so darn busy with other cases ..." that he posted on Sunday, August 01, 1999 at 04:30:01 (MDT).
When put together with the evidence I have on my website, it conclusively proves what I stated at the beginning of this posting, namely ongoing fraud, treason and war crimes of unimaginable proportions being perpetuated against the American people.
What follows is an almost verbatim dictation to me by one of the witnesses (uninvolved parties) present when the 2 complainants attempted to make their citizen's arrest:
An attempt was then made by all 8 individuals to go to the supervising calendar court judge of the entire Superior Court of Torrance. That person was, and still is, Mr. Robert Molano. All 8 individuals moved to the first
row of seats in that courtroom. Just as soon as Mr. Molano became aware of the presence of the 8 individuals, he immediately stood up, ran out of the courtroom, ripped off his robes, hid in his chambers and called a Los Angeles County deputy sheriff (whose mentality
Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com no doubt shares) to arrest all 8 individuals on any excuse whatsoever. Mr. Molano continued to hear his cases with the prosecuting attorneys, defense attorneys and court
reporter, but no one else (such as the defendants), moving themselves into his chambers. The deputy sheriff threatened all 8 individuals that they would all be arrested when Mr. Molano returned to the bench to recess
the court for lunch. This could have been the opportunity for those 8 individuals to hand the felony complaint to Mr. Molano, through the bailiff, except that Mr. Molano did everything in his power to deny that opportunity
to those 8 individuals.
An attempt was then made to go to a criminal superior court judge, Mr. Cecil J. Mills. The witness that dictated this account to me observed a young Mexican man be totally and completely stripped of his Constitutional rights on the advice of his defense attorney, whereupon Mr. Mills sentenced that man to 2 years in jail without a trial. Mr. Mills, after this ordeal, then stated: "is there any further business before this court?," whereupon 1 of the 2 people making the felony complaint stood up and
stated: "Yes, I have a felony complaint against Mr. Ira Reiner," whereupon that individual then crossed the bar and stood before Mr. Mills. Mr. Mills became immediately evasive by stating: "take it to the Governor," whereupon
the individual stated: "I did that," whereupon Mr. Mills stated: "take it to the Attorney General." The individual then stated: "I did that also." Mr. Mills then said: "take it to the Los Angeles County Grand Jury." The individual then replied: "I did that also." Then Mr. Mills said: "what was the outcome?" The individual then replied: "Mr. Ira Reiner tampered with both Grand Juries" (1986 and 1987). The individual then attempted to hand the felony complaint through the bailiff to Mr. Mills, whereupon Mr. Mills stopped that individual and said: "get out of my court or I will have you arrested for contempt," whereupon a witness, very politely, stood up and attempted to ask a question of Mr. Mills. Mr. Mills instantly threatened
that witness with jail. Another one of the witnesses stated to Mr. Mills: "your honor, he is just a high school student," to which Mr. Mills responded: "then, he will go to juvenile hall." After this ordeal, all 6 witnesses, and the complaining individual who had not crossed the bar,
stood up in unison. Mr. Mills saw all of them, whereupon the flesh color of his face went totally ash white. Then, everyone left.
All of this evidence, including affidavits, was sent registered mail to Mr. William Sessions, the then director of the FBI. No action was taken by the FBI; they instead stated, amongst other excuses, to the person who wrote to them: "As Mr. Reynolds telephonically advised you, the FBI's jurisdiction in civil rights matters is limited." This is the same organization who, within its limited powers, was somehow able to kick out 140 ATF agents, obtain 3 helicopters and 2 military battle tanks, and slaughter some 89 people at Waco, TX, who were bothering no one. Be advised that all so-called evidence against Mr. David Koresh and his followers was ultimately proven to be complete lies in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee by Ms. Janet Reno. The same can be
said about Mr. Randy Weaver and Ruby Ridge.
The witness, who dictated this almost verbatim account to me, also attempted to obtain a seat on the Los Angeles County Grand Jury (as did I, several years later, and was also unsuccessful) in an
attempt to bring this matter before the Los Angeles County Grand Jury pursuant to the California Penal Code. This witness was interviewed by a judge Schmidt. As soon as that judge realized that that witness knew something of the law and the California Penal Code, he instantly stood
and stated: "we'll get back to you." Absolutely no further replies were forthcoming.
I am certain that Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com and 'Teh' Editor will attempt to dismiss the almost verbatim account that I just finished giving with some comeback similar, if not identical, to the following: "I find it hard to believe that your witness went to a Superior Court
and it was not helpful to that person. If this is in fact true, then I question the significance and truth of the complaint or whatever your witness brought before it." Talk about having a closed mind! No matter how strong the evidence brought to his attention, Retired/Injured Cop,
User3665@aol.com will simply fluff it off with some cheap excuse or rhetoric in an attempt to support the existing fraud and treason that purports to be our government. And then, he will accuse the person bringing forth the evidence of having a closed mind!
In all honesty, I can only conclude that Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com, 'Teh' Editor, and all their fellow conspiring police officers of whatever nature, who are attempting to maintain this criminal and treasonous fraud, have chosen to enter into an alliance with, and perhaps become part of, the worst filth created by Satan because
they and their fellow conspirators are systematically destroying the integrity, morality and sovereignty of the American people and their country in the name of law enforcement.
The witness, who dictated the almost verbatim account that I included in this posting, is writing a book which will be titled: "The Free World Myth." All of the evidence stated in the almost verbatim account above will be included. To everyone who visits this website who still cares about the
United States and where it is headed, look for that book. You will all need to read it. However, I'm afraid that Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com and 'Teh' Editor are beyond hope.
Three final points:
Here is a news article that talks about the FBI forcing phone service providers to provide it with the means to listen in on anyone's phone conversations. So much for its limited civil rights powers!
TO:
All of you, based on your postings, are police officers. Some of you even say how you are alarmed at the actions of police as described here. All of you say, implicitly or otherwise, that you serve your community, the people,
the country and the Constitution. NOW PROVE IT! You all have my email address so you can easily contact me; I have legal evidence proving ongoing fraud, theft, extortion, TREASON, etc.
(i.e. PROSECUTABLE CRIMES) on the part of those who profess to be our public servants; You accept this evidence from me and begin, or get someone else to begin, prosecuting these so called public servants RIGHT NOW; I can begin by emailing you some of it and follow up by sending the rest of it to you by mail or by otherwise delivering it to you; just tell me where to send it to, and when to show up to the inevitable Grand Jury hearings. Failure to at least get my evidence and to make an attempt to empanel a Grand Jury of whatever nature to follow up on that evidence can only mean that, no matter what you say, you are so interested in maintaining your cushy existences that you are willing to let the country and the American people
go to hell! If that is the case, I can only conclude that all of you have chosen to enter into an alliance with, and perhaps become part of, the worst filth created by Satan, and may God have mercy on you!
Those kinds of stories make me sick! The police are the good guys! They're not supposed to be the ones getting arrested. They're supposed to set the good examples to society, serve the public, etc. I don't know how they could look themselves in the mirror every day and still put on that badge. Incredible.
Mea culpa. That one's already been written. Yep, it was the
famous 'Good Cop, Bad Cop' book about Officer Ken Eurell. The
guy that nailed him was Joe Trimboli. Michael Dowd was
Eurells' partner.
Sorry about that.
Want a better activity ? Write the new Frank Serpico Story. All
you'd have to do is interview the guy that nailed NYPDs'
Michael Dowd. I still have his name written down somewhere.
Michael Dowd was untouchable. He didn't get 'caught' until
he sold drugs, from his police cruiser, in another precinct.
Quite a story. I'd buy the book if you write it.
Some of the 'proceedings' were telecast locally. One of the
panel asked him point blank 'weren't you afraid of getting caught?'.
He answered, '... no, what were people gonna do, call the
police ? We are the police.'
It's clearly beyond a few bad cops. This has
been going on 25 years for me and probably beyond for many,
many others. To endure that long requires assistance from
higher levels, at least approval from the DAs' office and help
from one or more judges.
For years, I've corresponded with the State Attorney Generals'
Office, and, gee, they'd really like to help, but they're so
darn busy with other cases ...
No one in that office gives a damn about a half dozen court
orders that have never been enforced; let alone taking on
additional work stopping that kind of activity CURRENTLY going on.
Good example. There's a lady in Columbus Ohio (the state capitol) that had some 'prime downtown' real estate. For years,
she tried to get it rezoned so she could develop it. It was
assessed at around 2 million. She sold it to the 'city'
for 250,000 with a contractual agreement it was for public
use and public use only (parks, schools, public building, whatever).
The city immediately rezoned it 'heavy industrial' and sold
it for 10 million dollars.
I don't know about you, but I consider that fraud and fraud
well documented in the Recorder of Deeds Office and the
Zoning Board Office. There are special state statutes for
fraud when it comes to real estate. The State Attorney Generals'
Office can't be more than a half block from those offices ...
but, gee, they're too busy to simply copy the evidence and
prosecute an airtight case.
That case made headlines all over Ohio. I doubt the lady is
still alive. But I would be willing to bet you coffee and
donuts her heirs are still in court trying to settle the
matter civilly. I'd be willing to bet considerably more that
no criminal charges were EVER filed.
If you or I had property in Columbus and we made even the most
minor change to our land usage (like adding one more mercury vapor
light to our car lot) ... we'd be slapped with fines from BOTH
Zoning and State Attorney General before the electricians
even finished stripping the wires.
Believe it, in many states, 'hard time' is mandatory for
Zoning violations subsequent to conviction. Most people pay
the zoning fine as fast as it's slapped on them trying to
avoid jail. But the Zoning Board, the State Attorney Generals
office, and the 'locals' are free to break it any time,
any place, for any reason.
So, no, not recommended ... very hazardous to your health. I'm
just satisfied you're a little more aware of what's going
on in the rest of the country.
Now, regarding the thing in Ohio where the local cops were scamming in on the highway patrol's jurisdiction to collect money for their town from the income of citations they issued, I do recall hearing about that. I think it was on one of those TV news/magazine programs like "Dateline NBC" or "20/20" or something like that. That's incredible to hear that something like that went on. I'm just glad that it was brought to light so that an end could be put to that kind of crap. I must admit though, I was rather surprised by your comments regarding your fright of driving into downtown Clevland, and even going so far as to drive to the next state just for a cup of coffee. You don't have to answer this question if you don't want to, and I truly mean no disrespect at all by this, but do you think that's being a little too paranoid or do you really believe that something could happen to you in that county? I can't comment on Clevland PD or any agency back east. I know absolutely nothing about them, except for the things I witness on the TV show "COPS". To most cops here on the west coast, it gives us goosebumps to watch what those east coast cops do on calls. Their officer safety is almost non-existent, and it's just an entirely different world back there. I scream at the TV sometimes yelling for the cop to do whatever, because it bothers me that much.
I did want to make a quick comment (because I forgot to last night) about the officer down the street from that guy driving his car that was impounded. I must say, again, I find that story so incredibly hard to believe. Asset Seizure laws are very specific in when they can take place, how they take place, and what they do with the items once they have them. This is another reason I question the entire scenario that the author wrote about that incident. Let's assume for a moment that the guy really did send in the bail amount, and that he did it perfectly on time. Now let's also assume that the Post Office totally messed up, and they did not deliver that item for several weeks or even months. So the fact that the money did not arrive at the court house in time was NOT the defendant's fault. I'll go along with that no problem. Now let's assume that a bench warrant gets issued (bench warrant is a warrant issued at the bench by a judge) for the guy failing to pay his fine for the original traffic infraction. I do not know Ohio law, but common sense tells me it would be a misdemeanor for FTA or FTPF (Failure to Appear, or Failure To Pay Fine) and not a felony. But either way, that's okay and it doesn't really matter for the point of my story. Why on earth would the police do an asset seizure on his car when it involves a simple FTPF on a traffic ticket? There is MUCH more involved here than this guy is saying. Maybe he honestly does not know the rest of the story, because it involves his neighbor and not him directly. So the neighbor could be feeding this guy a line of B.S. just to cover his own tracks of looking like a fool and a criminal. I am stumped as to why they would seize a car on a simple warrant like that. It defies logic and common sense. But if we even go a step further, and say okay, they did seize his car for this warrant. Now, how in the heck is the officer down the street going to get his car to drive around??? He's not!! It doesn't happen. Generally speaking, vehicles that are seized are sold at auction and the cash from the sale goes into a special fund as required by law. The way that asset seizure money can be spent is very specific and extremely controlled by strict laws. But there are instances where the police department may keep a car that they seize. It's not common, but it does happen. The reason for this would be to assign to detectives that work undercover details. Instead of the city or county going out and buying a brand new car for the detective, they save some bucks and give him an assest forfeiture vehicle instead. Now, with all of the HIGHLY unlikely things coming together in order for this to happen, and then on top of it all, the cop that lives down the street just happens to be the detective assigned to that same vehicle---wow, those are some pretty incredible odds to take place in order for that entire scenario to play out like that. Can you understand why I am just so suspicious of everything? Not much that he says adds up---there is so much missing from the story, and so much that doesn't make sense---I'm having a very hard time taking his story at face value. I'm sure something happened, and that the police forced entry into the house and everything, but from there his imagination went a little wild in writing what he did. There is also another explanation also. I attended a very interesting class that teaches the psychology of the human memory, and how different factors effect what we remember. In times of extreme stress, it is common for a person to remember something that happened that never really happened at all. Then a few days, weeks, or even months later---it suddenly dawns on the person that what they said never really happened at all. They suddenly remember the true sequence of events. The human brain does funny things, especially when under extreme stress. It was an excellent class that I went to, and I really liked it because I could remember where things like that happened to me in the past. For example, one night when I was working patrol it was a very quiet night, about 2 AM. I was slowly driving throug a shopping center when all of a sudden I came upon a burglary in-progress. I could see the suspects inside with the ski masks, gloves, and everything. I put out the information on the radio, then started to plan very quickly in mind how to set up the scene and where to tell incoming units to go. I placed myself on the northeast corner of the building which was not at all where my police car was parked. When the responding units arrived, they were looking all over for me because they saw my car, but I was nowhere in sight. The watch commander got angry because suddenly I was not where I said I was originally. After the detail was over and things were under control, I told my boss that I got on the radio a second time and updated my location to the northeast corner. He said that I did not, and I then checked with other officers on the scene as well as with communications---they all said that I did not update my location. After a few days of thinking about that (because it really bothered me), I finally realized what had happened. I had thought about it in my mind, yet at the same time, I was planning where to have the other units go, what I would do if the suspects came out before backup arrived, and a million other things I was thinking about all at the same time. Combine that with the adrenaline pumping and the feeling of actually witnessing this crime right in front of me with multiple suspects, and I was under extreme stress. I honestly believed that I had picked up the microphone and reported to the dispatcher my new location. But in reality, I never did it. I just thought I did because it was in my plans at the time. So this class that I took was right on the money about those things. Under extreme stress, people will honestly think a certain incident took place when in reality, it did not take place at all. So maybe there's a little bit of that going on in that original item that I'm referring to from the Usenet. I don't know, but it would make sense to me.
Regarding your comment about bad checks being written in Ohio---wow! I'm glad I don't live there any more. I used to live in a suburb of Cincinnati (Montgomery) and I'm glad I'm not there any more. California has a "non sufficient funds" law, but it's got to be WAY beyond a simple mistake of being a bad bookkeeper and not balancing your checkbook. You really have to go out of your way to get charged with that crime here.
Thanks for the info on Jeff Cooperstein. I have never heard of him, or his web page. I'll look it up in a search engine unless you have the URL handy. Why on earth would he say something so arrogant and disrespectful like, "there are only two kinds of people: police and criminals. All the rest haven't been
convicted yet." Has his employer let him get away with this? Or does this fall under a 1st amendmant issue, and they can't touch him? I'm of the feeling that cops should be held to a higher standard, but I know I'm in the minority with that opinion. My final comment tonight is a simple one, but I feel it's important. At least, for me, it's important that I say this. Even though there are bad cops out there, and you can prove it by showing some good evidence of it, there are still a hell of a lot of good cops out there working their tails off to keep the public safe. Just as a quick example, look at all of those cops yesterday in Atlanta where that nut went in and murdered 9 innocent people after killing his wife and 2 kids by beating them with a hammer, then making sure they were dead by drowning them in the bathtub. Those cops, from what I saw on the live pictures on TV, were doing an awesome job of protecting people in an unknown situation like that. The suspect was still outstanding, and nobody knew if he was still there hiding somewhere and was going to come out shooting again or what. Cops from all over the county showed up. Off-duty cops were there in blue jeans and t-shirts with a vest on and their gun belt, jumping in to help out wherever they could. The huge majority of cops are good people. I feel really bad that, for whatever reason, you have had bad experiences in your life with them that has caused you to mistrust and dislike them so much. I wish there was something I could do to let you know that they're all not bad, and that it goes way beyond a small list of "the good ones" that you won't reveal for their own protection. Maybe you live in an area that is crawling with corrupt cops---I don't know. I don't see how an entire county can be that way, but I guess anything is possible. If you ever want to write me off-list and ask me if something that you saw a cop do is appropriate or not, or any other question, i'd be happy to answer anything you (or anybody else here) might have. Again, I will be the first one to admit there are dirty cops out there. But there is no place for them in society and they do NOT deserve to wear a badge. My eyes have been opened quite a bit since following conversations in here. I did not realize there were so many questionable cases out there, so I am learning a lot as I go as well.
Until next time.....
What peaked my curiosity about this incident was a) it occurred in or around Cleveland and b) some years ago, there was a series of 'traffic stop scams' on Interstate 77 north from the Ohio Turnpike to Cleveland, that made local headlines. Normally, the highway patrol handles this major artery in and out of Cleveland. I77 cut through a small section of a 'borough-corporation' and the locals started making random, and illegal according to the court, stops to increase the borough income. It occurs to me that part of the scam was to stop motorists on the off-ramp, usually posted 35, which is closer to the '31 mph in a 25 mph zone' claim. However, I can't say for certain that this incident actually occurred on or near I77.
To make a long story short, this scam came to a head once word got around to other motorists. People started going through that section at 30 mph even during rush hour and even though the posted limit was 60 mph ... we're talking 8 lanes going 30 mph day in and day out, not just the off ramp. That may be common in Los Angeles but it isn't in Cleveland.
You and I are reading the article entirely different.
What I don't know is if the postmark predated the due date of the fine. I couldn't tell that from the article. I understand that, normally, a warrant is issued weeks sometimes months after a fine becomes overdue. What I don't know is how long before the warrant was issued the postmark was dated. I couldn't tell that from the article either.
Now, if the check had bounced, I could understand that. In Ohio, you get everything but the death sentence if you pass a bad check. I don't consider it acceptable to get 10 years for a bad check, but it happens. However, there aren't very many bad checks written in Ohio anymore, either.
In all fairness, *alt.true-crime* is sometimes a zoo. Often, the postings sound a little bit childish (did too, did not, did too) ... sort of like, ummmm ... here, sometimes ? Occasionally, however, there are some great crime discussions. When it gets too zooish, I surf elsewhere. For instance, they're still trying to solve the Black Dahlia case and Lizzie Borden always gets rehashed as a quarterly event.
Thanks for your comments, though. I do appreciate your perspective on what procedure is supposed to be. As for my own situation, I've found the best way to deal with the police is to avoid them entirely. I never leave the house unless absolutely necessary, I shop in a different county, when I eat dinner out, I do it in a different county. Quite frequently, I switch counties. I'll never, ever, drive into downtown Cleveland again. In fact, I really only feel comfortable when I'm completely out of the state. For now, I don't have the luxury of moving to another state. Haven't been able to sell the properties (real estate). Many times, I drive to Michigan just to get a cup of coffee and to get away from our state corruption. There's no way I'd stop anywhere in my own town, township, or county for coffee or food, or any other reason for that matter. But, it gives me a chance to read some Michigan papers and read about someone elses' corruption.
I did find it interesting that the 'policeman down the street', in the article, was driving the guys neighbors car.
The first thing I would like to say, and I want to make sure this is clear, is that I would NEVER back up, support, encourage, or approve of a dirty cop. Please don't ever think that's what I am doing here, because I will not ever do it. I have turned in a dirty cop once in my career (different department than mine), and I will do it again. There simply is no room for those types of people in law enforcement.
Now, with that said, first let me respond to the item that you posted from the Usenet where the person was inside his neighbor's home when the police stormed in with guns, made an arrest, and left. There is one VERY important thing to keep in mind when reading these kinds of stories, and it is a very basic principle to keep in mind at all times: There are ALWAYS two sides to every story. Maybe this is burned into my mind so much from being a cop---always getting all sides of a story before making a decision on what to do. But I feel it is very important--as a matter of fact, crucial, when dealing with stories like these. Again, I am not endorsing the cop's behavior if what they did was wrong and against policy and law. But I do feel the need to respond to this in a general sense. First of all, sometimes police work is violent. We sometimes have to get down and dirty with people, yelling, screaming, punching, kicking, pointing guns, hitting people with a baton, spraying them with OC, etc. To somebody that has lived a fairly "normal" life and has had very little contact with the police other than seeing them around town and maybe getting pulled over once or twice, witnessing something like that can be VERY traumatizing to a person. What they THINK they are seeing may not be what actually is truly happening. I remember in the academy when I was being trained on high-risk entries into buildings, geez, my hands were shaking which means my gun was shaking, I could feel my heart beating against my vest, I was dripping with sweat---and this was just training! But as you do these things more and more over the years, you get more used to it and it does not have nearly the impact that it once did. So I'm simply trying to point out one thing: PERSPECTIVE. The person that wrote the details of the incident is looking at it through his own eyes, through his own prejudices (we all have them), and through his own perspective. When he says that "the police broke in, guns drawn, threw him to the carpet, handcuffed him, and spirited him off to jail"--I say, yup--that sounds like a high-risk entry to me. To a untrained eye, my gosh, that must be horrible to be a part of that. I know that I certainly would not want to be caught up in the middle of that stuff! But as a trained police officer, his description of what happened sounds textbook to me. Just from that very general description, it sounds like the police did exactly what they are supposed to do when serving a felony arrest warrant (which is an order from a judge to bring someone before the magistrate). Then the writer goes on to say that his crime was "none" and that his offense was going 31 MPH in a 25 MPH zone. Again, I am NOT endorsing illegal or wrong behavior on the police, but in this particular instance, my "b.s. detector" is going off. I have NEVER met one single cop in my life that would go out of his way to serve an infraction warrant for speeding! If ANY cop brought a suspect into jail on a warrant for going 31 in a 25, I can guarantee you that the cop would be laughed out of the jail and told to get the hell out and come back with a REAL criminal. Police simply do NOT do that for a stupid little warrant like that. As a matter of fact, in the county that I worked in, we were under orders from the County Sheriff to NOT book people into the jail with warrants less than $5,000 bail. So anybody that I stopped or had contact with that had a warrant for anything less than $5,000, I said "have a nice day" and didn't do a thing. I am just having a REALLY hard time believing what this person is saying. If I had a nickel for every person that I heard tell a story in court about what was happening that day that said "we weren't doing anything---the cops just showed up and started harrassing us", then I would have a jar full of nickels by now! It's a common thing for people to say---a defense mechanism of some sort I guess, I really don't know. But so many times, people always start out by saying they "weren't doing anything" when all of a sudden out of nowhere, there were the police, harrassing them for "no reason". My experience with people goes a long way here, and the majority of the time that simply is not true. Then the author of that incident goes on to talk about how the warrant did not get there in time, the post office employees are lazy and drink in the parking lot (which I'm sure they do--I saw that same report on 20/20 last year) which may have delayed the notice arriving at his house, etc, etc. Well, contrary to popular belief (at least in California), a courtesy notice mailed to someone's home informing them that they have an arrest warrant is exactly that----a courtesy notice. There is no legal requirement for a notice to even be mailed. The courts can issue a warrant without your knowledge, and the police can show up and surprise you with an arrest. It happens all the time, and is perfectly legal and I see nothing wrong with that. But generally speaking, a person knows when a warrant is about to be issued on them. It's VERY rare to have a warrant show up and the person is totally shocked---they usually have a pretty good idea that it's coming. Then he says the warrant was in error, and not admissible at trial. Huh? If the warrant was in error, then the case is dismissed. Again, this person is leaving out some very key elements of the story here. If I was "Joe Citizen" (not referring to Citizen Target---just making up a name), and I was reading what that person wrote, I'm sure I would look at that and say to myself, "My God!! That poor guy! Those police are awful and should be fired for what they did!". But because of my experience in seeing BOTH sides, I know without a doubt that some key information is missing from that story, as well as the story is being told from his perspective (which is perfectly okay). Then he says evidence relating to the original charges (speeding) were ruled irrelevant. I'm very confused by that statement---what is he talking about? I've got a mental picture of a couple of different scenarios that took place in the house that night, but I'm not sure which one actually took place because of some key information that is missing. For example, he writes the piece and conveys the message as if the police stormed in, violated people's rights, then stormed out with someone in handcuffs---as if it all happened so fast and he was sitting there dazed and confused after this very quick incident. But then he says the police impounded the car, which tells me this was no quick "in and out" thing. When police impound a car, that takes time and paperwork. Again, he is telling this story from his perspective which is okay---but the readers must not take what he says as gospel. As far as the cop saying, "Shut the fuck up"---yes, it probably happened. Was the officer wrong in doing that? Yes, most likely he was. A lot of cops tend to use very foul language when they really should not be, so I don't doubt him there. Then he says that an officer "kept his gun trained on me"---good! That's exactly what the officer is required to do in a high-risk entry. All occupants are kept at gunpoint until they can be searched for weapons. The author goes on to talk about several other things, but then he mentions that the officers were injured. Of course, me being a seriously injured officer, I do not take to hearing that lightly. Again, I would like to hear all sides of this to see what really happened.
This is one of the inherent problems of police work---the public's misunderstanding of what the police are doing. That is one of the reasons why I have some trepidation about "civilian review boards". In my experience, I personally feel that the administration of the police department ("the brass") does a very good job of policing the police. If anybody has ever been involved in an I/A investigation, it scares the heck out of you. Even if you did nothing wrong, you're still scared. People lose sleep, lose weight, and get very stressed during the weeks or months it takes to investigate a citizen generated officer complaint. I know that there is a feeling with the public that "nothing is being done" but that is just not true at all. Again, I can only speak from my experience out on the west coast. As a sidenote, I can say that my department and several others around me use the TV show "COPS" as training tapes on what NOT to do. West coast law enforcement has always been years ahead of east coast law enforcement. I'm not sure why that is, I just know that it's true. So maybe in a huge department like NYPD or Baltimore PD or whatever, maybe the I/A process is a joke and the cops DO get away with things. If that's the case, I don't know what the answer is. It's a very complex issue that I don't have any answers for. But I definitely see the public's side of things, because they think that when they complain, nothing happens. In my case in my area, it's just not true at all. If we screw up, we get in a hell of a lot of trouble and become a "marked" person for a while. Other cops know that you screwed up, so they avoid you for a while until you can prove yourself again as being a good cop. Here is one way to look at this that may or may not help to illustrate my point: Unfortunately, the quality of officers that are being hired these days has changed drastically over the last several years for various political reasons. One of the things that has been a positive result of this change in hiring is that these new cops come from the "me" generation. In other words, they just care about "me, me, me". That old saying about the "code of silence" just doesn't hold water these days. Why on earth would a cop jeopardize his career, his paycheck, his mortgage, his kids, his car, etc, to cover up for some piece of crap cop that doesn't play by the rules? Well, I'm here to tell you that it doesn't happen any more. People in general, including cops, are too interested in themselves these days. You won't see a group of cops standing behind a dirty cop because of a "code of silence"---they're not about to risk losing a good paycheck and making house payments. That's just a fact of the times that we live in.
Citizen Target: I honestly do appreciate it when you post specific incidents here. I enjoy reading them, and trying to piece together what happened. I hope that maybe we can learn a little bit from each other. I know that I am learning some things from you that I did not know before. We don't have to agree with each other, but if we end out learning a few new things along the way then I think that's great.
It's getting too late for me now to continue with responses to the other things, but I'll get around to it soon enough---tomorrow most likely. Have a good one. (PS: I hope there aren't too many typos tonight---I'm too tired to go back and check!)
Police broke in, guns drawn, threw him to the carpet, handcuffed him, and spirited him off to jail.
He was later convicted of resisting arrest, terroristic threats, and aggravated assault. He is serving 5 years hard time.
His crime ? NONE. His offense ? Speeding, 31 mph in a 25 mph zone.
His mail-in fine arrived from the magistrate during his trial, postmarked BEFORE any warrant was issued. Personally, I think the magistrate simply misplaced his mail; but Cleveland is famous for 'late mail' since the Postal workers spend most of their time sleeping and drinking in the parking lot. The fact, and evidence, that the warrant was in error
was not admissible at trial. The charges, you see, had nothing to do with the motor violation. The charges, you see, were relevant only to the 'defendants behavior' at the time of the arrest. Evidence not relating to the arrest itself, including the original charges, speeding, were ruled irrelevant.
What was the 'defendants behavior'? Police asked which one of us was 'John Doe (real name omitted here)'. My neighbor responded, "I am. What's going on ?". Police responded, "Shut the fuck up.". One of the officers kept his gun trained on me at all times. My neighbor said nothing else, not even 'call my wife' and went peaceably. I just stood there with my jaw dropped in awe. Two officers took my neighbor out the front door, one waited at the door, apparently covering the exit, and the other officer backed out the door, his gun still trained on me.
And there I was, alone in my neighbors house, stunned, afraid to leave, afraid to stay. I phoned home and went out a rear window because I couldn't get the back door open. From home, I watched them tow the car.
At trial, they made me out to be 'harboring a fugitive, loud and abusive, aiding and abetting' ... "for what", I says, "standing up, startled by the noise of the front door suddenly caving in ... and four policeman rushing in with guns drawn ?". "You're lucky the officers didn't shoot you", the DA says. The first part of the trial was an absolute joke, the officers testifying about being hospitalized from injuries received. If they got any injuries at all, it must have been from some other arrest or a big fight among themselves.
My neighbor lost his job, his house, his family, and the policeman down the street now drives his 'seized car'; impounded the night of the arrest. My neighbor now has a criminal record and will never be able to get a decent job; assuming he gets out of prison alive. I'm moving the hell out of the state. I don't want to be within 150 miles of any of those asshole policemen. I'll send you my new EMail when I get moved in.
I stand corrected. I did use the word 'all' in one of my posts, while quoting Officer Jeff.
I have Officer Jeff Coopersteins' own words. He has corroborated
those words by executing Deron Grimmit. Deron Grimmits' 'crime' was
driving by the scene of a traffic stop and 'looking at a policeman',
described in police reports as a 'furtive movement'. Police reports
contain a lot of bullshit too.
Q. "What did you do at work today, daddy ?".
Contagious, isn't it. Click here
Yeah, I know some good cops. Their names will remain forever undisclosed for their own protection.
Steve also gave us this:
Which leads to this:
and this
... and so far, you're the only one who has shown the slightest bit of interest from the police viewpoint ... possibly one other, a few messages down.
Regarding your follow-up comments to what I wrote, I did not mean to imply that you used the word "all" in referring to "all cops". However, that is how I took it from the tone of your posts. In other words, I can't recall you ever saying that the bad cops come from a police department with a good reputation, or that the bad cops were from a very small group of bad cops compared to the thousands and thousands of other good cops out there, or whatever. It would just be nice to see some sort of acknowledgement that not "all" cops are bad--because that's all you ever refer to. Because of my experience, I know as fact that not all cops are bad. I have met some pretty damn good cops in my life that's for sure.
The 2 references that you made (the wife answering the door at night, and the husband getting his gun when he hears her screaming, and then the other example after that)----this is the first I have heard anything about them. I would be very interested in reading more about those events. I do not want to read a newspaper article on it---the news media lies, and it is in their job description (literally) to put some sort of corruption in their stories that involve police deadly incidents. I always try to keep in mind that there are 2 sides to EVERY story, and I would like to learn what both sides have to say about those incidents. You've definitely got my attention, because that is some serious stuff if it went down exactly as reported. But again, anything in the mainstream news media I take with a grain of salt. Things are usually exaggerated, the truth "stretched", and plain old lies told. Through the Freedom Of Information Act, I can access the police reports for those incidents and I would like to see what they say compared to what news reports say. I am not skeptical just when it comes to police stories---but most stories that come out of the mainstream media. Before I was injured and had all of these horrible things happen to me, I never paid attention to these kinds of things (news media, corrupt cops, etc, etc). But now that I find myself suddenly retired with lots of time on my hands, I have been digging up all sorts of information. I have learned not to accept the first thing I am told, but instead to dig deep to see what else I can find. I'm not doubting what you are reporting at all---I just want to hear both sides, that's all. I'm just wondering this: If the cops lied and did all of these things wrong and illegal as you say, why did nothing happen to them and why did the DA not prosecute? That doesn't make sense to me.
Anyway, thank you for giving specific info like this. I really appreciate seeing specific complaints/gripes/etc instead of the other comments that sometimes pop up on here (I'm sure you know what I'm referring to).
Take care....
BTW, you are THE only policeman posting that thinks there is something
wrong with shooting unarmed, underage youths in the back.
You, conservatively, must be one in a thousand (police).
You are THE only policeman posting who thinks the 36+ kills,
albeit non-representative in your view, may be wrong.
You, conservatively, must be one in ten thousand (police).
Welcome back from vacation. No, the word 'all' does not occur
in my posts. I did, however, cite two (of the many thousands of
available examples and case histories).
In each of the cases, Donald Scott and Donald Carson, the 'bad cop'
or 'bad cops' did indeed enlist the services of their 'brothers
in blue', more than 30 men in each case, and they did indeed
protect, defend, and serve in unlawful search and seizures
resulting in death and permanent injury.
No law enforcement personnel, as I recall, were ever prosecuted
in either case.
I supported my argument. You, on the other hand blasted an
argument I did not make. Typical, and apparently reflexive,
police behavior to accuse a man of something he didn't do.
"Citizen Target" has written some thought-provoking statements, and as always, I have to point out that I respect the other person's opinions and statements. However, that doesn't mean that I agree with them. Citizen: In case you have missed some of the things I have said in the past, I will repeat one of them just in case. I pride myself on keeping an open mind, and I try to be as un-biased an un-prejudiced as humanly possible. I prefer to listen to all the facts, all sides, and then make up my own mind on how I feel about a certain topic. The first thing I want to comment on is your statement here:
"This bears repeating:
If you own something a 'bad cop' wants, he will kill you and he will take it away from you ... and his brothers
in blue will protect, serve, and defend him, before and after the fact."
I have to disagree with this. A blanket statement like that, saying that a "bad cop" will do anything, including murder, to get an item of property from a citizen is, in my opinion, a fairly reckless and careless statement to make. If you want to look strictly at percentages, I would bet that the police as a profession have the highest ethics and morality than that of any other profession in the USA. I do not have any satistics to back up my statement---I'm just making an educated guess that it is true based upon my experience over the years. So when these bad things do indeed happen, you are converting that to an entire nation of bad cops out to get the citizens and that simply is not true.
As far as Ruby Ridge, Waco, the FBI, and other Federal law enforcement agencies---I agree with you 100%. There are some very seriously wrong things going on right now in our country. But you are attacking the wrong people. The people you should be going after are Janet Reno, Bill Clinton, the FBI Director (I forget his name), and others at the "top". We live in a society right now that has a VERY corrupt federal government. Since I have been retired, I have been doing extensive research on these things and what I have dug up is astonishing. The people of this country damn well better wake up before it's too late. But people will NOT wake up----you know why? Because they are brainwashed with a good economy. As long as they can look at their 401K account and see how great it's doing, they don't care about the other things. This is how the government is carrying out their plan to become more socialist than capitalist. There is A LOT of stuff going on behind the scenes in Washington right now, but I can assure you that both the Republicans and Democrats are a very dirty, corrupt, crime infested, murdering bunch of people. The whole government needs to go and we need to start over. That will never happen, so we are heading towards disaster. And the police will be our last line of defense---the same police that you continue to slam on here. Oh--one more thing. I do not defend the police officers that do wrong. When you post things on there about bad cops committing crimes, you won't hear a peep from me except maybe "good job" that they were arrested and thrown in prison. But that is a very tiny, very small amount of the total percentage of cops in this country. For some reason, you totally overlook the good cops and do not want to give credit to the ones that work their asses off, put their life on the line, and serve the public every day. I have come to the unfortunate realization that most people have a closed mind, and they will not allow themselves to step back---just for a moment---and look at a few other things. Most people have "tunnel vision" and they will only see what they choose to see. All I am asking of everybody is to simply step back, and take a look at the whole picture with an open, un-biased mind. If people would do that, I feel that it would bring things into perspective a little bit better.
You also wrote: "In a civilized country, there is arrest, trial, and punishment.". Well, that IS the system that we have in this country. If you are trying to say that we do not have this system because of the 36+ kills listed on the web site plus the items that you have mentioned, then I guess there is not much more I can say. Again, that is a tiny percentage overall compared to the hard working cops that are out there all over the country, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week working their butts off. The Waco tragedy, and the Ruby Ridge tragedy, in my opinion, happened because of our corrupt federal government--Janet Reno and Bill Clinton specifically. I really hope that people are realizing that they can not get their information from the mainstream news media. If you are basing everything that you say on what appears in your morning newspaper, or what is said on CNN or on the Nightly News, then you are sadly under-informed. I will not get into this whole separate topic of the news media, but I will just make a very quick comment about them. The news media continues to move farther and farther away from being a "free press" with "free speech". They are moving much closer towards being a government controlled propaganda machine. I have loads and loads of evidence to back this up, but it is simply not appropriate to discuss that issue here. My main point is simply that you can NOT rely on the anti-police stories that appear in the news. You are usually only getting about 20% of what actually happened, with the other 80% being totally fabricated to fit what they need for that day. Thanks to the Internet, they can't shut us up and they can't prevent us from finding the TRUTH! We can not be stopped and we will not allow the government to brainwash us any more. This will have to come to an end very soon, because it is very close to the boiling point right now. Oops---sorry. I won't get into that topic.
The bottom line for me is, and I have said this before, yes---there are bad cops that do some horrible things. They have committed murder and other terrible crimes that make police officers everywhere look bad. But to just mark ALL cops as being bad with such blanket statements I feel, in my personal opinion, is being terribly uninformed and very biased.
If the Feds sniff only incoming packets at their own site, that could be a winner. Problem is, they don't stop there, do they ? When the Feds start sniffing packets LEAVING my personal machine ... or my ISP ... or my Web Site ... or my IRC Channel ... that's invasion of privacy and better be
accompanied by a court order. Personally, I don't think the Feds have ever asked for a court order until long after they have been doing 'invasive surveillance'. They just destroy or make unavailable all tapes and evidence predating the court order.
The upside is, they DID nail John Gotti ... but what shortcuts were taken prior to court orders ? The downside is, how long were the NYPD 'on' to John Gotti ? Why were they so ineffective ? There are no satisfactory answers to these questions. Easy to say Gotti deserved what he got, shortcuts notwithstanding. But, when they use those same short cuts on the innocent ... unacceptable. When they use those same short cuts on the innocent AND get convictions ... unacceptable AND inhumane.
Bleh.
Nuremburg, post war Germany:
Burgermeister: We didn't know it would come to this, all this killing ...
Allied Judge: It started the first time you condemned to die a man you knew to be innocent.
This country, 1999:
The police have already done that, countless times, nationwide, sans arrest, sans hearing, sans trial.
In a civilized country, there is arrest, trial, and punishment. The police and our legal system have devised a way to eliminate the middle man, vis a vis justice and the courts. Today, if there is a trial at all, it is last, assuming you survive the arrest in the first place. Surviving an arrest is becoming more and more unlikely and more and more uncommon.
If you own something a 'bad cop' wants, he will kill you and he will take it away from you ... and his brothers in blue will protect, serve, and defend him, before and after the fact:
I understand the point that police must speed, drive on sidewalks, etc., for good reasons. Never being questioned once. Not most of the time, but sometimes "people" speed for good reasons, but are stopped, questioned, cited, and punished. I'm not just talking about speeding. This exemption applies to everything. So, are police actually our "our" fellow citizens?
I for one will start hating life if a fully armed conflict broke out in my country, state, county, community. People dieing in the streets, in their homes, children afraid and crying, looters doing what they do best (not a good time), homes burning to the ground, streets ripped open by heavy armored vehicles, black skies... ugly picture isn’t it? This is definitely the last thing I want to see/happen. You are correct about an armed revolution being the most inefficient way to solve (if at all) any problem, but from history, whether it is American, Irish, African, German, or Russian history, an armed revolution has proven to be the most effective. Why is it that it takes a war to be fought and lost (everyone looses) before the government opens their eyes and realizes that there is a problem and people are not content? It doesn't matter how many letters or e-mails you send your congressman. How many letters have YOU sent your congressman? Have YOU seen any positive results?
Not that I disrespect the opinions of the police officers here, but I don't believe reporting to watch commanders or chiefs of police will change anything. Some of the people here, as well as people and myself I know have tried for years. All it ever does is generate more paperwork. Think of it this way. It doesn't matter what occupation you are in (with the exception of sales), paperwork means more manual work, filing, routing, tracking, etc. Who wants to do that? My point is, more paperwork doesn't mean more results.
Am I saying the only answer is taking up arms against police? Absolutely not. Robert is also absolutely correct about killing cops will solve nothing. It will only evolve MORE military-like (like that isn't happening everyday). Police will start carrying heavier armor, more powerful weapons, laws made stricter, etc. And worst of all (listen up people), the slain police officer becomes a martyr. Where does that leave the "cop-hater"? Nowhere. DO I want to kill police? Yes, but not physically because of the above description. What I mean by that is that we don't need police. We don't need stricter laws. We just need educate the general public to take care of themselves, be self-sufficient. We need more money spread around to eliminate "want". That's why we have conflict. People without money have "needs". People with money have "wants". We don't need more police. We don't need more laws. Well, don't get me started.
That's my idea of killing police. Do I want to crush the credibility of a "bad" cop? Yes. Do I want to crush the credibility of Police? No. Why? This will only bring refinement, not elimination, therefore, introducing more laws.
Specifically, I have asked all these sources if Willie Jones was ever repaid and several journalists who wrote his story. None of them have stated that Willie Jones was repaid. None. They can't. They can't get an answer either. Until such time as a reliable source states that Willie Jones was repaid then it stands to reason that Willie Jones was not repaid. Its been a mere 8 years since Willie Jones was raped and robbed (pun intended). Eight (8) years is a mere tick of time in civil cases, which his is. Civil cases last forever, as they were designed to do. US DOJ and US DEA, with the help of the rewritten 1984 seizure laws, has exorbitantly and extortively capitalized on these and many, many other matters. Yet they cannot seize annually from a 100 billion dollar crime industry more than a 2 billion dollar pitance. But they, by god, managed to snare Willie Jones' 'undetermined amount of US currency'.
A court order to pay is not a receipt for payment made. I have my own court orders, in my favor, to pay. I've never been paid, sanctions and orders of performance not withstanding. I'm not alone. My favorite example is the Inslaw case wherein 3 US District Courts ordered the US DOJ to pay the 8 million dollars due. US DOJ refused citing its 'absolute power of prosecutorial discretion'. That phrase, apopd, is a direct quote attributable to then US Attorney General Richard Thornburg.
You will not and have not found anything in my 'posts' that stated killing cops was an answer. You will not find emotional reactions in my posts, unless you choose to find it. You will find 'dry humour', unless you choose not to find it. You will sometimes find stinging rhetoric, unless you choose to ignore it. You will sometimes find righteous anger, righteously weighed. Tough. Skip over it. The nation revolves around the 274 million survivors, not the 3/4 million wieners who demand the nation revolve around them.
Structural solution ? There is no structural solution that will be acceptable to the 3/4 million police officers in this nation. We, the remaining and inconsequential 274 million targets, are stuck with the current non-solution. Consider the inverse. I have assumed a population of 300 million, deducted 6 million (approx) criminal population and deducted 20 million (approx) government personnel (federal, state, county, township, and municipal). Structural solution ? Not possible. Unworkable in that, indeed this, kind of environment. The nation revolves around the 274 million survivors, not the 20 million weiners who demand the nation revolve around them. Until such time as that slight disparity is rectified there can be no structural solution. Until that time, 3/4 million wieners form the real Thin Blue Line that separates the other 19 and 1/4 million wieners from the remaining and inconsequential 274 million targets and survivors. You tell me. What has history taught us ? (HINT: See the large letters at the top of this guestbook.)
Don't like my use of the term wieners ? Too emotional for you ? Tough. Pick a word you like better and plug it in there. I can't do all your work for you and you can't do all my work for me. The pen is mightier than the sword only because the words it pens cause many swords to be drawn. I suspect a high number of the 3/4 million Blues have sworn to protect and defend ... but, protect and defend who and from whom ? Certainly not Freddie Vela. Certainly not me. What will be the structural solution ? You tell me. How many of the remaining and inconsequential 274 million are willing to protect and defend ... and protect and defend who and from whom ?
In parting, let me remind you, 'copkiller' can also mean a cop who kills.
... and thank you for your time. I now turn the soapbox over to those wonderful men in Blue who will expound on why shooting unarmed, underage youths, black and hispanic, engaged in no criminal activity, and in the back, is so important toward protecting and defending our nation. But I ask in advance: for who and from whom ?
By the way, Willie Jones never saw any dog at the Nashville airport.
No witness from the airport ever testified about the presence
of a dog at the Nashville airport. Quite simply, there wasn't any
dog involved in the detention of Willie Jones. The dog was pure
prosecutorial fiction.
The prosecutions case in chief rested on the destination city
of Houston. Assets can be lawfully seized if they were used
during the commission of a crime. The prosecution maintained
that the 'undetermined amount of US currency' was seized since
Houston was known as a city with an inordinate amount of drug
dealing and they suspected Willie Jones of traveling to Houston
for that purpose (profiling).
a) Willie Jones never made it to Houston that day.
What no member of law enforcement, including (then) associate
US Deputy Attorney General George Terwilliger III, has ever answered,
nor any US Senator or US Congressman or any senator or congressman
from my own state; is, if the defendant never left Nashville, how
did it commit a crime in Houston (the defendant is the 'undetermined
amount of US currency, believe it or not) ?
Willie Jones never got his money back; you can bank on that.
The majority of the 36+ kills on Steve's page were unarmed,
underage, black/hispanic youths engaging in no criminal activity
whatsoever.
One was a cops' wife.
At least two were shot in the privacy of their homes during
unlawful arrest and seizure attempts.
One was 10 year old Freddie Vela who was shot and killed
by an off-duty, drunken cop who fired his gun to scare off
a passerby who had stopped to help the drunken cop. The
errant bullet killed young Freddie.
These kills are the primary theme of Steve's website. Not
one cop who posts here has given these kills even passing
notice or acknowledgment. Not one cop has even attempted to
verify these kills. In fact, the only post by a cop concerning
these kills was a post claiming that these kills had rid
society of useless individuals and criminals.
You see, Officer Jeff Cooperstein, the Blue Knight of Web
Site Fame stated it best: 'There are only two kinds of people:
Police and criminals. All the rest simply haven't been
convicted yet.'
You see, what you do not understand and what they will not
admit is precisely the same thing. The cops DO want to kill
you and they WILL DO so on the flimsiest of excuses. Today,
they kill unarmed, underage blacks and hispanics because they
can ... with alarming impunity. Do you think for a minute
they will be satisfied with that for long ? Do you think they
will not escalate to 'all the rest of us' ?
Criminals have an advantage. They KNOW the police are looking
for them and take daily active steps to avoid them. 'All the
rest of us' are not avoiding police and that makes us all too
easy targets.
You will occasionally hear a cop claim they abhor a 'bad cop' and
hope such 'bad cops' are taken to justice. So who's going to find
and stop these 'bad cops' ? Certainly not a cop ... Thin Blue Line, plain and simple.
You see, it is not that they abhor the cop for engaging in criminal
behavior, such as killing unarmed, underage kids. It is more that
they abhor that the 'bad cop' was ever caught in the first place.
The only thing wrong with Steve's list is it's way too short. There
are hundreds kills. No offense, Steve, I know your time is limited.
In fact, I stopped after I had found another 50 ... and we're only
talking about kills, here ... not the other famous felonies. Those
number in the thousands.
But, you won't find a cop posting here that really gives a shit about
those cop-felons either. They can't even get it through their heads that
a 'copkiller' is also a 'cop who kills'. They don't care a whit about
that kind of killer.
... you said ... " .... fucked up people out there !!" Take a peek at
some of Stevies' links and you can read all about them.
Regarding the police issuing tickets to students/non-students at basketball games, I of course was not there to see any of this. My comment is simply based on my experience of working in law enforcement, and I've gotta tell you that I find it so hard to believe that is happening. First of all, what is the violation that the tickets are being written for? I'm just taking a guess here because I don't know, but is it possible that whatever violation it is that they are writing has something to do with the campus code of visitors being allowed to park somewhere for certain events, but students not being allowed to park there---thus what you see? I am not doubting what you are seeing with your own two eyes, but I am doubting if what you are seeing is actually what is happening. Do you feel comfortable asking the officer next time you see that happening what violation he/she is writing on the citation and why he skips the students cars? In my opinion, *if* what you are seeing is indeed what is really happening, the COMPLAIN! Complain to the Chief of Police, and write a letter to the newspaper. You know as well as I do that the news media foams at the mouth for stories like this. If the police truly are doing what you say, that is a blatant violation of all sorts of ethics and other things. I just can't believe a police department would be so blatant in "selective" enforcement. Remember my example about the black woman running to catch the train---what she witnessed really did happen, no doubt about it. But her perception of WHY it happened was totally wrong because she did not know the full story. I think you deserve to know the full story in this case. My years of experience just tell me that some part of the story is missing here. If it's true and you won't notify the papers, then I will! Give me the info and I'll do something with it.
You talked about the police and "who are they to say who is wrong", and then made a reference to the Nazis. Well, the police do not make judgements as to who is right or wrong. They make decisions, and make arrests, write tickets, etc, based on their training and the laws. They are NEVER allowed to decided that somebody is wrong---that's what the courts are for. Everybody is entitled to their day in court. Cops lose in court---they lose cases in tickets they write, they lose evidence that has been collected, juries find people not guilty of the crimes they were charged with---nothing like the Nazis. I see your point, but in my opinion, it's exaggerated a bit by comparing the Nazis to modern day law enforcement. Now if you were talking about another country and not the USA, then I would be more in agreement with you. But even though our judicial system leaves a lot to be desired, it's still one of the best systems this world has to offer.
And I must take issue with your comments regarding the police speeding to calls when you said, "police also have the right to
choose what laws they enforce, by their "common sense". Again, this is my opinion from having 13 years of law enforcement experience, but you are WAY off here. I am not saying that the police can just pick and choose what laws they want to follow, and what laws they want to break. It doesn't work that way. However, this is one of those things that I completely understand where you are coming from because you have never been a cop, and you don't have the advantage of having a view of this topic from a cop's perspective. I'm not sure if you missed my point or not, but I think it is worth repeating. Technically, yes, if a police officer is speeding and not requesting to be exempt from the rules of the road by turning on the lights and/or siren, then that is a clear violation of the law---no doubt about it. But I am here to tell you that there are certain circumstances, certain incidents, certain times in your career, where you must choose common sense over a minor violation of the law. I don't know if you have kids or not, but if you do, just imagine that you are at work and so is your wife. You both work at least 30 minutes away from your home. Your 10 year old daughter is home alone after school, upstairs in her room watching TV when all of a sudden, she hears glass break downstairs from a window and then she hears somebody actually INSIDE the house. She is so scared, she is shaking and crying. She calls you at work to tell you "Daddy someone's breaking into the house---help me please!!!". You either tell her to call 911, or you do it yourself to get the police over there to protect your precious little girl from whatever is going on. The dispatcher when he or she takes the call gets goose bumps on the back of her neck, and when the police get dispatched to that call, their blood pressure increases, the adrenaline starts flowing, and because of your experience, you can almost picture exactly what is going on there.As the officer gets dispatched to the call, he realizes that he is the closest unit to the scene. But it's 4PM on a weekday, and traffic is a nightmare. The main route there is backed up for a mile in traffic lights, and your only way around it is to drive down the shoulder of the road, or get up on the sidewalk and drive down it with the rear lights only flashing. Then, once you clear that traffic, you're still on your way. Is the officer going to drive 35 MPH in a 35 zone at the same time the dispatcher is keeping the little girl on the phone, and you are receiving updates on the radio, "Unit 6L43 the r/p (reporting party) now advising she hears the suspect coming upstairs, the r/p is now hiding under the bed". So, the officer sits at a red light. It's a long light. Okay, now it's green, back to 35 MPH again. "Unit 6L43, the r/p advises the suspect is in her room but she is still under the bed". There's the officer, nope, can't go over 35 because the sign says I can't. My point here is simply that experience goes a LONG way in police work. You can bet your know-know-what that the officer is going to haul ass to get there as quickly as he can. Yup--he's going to speed, and he's going to break the law. I don't think that is an abusive use of police power--I think that's just plain old good police work, doing what's right to protect the public. You may still disagree with me, and that's fine. I respect your opinion, but I definitely disagree with it. I would appreciate it if you could re-think this one and try to understand where my explanation is coming from. There is the world of black and white, and then there is the world of grey---police work has LOTS of grey areas. I would hope, and I even encourage the police to speed to calls like that without their lights and siren. I want them to a call like that FAST--to save that girl from whatever trauma might be about to happen to her. It's the right thing to do.
As far as my comment about crime being here all the time as long as humans are on this planet, you mentioned Afghanistan. I suppose I should have specified that I'm sticking to the USA, not other countries. I'm referring to the society that we live in. So when you ask "crime according to who", I say according to the society that we live in.
You said that cops are responsible for their own actions, which is true. But then you said that it's their choice whether or not to follow commands, laws, etc... It is??? Since when? Not in any police department I've ever seen, that's for sure. If a cop decides to choose what commands he will follow, he might as well turn in his badge. The police department is structured on a para-military command structure. That's why there are different "ranks"---Lieutenant, Sergeant, etc. The bottom line is, the cops WILL do what they are told. That's how the system works. If a cop does not do what he is told, that is being insubordinate. Unless the cop is told something that they know is wrong, such as: "get out your shotguns and go down to the mall. start shooting people at random". I'm sure the cop would realize that the commander has gone out of his mind and not follow that command---that's a common sense issue. What are you suggesting the cops do? Pick and choose what commands and laws they want to follow? If you want that, move to Mexico. They seem to have that system perfected just fine. And the Mexican police aren't corrupt at all now, are they?
Regarding skateboarders and "trespassing on public property", I'm not sure why you are confused about that. Trespassing on public property has been a law for years. There are certain restrictions to it, and you can't just pick who you want to get for trespassing and who you don't. A shopping center I guess you could say is public property, but when it gets right down to the technicalities of it, it's not. It is private property, owned by a person or a corporation. The city government has nothing to do with it's maintenance. I agree that business owners and employees should try to talk with the skateboarders before calling the police. But where I work, they had been doing that for months without success. The skateboarders would just flip them off, call them names, and continue riding. That's why they finally had to call the police. The shopping center has signs posted all over the place "NO SKATEBOARDING". When the police arrive and tell them that they are not welcome in the shopping center if they are going to skateboard, that is their official warning to stop. They won't be arrested or ticketed if they say "okay" and just stop. But if they ignore what the officer tells them, and are skateboarding 5 minutes after the police leave, then the property owner has every right in the world to make a citizen's arrest (with the police) for trespassing. Remember, that is not the police making the actual charge---it's the citizen who is the "arresting officer"--the cop just does the paperwork and takes the person to jail. The arrest falls back onto the citizen that wanted the arrest made. I think this might be one of those "perspective" things. People see the police arresting the skateboarders "just for skateboarding". Well, it's often more complicated than that.
I'm out of time. Time for vacation! As always, thanks for listening. I'll catch up on this stuff in a few days.... I, like most people (generalizing), don't like to hurt other people, but as far as people getting along and not hurt each other, I think that it's our animal instinct. We will hurt each other, for whatever reason. Basically, we are territorial. To people, territory could be related to just about anything: food, money, cars, women, power - anything. As long as society is materialistic and selfish, people will hurt other people. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to make excuses for the wrong doings of society. It's just human nature. At this point, this topic can branch off in many different directions, but to stay in one direction we'll go this way. So, what does this all mean? Our laws, regulations are put in place and executed to... regulate human nature? It would be nice to know that "we" have evolved enough to realize that our existance is dependent on working together, but perhaps we have not evolved that far yet. Like Rodney King said, "Can't we just all get along?" Well, no. As long as we have "big brother" watching over our shoulders, it's difficult to think of police as "partners" in life. We, the citizens, and the police will always be on two different levels and two different points of view until that time comes.
Retired: I do try to look at things from other people's view points. Although I may not always succeed, I think that you'd find I'm more open minded than you think. It's okay that you had a hectic week, and took a while to respond. However, I was somewhat annoyed by your promise to respond, which took a while to do. Adding to my annoyance was probably the fact that I had been checking the guestbook regularly to see if you had responded, which I would not normally have done. As to "is this what you do when you don't get your way," I have no comment on that, for various reasons.
I was not stereotyping police. I was reporting what I have myself seen, first hand, demonstrated by police. If I say "most..." that means that more than 50% of whatever does/is/was whatever. That's not stereotyping, if it's accurate. I don't think that you have any way of conclusively proving me wrong on specific things I have mentioned, as I've experienced them and you have not. Also, if you say, "cops are good," then you would would be stereotyping, wouldn't you? It goes both ways, and if both of us think we're right, then... :)
Echelon is a multi-national network which monitors phone, fax, e-mail, and other forms of communication, run primarily by the U.S., with the help of Britain and Australia. It monitors mostly European communications, I believe. It can reportedly handle at least millions of communications a minute, looks for keywords, phrases, and such, and has been around for at least a couple decades. The U.S. government has all kinds of conspiracies which it hasn't yet been caught in, unlike Echelon. Also, Alec may not have a bad idea. Tin foil might be able to stop Tempest monitoring. Links about Echelon: well, I'll get those later, when I have time (that's why this post is later today)
About the code of silence, all you have to do is get testimony directly from cases where cops are on trial. Although it may not be as wide spread as some would believe, I know it's not nonexistant.
At least we agree on one thing: mainstream news is bullshit.
What are you talking about, my observance of ticketing practices of university police is wrong? You're making these statements that are just as stereotyping as you claim mine are. I, as well as others, have seen it. You can have two cars, one a students, identifiable from stickers and parking permits, bumper stickers, etc. Invariably, the student car always gets ticketed, but not the people there for the game that night.
Thanks for the thing about the black woman (you assumed) thinking that the train operator was rascist. Quite a good example. Also, if the system were open, as it should be, everyone would know exactly how the trains operate, or how police "do their job." Misconceptions like that woman who wanted to get on the train would happen much less if everything was public, and not veiled. After all, as you said, the system is paid for by the people.
You said, "I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong." I agree. And vice-versa. And you also said, "there are LOTS of people who do not like the fact that [the police] have power over them and can tell them that they are wrong." That the thing.... the police are people, too. Who are they to say who is wrong? Oh, because they're a lot of people. Well, so were the Nazis, the nice ones included. The Nazis must have been right because they had uniforms, positions, and there were a lot of them. They were organized, after all! See? It's exactly the same logic, whether you admit it or not. The police do NOT have the right to say who's right and who's wrong, any more than you or I do.
You agree that police speed. And that, "technically," they're supposed to have their lights and sirens. So, they're breaking the law because they feel it's more important, what they're doing. So now, police also have the right to choose what laws they enforce, by their "common sense?" What if an officer chooses not to protect everyone equally, or overlook a basketball fan's car to ticket? Hypothetically, of course.
Not turning your lights or sirens on are not bending the rules, it's breaking them. Just because you consider them to be of less importance doesn't make them any less of laws.
I have no more comments on your paragraph responding to my comment about speeding. I am thinking some more, but don't really feel like getting it all out, right now.
"Where is your documentation or evidence to back this claim up? MOST cops are not anything. Except maybe dedicated, hard workers that put up with a lot of crap from people." That's stereotyping, in my eyes, if I don't think you're right. Exactly like you say I'm stereotyping, but with opposite viewpoints.
"There's nothing to think about here. Crime will never be eliminated. As long as humans walk this planet, there will be crime." Crime according to who? Although I don't agree, in Afghanistan (and various other countries), the men of a family are EXPECTED to kill the daughter of a family, if she is, or is SUSPECTED of, being sexually "impure." In their eyes, this is absolutely not crime.... I think you get my point.....
"Where are the books written for the victims? There aren't any. You can't blame the police officers for that. Blame society, or blame the elected officials, but don't blame the cops." "I didn't make the rules, I just enforce them." Just as soldiers following command bombed damns in the Gulf War, killing thousands of civilians. Just as officers in the German army were ordered to kill Jewish, etc, it's not their fault. Cops are responsible for their actions. It is always their choice whether or not to follow command, order, laws, or whatever. Think for yourselves. I need to read some police oaths, or something.
Notes on your dissertation for "order":
"The owners of businesses call the police department to complain that they are skating on the walkway in front of stores, and customers almost get hit by these people." Now you're making more stereotypes about "these people". If there are several skateboarders who are assholes, EVERY skateboarder is now not allowed to skate in parks, whatever. I know plenty of skateboarders who never put ANYONE in danger, yet have been harassed by police, with no previous indications that that was going to happen. Ya know, it would be good if the storeowners would try to talk to the skateboarders. Not yell, bitch, moan, or whatever, but talk, discuss, ask. I understand that this isn't your or cops' fault, I'm just saying that it'd be nice. :) This thing about skateboarders reminds of a charge I've seen: "trespassing on public property." Hmmm...
"If you are going to just say that "all cops do..."" I have NEVER said that in ANY of my postings. "with no evidence or statistics to back up your comment".... not to say that you're lying, or I'm right, or you're wrong, or anything, but I have never seen you back up anything with statistics, or evidence. All you give is your own experience as a police officer, and your own observances. That's exactly what I'm doing, as well. The ticketing of cars, for example. How am I to know that you are telling the truth? How are you to know that I'm telling the truth? How do I know that you even were a cop? I agree, I have given any external sources to back up what I've said. I haven't really seen any to support or contradict what I've said.
"you do have a point about the skateboarders. I know from personal experience that the police WILL target and stop skateboarders at certain times. This is because, in the town where I work, skateboarders usually have weed or crank on them. But they are not stopped until probable cause has been established. But yes, I do agree somewhat with what you are saying about that topic." Thank you. See? Police have been known to profile, and harass, as I called it. Harass as in not having probably cause.
Maybe there's some truth in something you touched upon before.... maybe it's completely different in different parts of the country. I'm on the east coast, you're on the west. From what I've seen (I haven't been there, yet), San Francisco is really cool... It does seem that New York, Philadelphia.... cops have the worst rap. Hm.
"Andy P.S. I'm sorry for this really long post. But in order for me to answer the questions that were given to me, it had to take this long." Thank you for doing so, anyway.
Regarding Robert's comment about putting the names of officers in the newspaper every time an arrest is made, I see nothing wrong with that. Actually, it's sort of done already right now, but without the names. In local newspapers, there is usually a section called "Police Blotter" where they list the crimes for the week, the location, time and what happened. I guess it's already being printed at the local level, just without the names. And all of that stuff is already public info, so if anybody wanted to find out, that easily could by going to the records section of the police department and asking for the drug arrest reports to review. You can't take the reports home, but you can sit there in the police station and read them yourself. And if the papers were to print every little injury from both cops and suspects, wow, I think that would be a FANTASTIC idea!!! Then the public would finally see how often the police are injured. Our "injury" log at the police station just for this year alone is pages and pages thick. It's like that every year. I would totally dig it if the papers started printing the injuries sustained by the police and the suspects. I can guarantee you 100% that the injured police column will be MUCH longer than the injured suspect column. But if that's what people want is to have these things published, I say go for it! It's already public info anyway, so they might as well publish it. But here is the problem that I can see with that idea: The news media is NOT a public service organization as the police are. The news media is a BUSINESS. And they are in the business of making MONEY. Small, little injuries like a bruised knee of scraped knuckle from an arrest is not "news" to them---not enough blood, guts, and suffering to sell their paper. So I don't think the papers would go for it. They only want the "good stuff"---you know, the dead babies with blood covering them from a horrible accident and the mother crying over the baby, holding the child in her arms. Now THAT is GOOD NEWS! (yes, I'm being sarcastic. You can see how I feel about the news media).
I totally agree with Robert about people getting to know their neighborhoods and taking their communities back. The police and the citizens have got to work together--it is absolutely mandatory if we are to make improvements. I feel this entire country is heading for disaster anyway--give it another 5 years or so and this will be a totally different place then it is today. But that's a whole separate topic. But for now, do what you can to bring people back together and stop everybody from hurting and killing each other. This society is so damn violent!
In response to your comment: "As are the people you're trying to debunk, you're
making generalized, incorrect stereotypes." Oh, *I'm* the one making stereotypes? Hmmmmm...and you're not stereotyping the police? A little hypocritical, wouldn't you say? And I guess you do have a point somewhat---yes, I guess I have made some stereotypical comments but they are directed at the people on this list that I have mentioned (not by name, but by what they say in their postings). Those that claim "cops are racist" and "cops are lazy donut eaters" and all of these other kinds of comments, I guess my comments to them are stereotypical in nature because they're all saying the same, incorrect comments that I totally disagree with.
Next: "-Alec has a lot of good points." As I already noted, he did make some points that I agree with. But I would not say he made "a lot" of good points---he made some (in my opinion). When people begin to make blanket, generalized statements about a group of people, that is nothing but biased, prejudiced, and wrong information. This applies to almost all groups of people, not just police. And since I have the experience of working inside a police department for 13 years, I think I know what I am talking about. I can not, however, address the issue of the big city, east coast police departments. My extent of knowledge about NYPD and other big agencies out in the east is limited to what I see on TV, which of course is very unreliable. Perhaps those people that do live in an area in the east coast are served by a police department with more corrupt cops than usual---I really don't know? But just based on what I do know about police in the United States, making those types of blanket comments about an entire group of people is inappropriate to say the least.
You said: "What the hell
is Echelonm then? " . My answer: I don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps my ignorance is showing, but I have no clue what you are referring to.
"There is also an unwritten code of silence in many police departments, or "honor among thieves.". Where *do* you get this information? You're honestly not relying on the news media, are you? If you have had ANY experience with the news media in your life, you will understand how blatantly corrupt, biased, and wrong the media are these days. Of every incident I have ever been involved in that has made the 6 o'clock news or the papers (and it's quite a few), I have yet to see ONE single news report that was accurate on the details of the event. Just take everything they say with a grain of salt---they are huge propaganda machines and too many people rely on what they say.
"From observance of local cops, at a University: -they don't ticket basketball
fans/players cars, but they do everyone else's". This is exactly the kinds of statement that I am talking about. I don't know what you're referring to, but I can say with a high degree of confidence that you are wrong. There are always two sides to every story, and you do not know what that other side is. I can't begin to tell you how many times I have been doing my job when somebody walks by or drives by and shouts something at me, and they are totally and completely wrong about what they are seeing. If somebody is walking by, I will call them back to me and if they are willing to listen, I will take the time to explain EXACTLY what is going on. You know what happens? The person usually apologizes to me and says that they didn't realize that "whatever" was happening. Police stand out in the public like a sore thumb. The police car, the uniform----it is something that took me a while to get used to when I was a new police officer. Every second of every day, I am being stared at. If I am stopped at a stop light and I watch the cars around me, including the cars that are stopped as well as the cars passing in front of me, they all look over at me. It's just natural for people to stare at the police. My point is, whatever we do, we are being watched. And all of this people with their pre-conceived opinions can very easily jump to the wrong conclusion about what they are seeing. Just as an example, this will not be a great one but it sort of illustrates what I'm talking about. This morning, I had to take the BART train into Oakland. BART is the Bay Area Rapid Transit system---sort of like a modern subway that goes both above and below ground. Anyway, the whole BART system is computerized. The train operators do very little with this system except sit in the operator's area and make sure everything works the way it should. They have manual override buttons just in case of emergency, but for the most part, these trains run themselves completely--including when they pull in the station, where they stop, when the doors open and close, and when they leave. The operator does nothing but sit there---the entire process is automated. Well today, people got on the train when it pulled into the station and there was one black woman running to try and get on before the doors closed. She did not make it, and the doors closed before she got there. The train operator always sticks his head out the window and looks back to make sure nobody is stuck in a door or stuck between the platform and the train before the train pulls away from the station. This black woman shouts up to the operator (who is white) "Open the door! Open the door!". He shakes his head no, and the train pulls away. This regular looking, "mom" type of woman begins yelling for ALL to hear, "Can you believe that? Did you see what just happened?". She walks by me (I am white) and says, "He would have opened the door for you". And then she keeps yelling "Can you believe what that white man did to me?". My point in this whole story is perception. She honestly believes that the white train operator would not open the doors because she was black. When in reality, if she only knew the OTHER side of the story, she would not be saying those things. The train system is automated, he could not have opened the doors for her if he wanted to. Or at least, without causing an emergency shutdown of the system. People see one thing, and their mind jumps to another. Especially with the police because we are so visible, and because of the power that the police have. Studies have shown over and over again what happens when a person gets pulled over. If it is the CEO of a huge multi-million dollar corporation and he is a very powerful man, with lots of people kissing his butt every day, then as he's driving along suddenly there is a red light in behind him pulling him over. All of a sudden, psychologically, that man now goes into "child" mode as if he is the child and the cop is the parent scolding him. This big, important, powerful man now feels stupid, his hands begin shaking from being nervous, and he does and says things he normally would not. People act differently around the police---that's just human nature. And there are LOTS of people who do not like the fact that they have power over them and can tell them that they are wrong. There are LOTS of people like that. And because of that, friction is created and misunderstandings are created. I am NOT discounting things that you have witnessed or observed in your lifetime. I'm not trying to defend every single thing that every single cop does--don't misinterpret me. But I am trying to explain something that many people don't understand. If you are reading this with a prejudiced mind, than all of this is useless and you might as well not read any further. But if you take the time to really see what I am saying, maybe you can see things in a different light. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong---I'm just saying, try to look at things in a different light and try to make the connection with the example that I used. That's all.
"they
SPEED, and faster than the other, civilian speeders ". Yes, youre' right--they do. Technically, they are supposed to do turn on the lights and siren when they speed, because that exempts them from the rules of the road. But when you see police speeding with no lights turned on, it could be a number of things. It could just be that the cop is speeding, and he is wrong. Or, it could be something else. There were MANY times where I would speed somewhere without my lights and siren on---technically, yes, I was violating our department policy and the law as well. But when it comes to the "real world", sometimes the policy and the law are not realistic and you have to bend the rules a little bit. If I am responding to a frightened and scared little girl who is home alone after school, and she is on the phone with 911 because she hears noises downstairs and she is upstairs, I am going to haul ass to get there as quickly as I can. But I am not going to respond with lights and siren and jeopardize her safety by alerting the suspect that the police are coming. There are many, many, many circumstances where this could happen. Sometimes when we show up to a call, people will say "Where were you--it took you long enough to get here". We're damned if we do, damned if we don't I suppose.
" Most cops, (although not all!), are
just Machiavellian assholes who use their position of power to bring themselves above the law." Where is your documentation or evidence to back this claim up? MOST cops are not anything. Except maybe dedicated, hard workers that put up with a lot of crap from people.
"Think about it... if crime was eliminated, cops would have no jobs." There's nothing to think about here. Crime will never be eliminated. As long as humans walk this planet, there will be crime.
"With
reduced crime comes reduced funding. How many of them *actually* want to stop "crime"/"help" people? " What is your point here? That the police are purposely INCREASING crime to have job stability? If that's your point, geez, how can I even respond to such a ridiculous and ignorant statement? And many cops actually want to stop crime and help people? How about this answer: Go to ANY police academy graduation and every single one of those new officers wants to do that. But after they start working the streets and see what reality truly is, those dreams and aspirations go out the window once they begin working with the scum of society. That's why when a police officer has the opportunity to actually help somebody, we bend over backwards and do whatever we can to help them. Don't forget---we have many things stacked against us. All of the laws (penal code, vehicle code, etc) are written for the law violators. Where are the books written for the victims? There aren't any. You can't blame the police officers for that. Blame society, or blame the elected officials, but don't blame the cops. On rape cases, child molest cases, domestic abuse cases, and other sensitive calls like that, I have seen plenty of cops go WAY out of their way to help the person or the family in any way that they possibly can. Your statements are so incredibly off base, it's incredible.
"Primay reasons I dislike cops: -they enforce the word of others, like soldiers using the excuse, "I was
ordered to do it!". So, that's your PRIMARY reason for not liking the police? What would you like the police to do? If they do not enforce the word of others (ie: the law written by our elected representatives), what DO they enforce? Do they enforce whatever they want? Maybe enforce something over here for that person, but not over there for that person. Talk about chaos! Police are human---there is no way to have something like that work. Everybody must follow the same rules, the same laws, so that we're all "on the same page" so to speak.
"they are assholes (refer to above, I guess) you know: harassing skateboarders," Hmmmmm. The cops are assholes because they "harrass" skateboarders. I have "harrassed" many skateboarders in my career. The owners of businesses call the police department to complain that they are skating on the walkway in front of stores, and customers almost get hit by these people. The customers complain to the store, and the store complains to the police. Yeah, that's some serious harrassment going on there. Remember, a police officer can only stop somebody with probable cause. If an officer stops you, you have done something to create probable cause. Perhaps there is a municipal code where you live that prohibits skateboarders from doing whatever--I don't know the laws where you live. But if the police ignore it, and do nothing, do you know what happens??? This is what happens---citizens and business owners show up at the monthly City Council meeting and they complain that the police aren't doing their job, and they're just letting the skateboarders do whatever they want. Then the mayor sends a memo to the Chief, and the Chief sends a memo to patrol reminding us to enforce the municipal codes for skateboarders. I have no idea what kind of harrassing you are referring to, so I can't address it. If it's violating a law, that is not harrassment.
That's all I'll comment on. If your comments to this are nothing but more generalized, blanket, prejudiced statements, then there's nothing more I can say. If you are going to just say that "all cops do..." (whatever) with no evidence or statistics to back up your comment, then I have no reason to respond. I have asked you to please look at this with an open mind. I hope you do this. And one last thing I will add---you do have a point about the skateboarders. I know from personal experience that the police WILL target and stop skateboarders at certain times. This is because, in the town where I work, skateboarders usually have weed or crank on them. But they are not stopped until probable cause has been established. But yes, I do agree somewhat with what you are saying about that topic.
Andy
P.S. I'm sorry for this really long post. But in order for me to answer the questions that were given to me, it had to take this long.
But, remember where BigNasty is coming from. If he lives where I think
he lives, he's getting triaged out of existence and knows it ...
... and is angered by it. Many cities notoriously allow
911 to go completely and totally unanswered in specific areas. They probably relay the
calls to the coroner instead ... big f**king help.
BTW, Disgusted, I always like your posts.
Note: This website is for people who can't trust the police. [This site is by a person who doesn't trust the police. It
is for anyone and everyone who chooses to come here. --steve]
The 36+ kills on this website have a recurring subtheme: the
purposeless, senseless killing, by police, of unarmed, underage kids
not engaged in any criminal activity whatsoever.
The so-called police posting here (thru June 1999) unanimously endorse such
killings by their purposeful but senseless posts.
(http://www.postgazette.com/regionstate/19990703cop3.asp)
aw, gee, another cop reduced to using slingshots and bb-guns ... ain't it a shame ?
"You know, if you were DEA, I would Glock you."
Gee, I think he really Glocked himself that time.
Good luck and stay well.
Rene
(Rene T.A. Lysloff)
Inquiring minds want to know
A bad cop is above all else, a craven coward.
A bad cop is afraid to compete with others as equals because he knows he
can't measure up.
A bad cop is afraid of his own inadequacy, so he wants to murder his
betters.
A bad cop is afraid of the truth, so he wants to murder those who tell
it.
A bad cop is afraid of history, so he wants to murder the past, to wipe
out the knowledge of the degeneracy, cowardice and failure of the Fraternal
Order of Police.
Finally, a bad cop is afraid of the power of educated, informed adults.
Freedom of choice terrifies him... which is why he chooses minor
children as sexual partners. He can't interact with competent adults
in a consensually sexual way. He needs to be able to impose himself
on a helpless victim, be it a prepubescent boy, or a patient in a
mental hospital.
These are the things that a bad cop is, and there's nothing polite or
honest about it.
The only significant difference between todays 'cops' and the
Nazis is: the Nazis, to paraphrase Guiliani, were much more
polite.
"I saw your mommy and your momm's dead, I saw her laying in a pool of
read, I think it's the coolest thing I'll ever see, your dead mommy
laying in front of me"
Cool song eh? [Sure thing. Except it's "pool of RED,"
for the blood. --steve]
Right, don't f**k with the police ... especially if you're
unarmed, under 15, and not engaged in any criminal activity.
The 'police' just love to molest little boys ... with about
45 rounds each.
(I had been given 2 tickets in South Carolina once. The officer was so
nice that I was almost happy to pay those tickets. (Even though I was
hitting 95 mph and not wearing my seatbelt))
I must admit that I think this site is hillarious. The best part of
this site is the guestbook, where several people seem to show off
their collective ignorance by completely ignoring the areas where you
state that you are against the killing of cops wholesale. Obviously
they are looking for an easy target.
Vaya Con Dios
(And please excuse any grammatical/spelling errors)
Groups like the ones you have received comments from will soon be
stamped out just like many other hate groups. [No "hate groups" have posted here, and I'm not going
anywhere. If you think or my ISP will allow my first amendment rights
to be trampled, you're seriously mistaken. --steve] You are a
minority and just because you make a web site and speak freely, does
not mean that people will follow you. [I don't
want people to follow me. I want them to think for themselves.
--steve]
Face it, the police will always be around. You, on the other hand,
will die (preferable sooner than later). [You
first. I insist. --steve] May GOD have mercy on all of
the "cop killers" souls. Only he can give you what you really
deserve. [Good head? --steve]
Pe@ce,
Y
Give the guy a break, TIM. We're talking about human life, wrongfully
done over. Have you seen people die, right in front of you? I'm sure
John has seen more than his share, in a fairly short amount of time.
Tim, you are the most childish person (if that really are a person)
here. I think you should run along and play now.
If I have the correct Mikey Hill, he exited his car armed ...
oooops negative. On the other hand
EVIDENCE that the crime took place. Allright everybody heres a quick
impression on Steve:
WWWWWWAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
PPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
PSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
It's also evident that your life is useless seeing as how all you have to
do in your daily routine is cry and whine about the police on a website.
[Isn't it funny how whenever I insult you with
something, you turn around and try to say the same thing about me? Do you
really look up to me that much, Tim? I can arrange to teach you some of
the finer points of wit if you're really this desperate for material.
--steve]
Ross <homiegroy@hotmail.com>
- Friday, October 22, 1999 at 14:29:25 (MDT)
Heh, I'm kinda back.
Ross <homiegroy@hotmail.com>
- Friday, October 22, 1999 at 14:28:15 (MDT)
R/I/R
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 14:08:45 (MDT)
Bryan: **THANK YOU** I really appreciate your kind words. It gets hard sometimes for me, wondering if I'm the only sane person out here. It was great hearing from you this morning. Take care.....
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 08:13:32 (MDT)
Alec: Just as I thought. You're nothing but a chronic whiner and complainer. You've had some awesome opportunities to get your word out, and not you were just given the opportunity to talk with over 100 police officers in a training class with a question and answer session....and you turned it down. You don't want anything "fixed" or "improved". You just want to hide behind your computer and spew out non-sensical garbage, pretending you have discovered some massive conspiracy and coverup. You're all talk and no action. By the way, how can you continue to refer to your "evidence" with a straight face? Everything that you have written is your OPINION. Opinions are NOT evidence---they are only opinions. Just because you provide references to specific sections of the Constitution, or Bill or Rights, or case decisions, does NOT mean that you are correctly referring to them. I'm finished trying to communicate with you conspiracy nuts. First of all, your opinions and arguments are totally full of crap---they have NO factual basis to them at all. Second of all, you don't want to make things better---you just want to complain and yell at people, pretending that you're some sort of high-paid attorney by using fancy words that the average citizen doesn't know the meaning of, nor do they WANT to know the meaning of. I've been in law enforcement for 13 years and have dealt with attorneys, judges, and courts many times and I have had no problems reading their legal documents. But your ramblings are a complete and total joke---it's nothing more than rambling sentence coming out of the mind of a mentally disturbed person.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 08:11:14 (MDT)
Mr. Destry, I have over the past few months taken the time to read this guest book from time to time since my last posting. I feel that it is high time that some one else besides Retired Injured Cop respond to your nonsensical blatherings that you see fit to post here. You sir, have some obvious problems (most likely mental) and if you dont, which is also possible, leave the United States and go live somewhere else where you wont feel so persecuted. As far as I'm concerened, you sir, are part of the problem.
RIR, keep your chin up, dont let the bastards get you down. You gave the ultimate sacrfice for the job, brother.
Stay Safe
Bryan
USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 03:46:03 (MDT)
Regarding the "mini-novel" that R/I/R refers to, that is what is needed to prove all of the crimes that I am accusing the government officers in this country of. I am sure that, if I had given the "short answer he was looking for," without the "mini-novel," R/I/R would have found an excuse to claim that that "short answer" had "no merit and no basis in fact." As for being "unable to decipher that mini-novel," what I posted there was quite simple and R/I/R knows it, but he is just trying to, once again, confuse and mislead people.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 03:15:55 (MDT)
By the way, you (Alec) never addressed my other question. If you are interested in speaking to a group of police officers about your knowledge of government crimes, conspiracies, coverups, secret agents, fraud/treason, etc, let me know. I will be offline for the next 3 days and will not be on the Guestbook.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 00:53:14 (MDT)
Alec---If you would have answered a direct question with a direct answer the first time, I wouldn't have had to ask you a second time. If you think I, or anybody else for that matter, could have figured out that was your answer from the mini-novel that you wrote a few sections below this one, you've got to be kidding! If you would only make comments and answer questions in the simple manner that you FINALLY chose to (below), you could avoid A LOT of confusion. Who is playing the games?
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 21:19:30 (MDT)
Now, R/I/R is becoming flat out stupid. For R/I/R's education, the so called "meds for medical reasons," the physical violence that the courts commit daily against the people unfortunate enough to be involved with them, and the lie that the "United States is the bastion of the free world and that everyone must do their part," that they protect, all of that is how the courts "poison" you when you don't follow their whims. Obviously, R/I/R could have figured this out from the posting that I made before this one. But, I am certain that he didn't want to do that, for obvious reasons. So, it appears that R/I/R is back to playing the same game of attempting to mislead the people reading this guestbook. Sigh!
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 20:15:38 (MDT)
Alec: You never answered the question regarding your previous statement. You said that the Courts "poison" you when you don't follow their whims. Well? Explain your statement. You know, you should be a politician. You write so much without ever saying anything. I also find it extremely interesting how you say that I twist your words. Hmmm... I haven't twisted a thing that you have said. I just ask you questions about your own statements without changing a thing. Perhaps when you see your own statements thrown back at you, you suddenly realize how ridiculous they are.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:31:09 (MDT)
In this posting, R/I/R's statements are in blue and statements by others are in green. The rest is mine.
In talking about the Courts in our great country, you write: "They assault you physically and attempt to dope you up with poison when you refuse to swallow that lie about the United States, or when they otherwise happen to find you displeasing to their whims." Alec--what are you talking about? There isn't a court in this country that will "poison" you or physically assault you just because you don't "please their whims". What on earth are you talking about? This is exactly why you will never be taken seriously. Even the "bad guys" in jail know that the courts don't "poison" you with dope and "physically assault" you for not "pleasing their whims". The only thing I could think of that you might be talking about here is if a suspect if found to be violent and mentally insane or unstable and is deemed so by a doctor and psychologist. Then, maybe the person will be taken to a "Correctional Medical Facility" (Psychiatric Prison) where they will be given meds for mental disorders. Is that what happened to you? Is that why you think the courts were "poisoning" you? I'm just asking the question--not making any accusations.
To use, Citizen's Target phrase, R/I/R's entire statement here is MacBullshit. This is the epitomy of what I despise about R/I/R. How dare he protect that fraudulent court system of attornment that has reduced our once great country to an invaded and occupied nation controlled by foreign agents! R/I/R has chosen to ignore everything about that fraudulent court system that I posted on my website. R/I/R has also chosen to ignore what I posted to this guestbook about Ira Reiner (former LA County D.A.). And, R/I/R has chosen to ignore that those "meds for mental disorders" are extremely virulent poisons in more ways than one. Does anyone here remember any examples of how people on prozac suddenly, for no reason, just "lose it" and commit violent, and usually fatal, acts? Does anyone here remember instances where those "meds" caused people to become afficted with things like Parkinson's disease (The Merck Manual of Medical Information, Home Edition, ISBN 0-911-910-87-5, page 316 (near the top left corner))? None of these facts suit R/I/R's agenda, so he just ignores them. How convenient! R/I/R is correct about one thing though: most people cannot grasp what I am trying to communicate here and therefore, do not take me seriously, yet. That is because most people have not been enlightened as to what the courts (and police) in this country really are. I am certain that R/I/R fears the time when the people of this country do become enlightened as to what the courts and police in this country really are and is actively working to prevent that from happening. That would certainly explain his postings to this guestbook!
I find it hard to believe that you went to the watch commander and he was not helpful to you. If this is in fact true, then I question the significance of the topic of conversation you brought up to him. I can tell you from personal experience that is somebody comes to me (as a police officer) ranting and raving like a lunatic, throwing things out like "Constitution" and court cases and other things that you mentioned in your post, I will not really listen to what you are saying. I will basically just hear "blah blah blah blah". I'm not saying that to be dis-respectful, but I am saying this so that you know about human nature and more specifically, the police. As you pointed out, the cops don't make the laws or set the policy--they just do what they're told. I have taken people to jail before where I have honestly felt sorry for them because the law was ridiculous and I did not believe in it, but that is not up to me. I am required to do it, and if I am not going to do it then I am in the wrong profession (an example of that is a boyfriend/girlfriend dating since 8th grade, and then when they are seniors in high school, the male turns 18 and the female is 17 for another 3 months---because they are having sex, he is now committing stat. rape of a minor---a felony sex crime! I just do not agree with that--it's too traumatic for everyone involved. But it is not my place to agree or disagree---it is my job to enforce the laws whether I like it or not).
So, anyone brought into those courts is at the complete mercy of a power elite that is unaccountable to them and that can do anything they want to them. And, R/I/R can make his MacBullshit statement about the courts that he did above? I almost want to vomit!
(1) pay outrageous taxes, fill out endless, meaningless and mind deadening government mandated forms, and suffer through endless, meaningless and miserable government regulations.
It isn't enough to attempt to fit into this fraud. You must constantly be pleasing to the whims of the power elite or the consequences begin with ostracism and rapidly get worse from there.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 13:36:52 (MDT)
Citizen--No, what you mean is, I didn't agree with every word you wrote. And you just can't handle somebody not agreeing with you. One of these days, if for no longer than just a brief moment, open your mind and see what happens. You might surprise yourself.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 10:45:56 (MDT)
R/I/R
Citizen_Target <kissmyass@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 02:51:44 (MDT)
Citizen: Here is a copy/paste of some words that I wrote several months ago. As I have already said, you have chosen to put words in mouth by stating that I support and backup the bad cops. Why you are so completely misguided, I don't know. But this is what I clearly wrote to you several months ago:
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 00:32:06 (MDT)
No alleged "target", posting here since May 1999, has made any more than passing reference to the substance of their specific complaints. Ignorance and apathy; they don't know and they don't care ...they just live to complain about a group of heroes that put their lives on the line every day-something that they themselves would never be qualified or willing to perform.
Unacceptable.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 00:23:19 (MDT)
Keep up the good work, Steve.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 23:51:07 (MDT)
I forgot, Steve, I realized I was really generally in my final
whiny message. I wanted to be sure to say that I don't have
any gripe with you, and while I haven't read every single line
of this guestbook, everything I've read from you has been balanced
and impressively calm. I'm glad that somebody had the nerve
to put up a website about police killing unarmed people, but
I hope you won't feel insulted if I say that I'd hate to see
an obviously bright guy like you fuck up his life by taking it
to the extreme... but you gotta do what you gotta do. Good luck
to you man, and please give some thought to sitting down with
the cops and trying to straighten some of this out. I know
you feel like it's the right thing to do now, but five years
from now, after you've gone through all kinds of bullshit, you may
wish you had not poked the cops so hard... anyways, thanks
for the website, and good luck to you.
rdh
Robert Holder
USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 20:28:15 (MDT)
Updated message for Steve: Steve, oops. My message to you had some wrong info in it. When I post a message to this Guestbook, I usually open 2 web pages---one web page with the Guestbook postings on it, and another web page with the section where you can write in your comments. That way, as I write my comments I can click over to the Guestbook window to read what was written so I can keep track of what I'm writing. Well, I didn't do it this time and it came back to bite me. I was doing it strictly from memory, which was a mistake. You did not say that your information was gathered through the illegal use of a DMV computer. You said that it was from writing to the DMV. My apologies---I misquoted what you said totally by accident. For some reason, I was thinking you had said something else. Anyway, my offer still stands if you would like to e-mail me, and I will explain to you how somebody's address, etc, is obtained with ease.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 20:13:08 (MDT)
Citizen Target: I guess I must have pushed one of your buttons, eh? Once again, you have chosen to put words into my mouth that were never spoken. I have NEVER defended any of the officers listed on the "copkiller" web page. I barely know anything about them, so why on earth would I defend them? As you continue to hear what you want to hear, you again have chosen to ignore my words where I said that there are bad cops out there, and there will always be bad cops out there. Just because you can point out some cases where the cops were wrong does not have anything to do with the points I have raised. If there are one or two particular police shooting incidents that you feel strongly about and would like to discuss, I would be happy to do that. I'm not going to go through and disect each and every case that you brought up. Why should I? It hasn't been a topic of mine at all. Have you read anything I've written? Apparently not. You may have seen the words I have written, but you obviously have not understood what was being said. No wonder you have had 26 years of trouble---look at how you approach things. Whether you realize this or not, you sir have a very closed mind. You also have an extremely prejudiced mind, as evidenced by your recent postings. Again, why you chose to post the names of people that have been involved in deadly police encounters is beyond me. If you were posting them as general comments to people, then fine. But you are obviously posting them for my benefit. I must ask why? Since I haven't talked about these cases at all, nor have I defended the officers in these incidents, I must wonder why you have done this. Maybe you can't handle what I'm saying because you know it's the truth. And as soon as you start hearing the truth and it doesn't fit your agenda, you go off on a tirade like a little spoiled brat saying "yeah, well what about this? and this? and this one here? and look at this one? and this one?!!!!" Come on dude, grow up a little bit and discuss your points with some civility. And I will say this one more time: stop putting words into my mouth. Why you have chosen to say that "R/I/R defends...(whatever)" is absolute garbage and it is wrong. You are making things up, again to benefit your agenda.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 20:05:35 (MDT)
Message for Steve (website owner): Steve--I'm jumping into the middle of a conversation that I don't know anything about, so I might have my information wrong. I'm only going on what you wrote below in response to "Future SJ Cop". But you said that your number is unlisted and the only way to get it is through the illegal use of DMV computers. Just so you know, that's not entirelyl true. I can get FULL information on ANYBODY right now, totally legally, without using any police sources at all. I will not post this information on the web page, but I would be happy to tell you about it in an e-mail. The e-mail address that I have listed here is real. If you would like to know how they obtained your address and phone number, I will tell you. But it was not through any illegal sources. 5 years ago---yeah, I would probably agree with you that it was obtained illegally. But today? No way. I will explain if you would like to know---just drop me a line.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 19:30:07 (MDT)
Well R/I, I guess the game is up. They've got us figured out.
Might as well come clean.
See, R/I is the Devil Incarnate. He's actually Satan himself,
sent to earth to kill innocent people. You guys are right.
That's why cops take the job. Every last one of them (well,
occassional one or two good ones slip by) becomes a cop to kill
people, rape their children and beat up old people.
It's not just the cops either. Every government employee is
in on it. And it's not just America, it's every industrialized
nation in the world. We call it the corporate, government and
law enforcement triad.
So who am I? I'm the reincarnation of Benedict Arnold, born
to sell my fellow humans down the river. And my website? All
that idealistic stuff? It's just a front. I don't really want
to try to do what I can for the people around me to try to leave
something better behind in the best way I know how. And that
wouldn't be good enough anyway, would it? Because there's always
*somebody* out there who will be able to explain how I'm really
the Devil, whatever I do or say. If it wasn't you, it'd be
a bible-thumping republican, or the head of the community covenants
committee or the anti-abortionists or the pro-abortionist-- ah,
the future of America! Everybody hates everybody! Hooray!
So now you guys can carve another pair of names in your enemies
list. But first you've got bigger fish to fry, right? You've
got to overthrow the government and execute all the cops first.
Angry as hell, and 100% sure that you are absolutely in the
right, and anybody who doesn't stand up and salute everything
you say is absolutely in the wrong. Well boys, good luck with
your revolution. Good luck with the revenge business. Sorry I
didn't just drop my life and throw myself on the fire for your cause.
You're right--I'm gutless, immoral, brainless, worthless--a
real cancer on society.
Ok, that's enough sarcasm. All the McBullshit stuff was pretty
annoying. I sincerely wish you guys luck as far as reforming
the police goes. As far as you or anybody taking the law into
their own hands and executing cops goes, I don't wish you any
luck there. I'm just sick of the fucking attitude here. As
I've said before, you guys seem to have researched this and have
the benefit of personal experience, but you are SO shrill and
hysterical... and you are not trying to convince the other
side. You're just trying to berate people. I meant what I
said about you guys playing a valuable role in free democracy,
but this thing where anybody who doesn't agree with you is
the devil... i've had plenty thanks.
and citizen, you did make a real impression on me with your
exposition on the cases you described today. if a tenth of it's
true, the police are in serious shape. from now
on, i'm not going to assume so much good about the police. but
you have a lot--a LOT--to learn about convincing people.
Robert Holder
USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 19:21:08 (MDT)
hey i read some of the old entries and noticed someone found out the
adress of Steve Pardon...well to tell anyone who is not really computer
litterate: you can find out that info for free and legaly...you just have
to know where to look, [Since I'm unlisted, the only
legal way to do it is to write the DMV and request the info.
--steve] anyway what really bothers me is this.... 1)he made a
disturbing comment on his prior website about the Columbine shooting
[It's a concurrent site, not a prior one. The comment
I made was, in a nutshell, "fuck Columbine." And I stand by that. If you
want to know why, wait for me to write the page. --steve]
FUTURE SAN JOSE POLICE OFFICER
SAN JOSE, ca USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 18:25:32 (MDT)
I had been testifying in court for 10 years when the 'blue' came to kill me. I can't prove the 'blue' tried to kill me ... no witnesses ... convenient.
Citizen_Target <kissmyass@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 18:01:13 (MDT)
You'll notice the common denominator in the first twelve: All victims unarmed ... save one ... all, save two involved in no crime whatsoever. Many shot in the back, many simply executed, all ... save one ... simply murdered.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 17:54:15 (MDT)
An even dozen.
Oct 1994 New Orleans, LA.
... is shot to death in front of her home by Paul Hardy,
acting on orders of officer Len(name deleted by AF),
who used his authority as a police officer to arrange
the killing. Groves had filed a brutality complaint
the day before, accusing Davis of pistol-whipping a
teenager. U.S. Justice Department attorney Mike McMahon
says "That was not an isolated example of murderous
intent by Davis." The jury gives Davis the death penalty
after only 30 minutes of deliberation. Davis and eight
other officers are also accused of accepting protection
money for a stash of 130 kilograms of cocaine in a
New Orleans warehouse.
A definite EDP, Kim was shot for being willing to testify against a police officer. The officers superior police training no doubt helped him hire a killer; but his split second timing was a tad off and he didn't kill the killer in time.
Citizen_Target <kissmyass@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 17:40:01 (MDT)
R/I/R has in nearly half a year of posting produced nothing ... I repeat ... nothing ... to substantiate ANY of his claims.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 17:24:24 (MDT)
Here's your chance, R/I/R ... these are from your neck of the woods ...
where the cops are true blue, noble to the core, and the sheep are ...
no doubt ... nervous.
William Hankston, 28, San Fransisco, was killed
by a single bullet from the gun of narcotics officer
Jessie Washington on a playground in the Ingleside
area of town.the two detectives did not identify
themselves and drew their guns. Hanks companion said they thought
the men were from a gang and began to run. Hankston,
who was unarmed, was riding a bicycle away from the
scene when a single shot rang out and hit Hankston
in the back of the head. No drugs found, no weapons found.
O do tell us how these officers saved themselves from death and serious
bodily harm in a split second due to their marvelous police training ? O
do tell us how these officers were able to identify these suspects as
dangerous EDPs ?
1 Nov 1995 San Francisco, CA.
... shot to death by officer John(name deleted by AF),
minutes after being released from a search
in which no drugs or guns were found. H is
suspended in Oct 1996 for use of excessive
force at a New Year's Eve AIDS benefit raid.
He has previously been named in six brutality suits.
It's your neck of the woods, R/I/R ... o do tell.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 16:54:23 (MDT)
I know what your thinking, R/I/R, can he find all 18 EDPs or only nine. You just have to ask yourself; do you feel lucky ?
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 16:07:29 (MDT)
Joseph Gould: Shot to death
30 Jul 1995 Chicago, IL.
a homeless newspaper vendor, is shot to death by
off duty officer Gregory Becker, who
flees the scene of the incident. Becker is suspended
and later resigns. He is convicted of involuntary
manslaughter, official misconduct, and armed violence
in May 1997.
Yep, gotta watch those homeless, street vendor EDPs ... gotta shoot em while they reach in their pockets for change.
Split second exemplary police training tipped Becker off that he better hot-foot it and try not to get caught. O well, apparently Becker failed the 'field training' part of the course ... he did get caught.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 16:00:23 (MDT)
Eight (8) so far, from Steve's list. Maybe R/I/R has a point
about all these EDPs. Let's check out Number Nine.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 15:51:04 (MDT)
Here's my favorite:
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 15:42:46 (MDT)
Let's save some time. R/I/R isn't capable of doing this; but most 5th graders know how to search the current page (THIS PAGE, MacMorons) with their browsers.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 15:35:36 (MDT)
R/I/R is the creme de la creme of police posting in Stevie's guest book.
Let's take a look at the 36+ kills he defends. Let's take a closer look at what he refuses to
see:
Malibu, CA. Donald P. Scott and his wife are woken by
knocking at the door of their historic ranch house.
Scott's wife approaches the door as 31 agents of
the Sheriff's Dept, DEA, Park Service, and Border
Patrol smash it in. Scott responds to his wife's
scream with revolver in hand. He dies after he is
shot three times in the upper torso by deputy
(name deleted by AF) because he does not drop his
gun fast enough. Nothing illegal is found.
Ventura County District Attorney Michael Bradbury
finds that "primary purpose of the raid was a land
grab by the Sheriff's Department" under federal
asset-forfeiture laws, and that a sheriff's deputy
had lied to obtain the search warrant. Bradbury
declines to prosecute agents.
Poway, CA. Donald Carlson is shot by black-clad DEA
agents in a botched midnight drug raid. Carlson,
hearing the door burst in, calls 911 to report a
break-in, then grabs a pistol he keeps for self-defense.
He drops the pistol after the first shot by agents,
who then shoot him two more times on the floor.
No drugs are found. Carlson spends two months in
intensive care, and sustains permanent damage to
his respiratory system, arm and shoulder. It is
later confirmed the agents could clearly see there
was nothing in Carlson's garage, two hours before
the raid, where a ton of marijuana was allegedly
stored.
Case 1: didn't drop his gun fast enough ... definitely an EDP ... thank
god for that special training and split second thinking or ole crazy,
whacko Donald Scott may have had an extra split second to realize what
was happening (a surprise, night-time raid); survived; and ruined everything.
What an asshole that Donald Scott was; he should have divined the raid
and surrendered the day before ... for what ... not breaking the law ?
Definitely an EDP.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 15:19:53 (MDT)
I would like to quote two sentences from USA TODAY. This happened Virginia Beach Virginia. "Officer Charles W. Rosen has resigned amid allegations that he and other officers beat a man who led police on a car chase into neighboring Norfolk" His resignation proofs he is guilty. {my words}
"The victim { whose name I shall not reveal} stated officers from both Norfolk and Virginia Beach beat him with batons, stomped on him and let a police dog bite while he was handcuffed and on the ground."
Need I say more?
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora, Co USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 14:54:09 (MDT)
RDH:
Civilian_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 14:51:22 (MDT)
R/I/R wrote:
There are always 2 sides to every story, and you are only interested in one side---yours. Like I said, that's okay if that's your thing.
My sentiments exactly. There is the police side. There is the innocent civilian side. As you have so eloquently stated, the innocent civilian side doesn't count in your world of blue.
But it ain't mine....
The 36+ kills are yours. Your world isn't good enough.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 14:45:36 (MDT)
Citizen Target: You wrote, "Like leaving out mention of Joe Trimboli and only seeing 'old Serpico' ?" Just because I don't respond to EVERY SINGLE WORD that you write doesn't mean you can take that to mean something. I don't intend on responding to every little thing that you write. Most importantly, I'm only going to respond to the names and things that I know about. I have no idea who Joe Trimboli is--that's why I didn't mention his name. But Serpico is a pretty famous guy, and most people know who he is. So take your conspiracy theories about me and file them away for somebody else. You obviously have no intentions of EVER having a discussion with someone who has different opinions than you. And that's okay with me---at least now I know that you are not interested in discussions. You are simply interested in complaining, whining, attacking, moaning and groaning, and generally just being negative about everything. That's your right----go for it. I thought maybe you would want to discuss things from someone who has been on the "inside". I've been totally open and honest in everything I have written. But since it doesn't fit your prejudiced opinions, you don't want to hear it. You just want people to say "Yeah dude. Fuck the cops!" and "Right on man! You tell 'em!". Well, leave me out of that crap. It's too bad you're not willing to discuss things and that instead, you have chosen to just complain, complain, complain. There are always 2 sides to every story, and you are only interested in one side---yours. Like I said, that's okay if that's your thing. But it ain't mine....
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 12:48:46 (MDT)
Citizen Target: Whatever you have been going through for 26 years has obviously created such a huge bias and prejudice in you that your mind is so closed, you decisions pre-made, and there simply is no talking to you at all unless someone agrees with every word you say. I feel sorry for you--you've had a rough life for whatever reason, and it's none of my business. But I tried talking with you, and unfortunately you took off in the direction that I kinda figured you would. I used the McDonald's example on purpose---to see if you would use a McDonald's employee as a comparison to cops--and you did. You did exactly what I thought you would do, so you fell right into the trap that I laid for you. Make no mistake--the example I gave still stands to describe my thoughts. However, once again you took the words of someone and twisted them around to fit your own personal agenda. And yes--you do have a personal agenda. And a strong one at that, because of whatever has happened to you personally over the last 26 years. As I said, it sounds like whatever has happened to you must be pretty bad. But it really is a shame that your mind is so closed to the point that you're not even willing to hear the other side of the discussion. I now know that it doesn't matter what anybody in law enforcement has to say. Anybody from law enforcement that says ANYTHING to your disliking will instantly be dismissed because of how closed your mind is and how much your mind is made up. 26 years is a long time to feel this way my friend. Maybe it's time to close the doors on the past and try to make the future better for others.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 11:23:54 (MDT)
To Alec: I need to comment on a few things that you wrote recently. In your most recent posting in your response to Robert Holder, you wrote this: "
Now, where does that say anything about what I will or won't do? Where is the statement "for whatever
reason" in what I wrote there?" In this comment, you were talking about a previous comment that you wrote to me where you said, "Is R/I/R trying to say that
Ira Reiner is above the law? In that case, Ira Reiner and all who protect him, including R/I/R, can legally be
gunned down wherever they might be found."
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 11:07:35 (MDT)
RDH:
But some people tend to take somebody's words and either twist
them around or plop them down in the middle of something
irrelevant just to make it fit their own personal agenda.
Like leaving out mention of Joe Trimboli and only seeing 'old Serpico' ?
The point was: nothing has changed' But that doesn't fit R/I/Rs personal agenda, does it ?
Serpico simply got published, recognized, and not killed. Joe Trimboli, the same.
All the rest are dead; unknown, unrecognized. But that doesn't fit R/I/Rs
personal agenda either.
This guy obviously has a problem with whatever is going on in the store,
but he's talking to the wrong guy, because you, the cash register guy,
don't give a shit about anything that this guy is telling you.
I quit talking to police when R/I/R was 7 years old. I quit posting to
R/I/R following *HIS RESPONSE*, *HIS CREDO*, which will always merit repeating:
... ... if approached by a person carrying on about "case law", the Constitution,
court decisions, blah blah blah. Here it is, plain and simple: You are looked at as a whacko.
That's martial law. That presumptive and preemptive guilt. It's dictatorial
and in no way related to the fabric of society ... which is NOT blue, BTW.
cops have been dirty in the past, there are dirty cops now, and there will be dirty cops in the future
MacTrue.
when it does happen, it gets lots of media attention and the officers are
terminated, arrested, and convicted ...
MacBullshit.
... ... if approached by a person carrying on about "case law", the Constitution,
court decisions, blah blah blah. Here it is, plain and simple: You are looked at as a whacko.
MacBullshit ... pure and simple ... MacBullshit from the MacBullshit team. They need
to be replaced ... MacSoon and MacQuick.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 11:07:27 (MDT)
Hey, Citizen Target, slow down! Don't assume that I meant I didn't
believe the case was true. I just wanted to know how an average
guy like me goes about looking into this kind of thing. The
help you provided was great, but I could have passed on the sarcasm.
So relax! I'm not for or against you. I understand that there
are people like you with strong feelings about this issue one
way, and then there are people like R/I with strong feelings the
other way. I don't have strong feelings about this yet because
I do not feel I know the basic facts, especially regarding how
widespread this is. But you read that thing I wrote with some
expectations and assumptions about where I'm coming from that
aren't right. I'm not arguing either side here, I just wanted
more info. Remember, as the "watchdog" or however you see
your role, you need to make this info palatable to the average
guy... unless you just want to preach to the choir. So ease
up a little, ok?
Alec, come on now. Cut the crap. What was the point of writing
a paragraph that says that somebody who is participating on this
guestbook can legally be killed? It was an intimidation tactic
and you know it.
You guys are not listening to me. The average guy is not going
to listen to you for two seconds if you keep coming across as
so stiff and hostile to any opposition. If you want to just
bitch and moan to each other, then I'm in the wrong here, and
I'll stop bothering you. But if you want to actually do something
to bring this issue further into the forefront of the consciousness
of AVERAGE citizens, you're going to have to start taking your
audience into consideration.
I don't share your perspective on this issue, but I am interested
in seeing this issue discussed more in the mainstream. That's
why I'm here, not to get into arguments about it. I think you
guys have something important to say, and I'm interested. Maybe
I'm wrong. Maybe your wrong. But the discussion itself is
important. Your arguments are too emotionally driven, and to
convince people they need to me calmer, that's all I'm saying.
I'm not saying your emotions are wrong. I'm just saying that
to convince most people, the *arguments* need to be calmer.
rdh
Robert Holder
USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 07:38:33 (MDT)
Citizen Target: Regarding my comment that I wrote quite some time ago now, and that has been posted and commented on at least 10 times already (the "blah blah blah" comment), let me just clarify something here. And please, try to calm down a little bit and put things into perspective.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 03:10:05 (MDT)
To: Robert Holder.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 01:11:19 (MDT)
Robert Holder
Citizen Target, I was scrolling through some of the older comments,
and came across the thing you copied from a newsgroup about a guy
who went down for 5 years for resisting arrest and injuring officers.
can you provide a case number or an approximate range of dates when
this happened and the precinct or at least city where this occurred?
I can, but I will not, and I need not.
As this story is horrifying in the extreme, you need to be able to
substantiate it so that it can be verified.
Horrifying in the extreme ? I consider what happened to the 36+ individuals
on Steve's page far more horrifying. Why don't you ? The 36+ on Steve's
page are dead. The guy who got 5 years is just inconvenienced and
probably living under an overpass somewhere. Why can't you see that ?
... ... if approached by a person carrying on about "case law",
the Constitution, court decisions, blah blah blah.
Here it is, plain and simple: You are looked at as a whacko.
The above is the police response to the substantiation you request.
Do a 'find' against this page, using your browser, and look for the
names Donald Scott and Donald Carlson.
Or what about other similiar cases?
What would be the point ?
One case in one law library will lead you to hundreds of other similar
cases. What would be the point ? Donald Scott and Donald Carlson are
world famous cases, for example. Your friend, R/I/R, insists these cases never happened
... after all, he argues with his usual blanket statement,
the D.A. never prosecuted the case (or the Feds
involved, for that matter).
You suggested looking in the law library, but holy
cow!
All the cases I've listed and discussed can easily be found
in any law library from the information already provided.
You're talking about thousands of thick books to search through.
There are thousands of thick cuts of meat in a supermarket, too,
and they're identified, classified, and organized so you can find them ...
or you can just ask a clerk ... as in 'law clerk' or 'law librarian'.
Can you cite some (say ten) specific cases? This would be a really
useful thing to this debate if you could throw up a webpage
Why should I? There are thousands of web pages under 'law' that can
be found using http://www.yahoo.com.
or get
steve to put it up for you citing some cases like this,
Steve has already done that and provided sources.
so that
people interested in this problem can begin to have some concrete
cases to discuss.
People truly interested use Steve's links and
cross check them in any law library. I've done that. Why haven't you ?
The police posting here haven't checked Steve's links
... that would make them 'whackos'.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 00:07:13 (MDT)
ok, i just read the bit where this Alec guy says the R/I can
legally be killed for whatever reason, and this blows your
credibility with me man. i'm trying not to blow this out of
proportion, and be an asshole about it, but goddamn...
dood, don't threaten anybody's life, or even imply it, if you
are not ready to back it up and not ready to have them come
after you. that's like a basic law of nature. if you show
your teeth, be ready to get down. you have obviously spent a
lot of time and energy on this perspective of yours, and i
think that has value to the rest of us, but if you want us
or anybody to take you seriously, you should cut that shit out,
right?
i think it would show a lot of class if you were to make a
little good faith effort and extend the olive branch here to
the guy... you don't have to agree with him, but you talked about
the guy getting *killed* for fuck's sake. i'm really hoping
you're big enough to explain that you made those remarks in
the heat of the moment or something...
Robert Holder
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 18:27:15 (MDT)
Citizen Target, I was scrolling through some of the older comments,
and came across the thing you copied from a newsgroup about
a guy who went down for 5 years for resisting arrest and
injuring officers. can you provide a case number or an
approximate range of dates when this happened and the precinct
or at least city where this occurred? As this story is
horrifying in the extreme, you need to be able to substantiate
it so that it can be verified. Or what about other similiar
cases? You suggested looking in the law library, but holy
cow! You're talking about thousands of thick books to search
through. Can you cite some (say ten) specific cases? This would
be a really useful thing to this debate if you could throw
up a webpage or get steve to put it up for you citing some
cases like this, so that people interested in this problem
can begin to have some concrete cases to discuss.
thanks,
rdh
Robert Holder <bedlam@crystalnight.com>
Lakewood, CO USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 18:14:39 (MDT)
Hey, thanks for the explanation of your site Alec. Now, don't
get mad at me, but to be honest, I have to admit to some skepticism
about conspiracy stuff. The problem, from where I stand, is that
since it's all secret and unseen, even if you're right, it's very
hard to grapple with it. Personally, I think you are probably
right in the sense that there are almost certainly some hidden
power agreements that effect how the world is run--there always
have been. Throughout history, it was the backdoor deals that
really determined how the world worked, at least after the
straight power stuff used before greek civilization. So, yeah,
sure there are probably things like you describe. I would wager
that if you could find out the real truth though, it would be
something even weirder and more far-reaching that even you
suspect.
So the way I run strategy in my head regarding these sorts of
things is to remember the inventors and visionaries of history.
Look at the Wright brothers, or Edison or Da Vinci. No matter
what these larger tidal forces you are talking about do, they
cannot stop free thought. That is the one thing they can tax
or jail or destroy. Ideas are totally impervious, in the long
run, to coercion of any kind. I think what happened with me
was that a long time ago, I realized I would never be able to
beat the power structure at it's own game. So what I figured
I would do would be to out-innovate them. Think up something
entirely new that falls outside of their game. I know you
think that their game encompasses everything, but my belief is
that *nothing* encompasses all of America. Call it faith, or
blind stupidity, but that's how I see it, and it works for me.
This explains why I keep returning to this "calm down and communicate"
refrain here. If you get stuck in a cage with a cougar, and you
immediately get ready to kill or be killed, the cougar will see
this, since that is pretty much 100% of what a cougar is all
about, and you'll get killed. But if you stay calm, sit down,
be quiet and don't look that cougar in the eye, so long as there
are plenty of steaks to throw to it, you've at least got a
chance of not getting eaten. And if you're brave, and patient,
you may actually turn that cougar into your friend. I mean,
that's how we domesticated animals. Look at the dog. Have
you ever been really bitten by a dog? A dog almost took my
right index finger off once, bit right through to the bone. We
think of dogs as pets, warm and fuzzy critters, but it wasn't
always that way. Now, through patience and maintaining this
reciprocally beneficial relationship, we've actually tamed
down the very nature of the dog. Read some Lao Tzu, the Tao Te
Ching, that's kinda what I'm talking about. You'll never tame
the thing down by fighting with it. It may take more than your
lifetime, but patience and benevolent faith (or what the religions
call "love") in your cellmate is the only way to win. Anything
else, especially anything based on anger ALWAYS results in
more fighting and destruction and bitterness that carries from
father to son.
I know, I sound like a goddamn lovehippy. But after 33 years,
it's what I've come to believe. I used to be exactly the
opposite. And I realize that some foes, this doesn't work with.
Hitler is everybody's favorite example. You don't have to be a
professional historian to see that here's a motherfucker who
is NOT going to be tamed down. I'm not trying to lay down a
universal truth or anything, just trying to point out a different
perspective that I have found works.
Think about Steve for a second. What is he really trying to
accomplish with this website? Is he hoping to encourage people
all over to kill cops? That's probably what the cops think.
But I don't think so. If steve was really serious about killing
cops, he would not have made himself such an obvious target, at
least that's what I think. I think he is *very* serious about
one thing though--the ideas of free speech. My guess is that
Steve is very frustrated by what he sees as a situation where
the system is failing is a very serious way, and people are
not getting due process. And so he has put up these pages to
bring up that subject. I mean, sometimes I feel exactly the
same way. I read about somebody getting shot 40 times or whatever
and I think, "Fuck, am I the only guy who's bothered by this?!"
So I think that is what Steve really hopes to accomplish: to
stick this issue in everybody's faces, and FORCE them to think
about it, and that is the very essence of free democracy. He
seems to think that the best way to do that is with this
extremely inflammatory rhetoric, and it's pretty clear that he
enjoys pissing off the cops. Me, I think I'd feel safer pissing
off a biker or a big, tough black guy before I'd want to piss
off the cops. But it's his life.
But what this problem boils down to is that we have two goals
that seem to everybody to be mutually exclusive. On the one
hand, the cops say they don't want to get shot. If I was a cop,
I wouldn't want to get shot either. Now, maybe that's why all
these citizens get shot, and maybe not. It's an obvious fact
that there is corruption in law enforcement. We read about it
every day. But I don't think that is why steve is getting hassled.
I think it's that there's these guys who happen to be cops seeing
this copkiller website and thinking, "holy shit!" I mean, what
percentage of cops are corrupt? You guys seem to think it's like
80% or higher. My personal guess, based on my observations of
human nature, is more like 10% or less. So that's a point of
contention.
So on the one hand, we've got the cop argument that it's a
dangerous world, and unfortunately, sometimes innocent people
will get shot. On the other hand, we have the argument of
Steve and his people, which is that the cops are supposed to be
public servants, and they should not fucking be shooting innocent
people. On the face of it, these two goals are mutally exclusive.
You can satisfy one, but not both. The problem is, this is
not a perfect world, and because there are situations where the
only witness to a shooting like this is the cop, we taxpayers
can never really know for sure if it went down like he said it
did. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I know we won't get it
by swapping insults and keeping the lines of communication
closed.
If you guys *really* *truly* believe that cops are not humans
but monsters, then you will never have any degree of success
in stopping this thing that you see as an injustice. You can't
*force* the cops to do anything they don't want to do. The
only way to change their behaviour is to *convince THEM* that
you have a good idea. Same goes for corporate america and these
rich people you're talking about. Do you think anybody listened
to the Wright brothers before their airplane got off the ground?
Fuck no! But when they *did* get off the ground, they had the
world beating down their door.
As to R/I, I think you guys have really missed the point here.
What has been the general cop reaction to this website? Mostly,
they seem to think you guys are scum, and should be locked up.
But here's a cop who is actually taking the time (and taking
some heat from you) to talk about this thing, and at least
make an attempt to communicate with you. Maybe he didn't say
every little thing the way you'd like, but jesus! Here's your
chance to explain to a guy who used to be a cop where you are
coming from, and why you are so upset. I've talked to this guy,
and there's a chance that he will in the future be leading
some training seminars in the Bay Area, and you guys have a
golden opportunity to actually make a difference here. So
my advice to you guys is to lighten up a little bit, and think
about what your objectives are. Not the pie-in-the-sky "let's
kill every cop that lives" bullshit that you couldn't acheive
if you tried and would gain shitloads of mortal enemies if you did,
but rather, "how can we steer the ship in a better direction."
alright, that's my soapbox time for today.
rdh
Robert Holder <bedlam@crystalnight.com>
Lakewood, CO USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 09:19:50 (MDT)
To Citizen Target: I'm really sorry for the 26 years of bad experiences you have had with law enforcement and the judicial process. While I still don't fully understand what happened, that's okay and I understand that you are very upset about all of this and I'm sure you have every right to be.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 23:25:07 (MDT)
To: Robert Holder.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 22:05:16 (MDT)
Alec, I look at your website. The information is very dense,
and is difficult for me to understand, however, the basic
message that I got was that there are some powers at work
in America that have wrested control of the country from the
average citizen and made a joke of our political and economic
systems, and you (or John Nelson, I'm a little confused there
too) think that these system should be overthrown and replaced
with... something else, I guess.
My first thought about this is that it seems you are way
overestimating the competency of these dark, invisible
forces. Having worked for the USGS and for a number of large
corporations, I can assure you that the guys in the higher
levels of management are in now way "masterminds". There is
as much stupidity in these organizations as there is in any
other arena of human activity. I agree that our society,
culture, and government have all become confused and screwed
up, but I feel that you are overestimating these conspiratorial
forces. Sure there are groups of people trying to get control
of things like you describe, but my personal guess is that they
spend as much time struggling with their own inertia, inner
stupidities, and the chaos they generate as they do actually
"controlling" anything.
But my main misgiving about what I read is that it's didn't
appear to be focused on *building* something better. It
seemed to be focused mostly on *destroying* something. Well,
nature requires that sort of thing too, so I've got nothing
against you. Good luck to you, and happy hunting. But my
feeling is that my life is short, and I want to devote my time
to *creating* something that I can believe in, and *avoid* these
other bad things. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just
saying that that perspective is not for me.
Here's my stuff on the web:
The Dreamland Project Maybe I'm naive and all that, but
that's how I'm going to spend my energies.
gotta run, hasta later -- rdh
Robert Holder <bedlam@crystalnight.com>
Lakewood, CO USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 10:45:12 (MDT)
Alec: I'm in agreement with you about quite a few things.
Number one, the criminal justice system in this country does not
provide much, if any, justice. The number of cases where
someone charged with a felony drug offense pleas out is, if
my memory is right, about 80%. This means that for 80% of
these people, they never get a fair trial by a jury of their
peers--they are tried by the DA. This is not the way the
system was originally set up.
Civil asset forfeiture is also a very serious abrogation of
our civil rights. This is such a serious problem that I
encourage all of you to look up "civil asset forfeiture" on
yahoo and learn more about it.
the thing that has me a little confused here is that in my
private correspondence with R/I, he has expressed concern
for these sorts of problems in our government. He is not
as cynical about America as I am, but he is concerned about
these things, and it became clear to me right away that he
wasn't just agreeing with me to get me to shut up about it,
he really does think about these things, and is concerned
about our government too. He isn't just blindly accepting
the idea that America is number one, love it or leave it, and
all that shit. Don't get misled by what you're reading here:
this website talks about killing cops. So you've got to
expect that there are going to be cops and ex-cops who are
going to take that very seriously. so you've got to understand
that because this discussion is taking place here in this
context, the discussion is going to cause everybody's
emotions to get skewed. I've never met R/I, and I've never
met you--I've only read some stuff that you guys wrote. And
it strikes me that you guys have some things in common in
terms of being concerned about the government. It makes me
sad that you guys are struggling with each other, because
you could do a lot more good for America by working together.
I think I suggested to Steve, the guy who runs copkiller, that
he might think about toning down the message here a little.
I'm in total agreement that some of these incidents where
the cops have shot unarmed people warrant independent investigation,
and I agree that there seems to be evidence that there have
been and continue to be cases where the police are out of
control. But the fact is, there is going to be a government
and there's going to be police. In all my interactions with
the police, and I've had quite a few, I have found that so
long as I remained polite and obeyed their commands, I didn't
have any more trouble with them than I expected.
On thing I want to tell you Alec, that I wonder whether you've
realized, is that the police are trained and inclined to
look for people who seem angry and disruptive and get them
under control.
Now, don't misunderstand me here. I'm not saying that's the
right or wrong way. But I am saying that cops see that as
an important part of their job. Think about what the word
"arrest" means. It means to bring something to a stop, like
in "cardiac arrest". So the police see themselves primarily
finding things that are dangerous to society and bringing those
things to a stop. at least, that's my opinion.
So here is what I'm trying to tell you, and the other people
here. When you come across as angry and wild, it pushes
buttons in the cop's head saying, "This guy is a hazard! Get
him under control." and this may explain some of the
resistance you are getting to your ideas. It may not be
the case that the person is so much against your ideas as
they are getting "vibes" off of you from what you wrote, that
make them think you are a hazard. Again, I don't care if that's
how it should be or not. But if you want to convince people
you are right, you need to take these kinds of things into
consideration. I mean, if you could convince an average
citizen, or you could convince a cop or former cop to your
perspective, who would you rather convince? I would rather
convince the cop, because they have been involved in that
"other" side of the whole equation, and so if I can convince
them, they can do a lot more good than if I just convince
some average guy. This is also what I was hoping to get
across to Steve. Here he has attracted considerable attention
to himself and his beliefs. Now that he has an audience (and
NCIC and FBI files, no doubt) I wish he would consider toning
down the delivery. It's like comedy--a great comedian can take
a crappy joke and get people to laugh by getting the delivery
right. On the other hand, a lousy comedian can have the best
material in the world, but if he doesn't have the timing and
the delivery down, nobody will laugh. Same thing here. It's
one thing to say the truth, it's another thing entirely to
convince people.
As for Citizen Target, my heart really goes out to you man.
Like I said, while I've had some trouble with law enforcement,
basically I got off pretty easy, and to be honest and fair,
I was never treated that badly by police, and when i was, it
was always because i was drunk and acting like an obnoxious
nutcase. but you have apparently had much worse experiences
than I have. I really feel for you, and hope you can find
a way through your situation to a better, happier life... man
what a drag...
and about those tool lyrics, i see that as just as much a
message to *myself*, you know, reminding me not to get on my
high horse. i spent so many years being angry at everybody,
and I mean *everybody*, including myself, and then finally I
began to see that anger is a huge drain on you, and it is
a very inefficient way to get things done. I just want to
share that knowledge with everybody here--cops and anticops.
I just believe that now that Steve has gotten people here
together talking, think of what he could do if he could get
some negotiation or directed education going. Getting people
with wildly different views to just *begin* to sit down around
the table and talk is the real hard part, and Steve has
accomplished this. So he's already done the hard part, and
is paying for it. But now what? More anger? More revenge?
What I would *really* like to see would be for Steve to visit
the local Sherrif's departments and other police departments
throughout the denver area, and sit down with these people, and
explain, in clear, calm terms *why* he has created this
webpage. Instead of continuing this strategy where Steve
pisses off the cops who then waste their time hassling him,
causing him to have to waste his time fending them off, think
how much progress might be made if he could really get even
one cop still in uniform to think about these issues, and to
put himself in the place of the guy who gets shot and killed,
or put himself in the place of the family member left behind.
I think Steve is probably one of the greatest assets in terms
of a free democracy, that the Denver Metro police departments
have right now. I just wish that he and the cops could get
past the inflammatory language and the heightened emotions,
and sit down together and start making some real progress.
So that's where I'm coming from.
Robert Holder <bedlam@crystalnight.com>
Lakewood, CO USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 10:11:15 (MDT)
To: Robert Holder.
(1) A fraudulent money system that makes everyone slaves economically. For example, all cost of living expenses, including rent, are contrived and were created out of nothing.
What R/I/R is protecting is what I call "this fraud that calls itself our public government."
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 03:13:51 (MDT)
How fucking long do you think you would hold up having to put up with all the shit the cops do?
26 years and counting.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Sunday, October 17, 1999 at 15:20:06 (MDT)
QUESTION: who wrote the TOOl song down?? I really love TOOl
but i was wondering also what do YOU mean...what was YOUR point in
typing that out....???
TO ROBERT HOLDER:
IM glad you wrote that and I hope you helped at least one person
understand the job it is..i hope you have seen my quotes...
TO THE RETIRED/INJURED COP:
Hey I see what you mean by wasting my time...thanks for the reality check
......................................................................................................
FUTURE SAN JOSE POLICE OFFICER <carmen_young@yahoo.com>
san jose, ca USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 23:21:58 (MDT)
steve, i forgot to close my "center" tag... sorry!
robert holder <bedlam@crystalnight.com>
lakewood, co USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 17:28:07 (MDT)
JEsus CHRIST. You guys...! For FUCK'S SAKE...
met a boy
wearing Vans,
501s,
and a Dope
Beastie t,
nipple rings,
and New tattoos
that claimed that he
Was OGT,
back from '92,
from The first EP.
And in between
Sips of Coke
He told me
that He thought We
were sellin' out,
Layin' down,
Suckin' up
To The Man.
Well now
I've got some Ad Vice
for, little
buddy.
Before you point your finger
You should know that I'm The
Man,
And if I'm The Man,
Then you're The Man,
and he's The Man as well
so you can Point that fuckin'
finger up your ass.
Dumb fuck. I
sold out long before you ever
heard my name.
I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And
you
bought
one.
So I've got some Ad Vice
for you, little
buddy.
Before you point your finger
You should know that I'm The
Man,
If I'm The fuckin' Man
Then you're The fuckin' Man
as well
So you can Point that fuckin'
finger up your ass.
Robert Holder <bedlam@crystalnight.com>
lakewood, CO USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 17:21:43 (MDT)
Are there any laws on the books dealing w/ cops pulling people over in excess just to raise money for the city?
I've been the victim of a local small town twice in the last month. Furthermore it outrages me to see fellow motorists
pulled over on the same stretch of road by the same cop .. EVERY DAY!
How do I expose this to the point of stopping this injustice?
J <blair5150@earthink.net>
Northeast, OH USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 17:09:55 (MDT)
Woo boy... i haven't checked back here since copkiller went
down a month or two ago (or more?)... man... my heart is heavy.
FIRST of all, let me just say this: I am not "pro cop" in the
sense that I think everything cops do is wrong. I've had my
experiences with drugs and i've spent time on the "other" side
of the law. I don't have a lot of respect for authority, and
I think that there is too much corruption in government and
law enforcement. HOWEVER, I believe that 95%+ of all cops
are good-hearted people doing a shitty job. I've been arrested
several times, the most serious for misdemeanor assault. I know
what handcuffs feel like. So don't think I'm all soft on
police or anything like that.
But the first thing for me to say is that anybody who threatens
"Retired/Injured" is making a big fucking mistake. I've had
private correspondence with this guy for quite awhile now, and
don't think that just reading what he says here is the whole
story of who he is. He is a good guy. I don't mean he has
played by the rules and all that shit--he is a genuinely good
guy. So to anybody out there giving him shit or threatening him
which he told me somebody has done, you owe him a SERIOUS apology.
I just want to take a moment and ask all you anticop people
out there--how fucking long do you think you would hold up
having to put up with all the shit the cops do? I've been arrested
for disturbing the peace and being drunk and I'll tell you
right now that if I had to put up with assholes like ME day in
and day out, i'd go nuts. I'm not saying you don't have a point
about the police having some corruption, but let's come down
to earth, and sit down at the table here and try and have some
reasonable dialogue. How are we going to fix the problem?
You want to vent your feelings, fine. Nothing wrong with that.
But at the end of the day, what this whole discussion should
be about is creating a law enforcement that we can all agree
is doing it's job correctly. NOT just say "kill the cops" and
NOT just saying "we're the cops and everything we do is by
definition correct, and if you keep complaining, we're gonna
find you and fuck you up."
understand that a lot of what people post here has a lot of
emotion behind it, and if you sat down with them over a beer,
you would find that the person was not the demon you they might
seem to be when reading something they wrote when they were
charged up, and that goes for BOTH sides of the discussion here.
So all I'm saying is to try to keep your head a little bit,
on both sides. Nobody's perfect, and although you guys probably
are all screwed up in one way or another, I can almost guarantee
you that I'm more screwed up than any two of you out there
put together. So just try to keep your cool, and keep some
civility here. That's the only way we're going to learn
anything from each other, and that's the ONLY way we're going
to get anything meaningful done.
If you set yourself up for an adversarial relationship with
somebody, you can be pretty sure you're going to fight with
them. But if you set yourself up in a communications relationship
with that person, maybe you won't fight so much, and maybe you'll
actually learn from each other. that's all i'm asking here.
Robert Holder <bedlam@crystalnight.com>
Lakewood, CO USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 16:46:04 (MDT)
If you received my letter this morning,please excuse me for I am new at this and still is learning the ropes. I think I screwed up sending it.
I totally agree with you. I had a bad experience with Mesa Az. cops a few years ago. To this day, I utterly hate Mesa and its Goosestepping cops that are KGB. minded assholes.I was never read my rights or charged with anything. And yet I was handcuffed and thrown against their car were I was sore for three days. And I was thrown in jail for six hours missing work. They sent a report to my boss lying through their teeth. For instantance, they said they tried calling me. I have my answering machine on all the time and I never got a call from them. This is just one lye out of many. Not to mention, I just got out of the shower. I was shoeless and shirtless and dripping wet. All because the bitch upbove my apt. said I was making to much noise.I could kicked the legalize thug's ass, but I did not struggle. He said he would pepper spray me.
Ever since then, I keep my eyes and ears open for police brutality and I find it is wide spread.
I must tell you and everybody else. It is not racial! I was then a 38 year white male. The videos and pictures I have seen shows whites as well as minorties being clubbed and kicked. They doe not care who they beat as long as they satisfy their egotistical needs. Joke.
Q. What is the differance between a porcupine and a squad car with two cops in it?
A. The porcupine has the pricks on the outside.
From a fellow cop hater
David Mulberry <Dmulberry@webtv.net>
Aurora , Co USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 14:59:35 (MDT)
Keep it up! Someday we will make a difference.
Kelly Albers <kelly.albers@usa.net>
Tulsa, OK USA - Tuesday, October 12, 1999 at 13:22:49 (MDT)
To: FUTURE SAN JOSE POLICE OFFICER
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Sunday, October 10, 1999 at 23:52:05 (MDT)
osage county cops are filthy corrupted bastards!!!!!
jake renner
USA - Sunday, October 10, 1999 at 21:37:55 (MDT)
ALEC: i did see your site and i am "whole" heartedly sorry that
you had to go through that...ok lets get things out on the table in a
mature manner...i am a minority my self,not just the fact i am female,
but the fact i am a 5'2 109 pound filipino...i have gone through the
racist remarks and acts,people issuming i am mexican and should go back
to mexico...i have run into a police officer that put me down to my face
the fact i was pregnant at a young age(san jose officer),i have had my troubles
and tribulations...i know there are assholes out there that are my age
and think, hey i want to hold a gun or maybe even shoot one,
i have gone in through the main jail with a sheriff's deputy
to bring in drunks and i can always tell by the officers that
maybe wont be able to handle a person in custody calling him names.
i know there are officers out there that take advantage of the system
and think "hey i will just confiscate this weed here" and make it
for their own personal use.i know that there are asshole that call themselves
the cities finest and kill or hurt innocent people.even all that, even all the bull
shit that goes on behind stage, i want to still be a police officer..i know you may think
i am just young and nieve. but i will tell you all this,i am
more mature than most 18-25 year olds out there, i take care of my buisness, my son, and anything that
comes my way............................................
i see your points and concerns but please do not put down an officer that put his life on the line and
lost....
FSP
FUTURE SAN JOSE POLICE OFFICER
san jose, ca USA - Sunday, October 10, 1999 at 17:40:35 (MDT)
To the retired injured cop: if you read my page then you know I did not start this shit and I thank you for the nice words, and objective thought. I have spent the last ten years of my life being a hunted target with everyone trying to kill me for what they thought I knew, or would tell. The video program was also a way to protect myself. I look forward to your thoughts to my email address.
I have no choice but to do all I am doing now to stop them, not to be a hero or a martyr but just because I have no choice and it is the principle of the thing. Actually to be honest there is more than one tape, there are tapes, plural. I got a series of conversations on tape proving many of the allegations I have made. Many of the tapes have already been entered as evidence so there is no point in them trying to get them from me to prevent me from making them public, I have saved some of the best conversations for last and will be turning them in for discovery soon. But even if they came in my house to try to get them they would be wasting their time, but thanks for the advice. Look forward to hearing from you.
jon
j cobb <rawdealinc@yahoo.com>
USA - Sunday, October 10, 1999 at 15:13:33 (MDT)
For once, if I ignore R/I/R's character assasination of me that is, I can actually glean a tiny bit of sense from his latest posting and respond to it. Just to set the record straight, all of his "secret agent" crap is his invention as a result of him "going off the deep end." Anyways, let me try to respond to him. Maybe, just maybe, R/I/R might see the light.
(1) I gave you specific examples of people in the power elite in California, including Ira Reiner, committing crimes that the common person would be thrown in jail for. These are obvious examples of crime. There is no "interpreting them away." None of these examples were instances where I was the victim of the crime. All of the crime victims are people other than myself and most I do not know personally but through people that I do know. Here is what you can do. Take my evidence and act on it, or get police officers that you do know to act on it if you can't. A necessary condition for law and order to be restored in this country is for the law to uniformly enforced. For the law to be uniformly enforced, the power elite that commit crimes must be prosecuted just as the common person would.
You cry to me: "...Move onto something productive..." and claim that things like Judicial Watch, www.vetothegovernor.org and service to local charities, etc. is what you would call productive. By and large, most of what you claim to be productive is, in the long term, a waste of time and resources. www.vetothegovernor.org I said in one of my earlier postings might be an exception. The real need here is to get the people of this country united so that they can get rid of the fraudulent money and fraudulent courts. You cry about how that is impossible and that I am a "lunatic" for even trying. Yet, the United States, according to high school history, was founded on people being united in their effort to establish the Constitution. If the people can be united once, then they can become united again.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Sunday, October 10, 1999 at 07:41:51 (MDT)
To: FUTURE police officer for SAN JOSE.
It isn't just police officers who are subjected to that kind of abuse. A lot of the common people also receive that same abuse and when they go to the police for help, the police respond by doing nothing about the problem. As an example, consider myself:
I hope that this serves to clarify the points I had wanted to communicate to you in my first posting to you. If you have any further questions, just ask and I will do my best to answer.
For the past 14 years, I have been in the service business, and the last 3 years have been here in Long Beach. That type of work entails constant interaction with the public and can often lead to disagreements between you and some customer you might happen to be dealing with. Where I live in Long Beach, those disagreements can often lead to violence because of the type of people that live where I do. As a result, during these past 3 years, I have been physically attacked 4 times and verbally threatened too many times to count. Once, I was physically attacked while I was riding my bicycle on Long Beach city streets and former customers actually came out into the street to attack me. I was forced to defend myself with the pepper spray I had on me at the time. I succeeded in getting away from them and calling the police, but not before one of the attackers had punched me in the eye. What was the result? I had to spend 10 minutes on the phone arguing with the police before they would even send someone out and then I had to wait another 30 minutes for the police to show up. When they finally did show up, I had to argue with them for about 5 minutes in order to get them to even attempt a search for those people who had just attacked me. Then, on top of that, their search was an extremely half-hearted one and they even tried to make me out as a criminal because I had used my pepper spray to defend myself! The ultimate result was that the police did absolutely nothing about that attack against me.
This is not the only example where the police failed dismally in their duty. It is merely one of the more blatant examples. I have a multitude of other examples, and not just from Long Beach, but from several neighboring cities. In addition, I also have examples where the police failed dismally in their duty to people other than myself. In fact, the examples have become so numerous that it has become a systematic pattern of the police failing to fulfill their duty to the people.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Sunday, October 10, 1999 at 06:30:01 (MDT)
Comments for J Cobb: Thanks a lot for posting the URL to your web page. I just finished reading your story, and it's very interesting. You hit on several interesting points, and I would like to respond to some of the things that you talked about. If it's okay with you, I will be sending my response to your e-mail address and not the Guestbook. I'm just not in the mood any more to have a certain individual on here attempt to tear apart everything I write. But your story definitely did grab my interest, and you are very honest in describing your situation as well as being open for people to look at your police/parole reports, etc. All I can say right now is, whatever audio and/or videotapes you have, I sure hope they are in a place safer than Fort Knox! Those items, as I'm sure you already know, will be your "Trump Card" out of this mess. By the way, I'm not very far from you at all. I'm in Alameda County, so you're sort of right next door to me.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, October 10, 1999 at 04:42:48 (MDT)
Alec: For once, I will have to actually agree with you on something. I can't believe it myself, but I really am going to agree with you on one thing. Here is what you said, and this is also what I agree with: "So R/I/R says that "he doesn't want to play anymore." Based on his past behavior, I don't believe it."
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, October 10, 1999 at 04:36:04 (MDT)
In this posting, quotes from R/I/R are in blue. The rest is mine.
I find it hard to believe that you went to the watch commander and he was not helpful to you. If this is in fact true, then I question the significance of the topic of conversation you brought up to him. I can tell you from personal experience that is somebody comes to me (as a police officer) ranting and raving like a lunatic, throwing things out like "Constitution" and court cases and other things that you mentioned in your post, I will not really listen to what you are saying. I will basically just hear "blah blah blah blah". I'm not saying that to be dis-respectful, but I am saying this so that you know about human nature and more specifically, the police. As you pointed out, the cops don't make the laws or set the policy--they just do what they're told. I have taken people to jail before where I have honestly felt sorry for them because the law was ridiculous and I did not believe in it, but that is not up to me. I am required to do it, and if I am not going to do it then I am in the wrong profession (an example of that is a boyfriend/girlfriend dating since 8th grade, and then when they are seniors in high school, the male turns 18 and the female is 17 for another 3 months---because they are having sex, he is now committing stat. rape of a minor---a felony sex crime! I just do not agree with that--it's too traumatic for everyone involved. But it is not my place to agree or disagree---it is my job to enforce the laws whether I like it or not). Does anyone remember Hitler's goons, all of whom were tried and many of whom were executed for "just doing their job?" And, regarding the boyfriend/girlfriend example here, doesn't that appear to be a statute out of touch with reality and the needs of the people? Isn't it then possible that the government that created that statute is also out of touch with reality and the needs of the people? Furthermore, it is terrifying to realize that the police will mechanically come into your life and mechanically ruin it forever over an absurd technicality! Does anyone get the picture that the police are a deadly danger to them!
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Sunday, October 10, 1999 at 01:41:22 (MDT)
To the retired injured cop: the web page with my exact story is at www.angelfire.com/ok/hardfacs/index.html go and check it out. It was a parole violation, I was violated not for making the web page cause at that time I had no html knowledge, I was violated for giving the information to another party who did make the page. More or less a violation of my freedom of speech, I have a copy of the parole hearing where you can actually hear the hearing officer telling me I had no right to discuss my parole situation and make a web page. There was some information on it about a specific person and they deemed it an invasion of that persons privacy and safety. I argued that the info came from various police reports about that person which were obtainable by anyone under the freedom of information act, they basically wanted to violate me to keep me quiet, they felt if I was in jail then they could control me.
j cobb <rawdealinc@yahoo.com>
USA - Saturday, October 09, 1999 at 19:19:32 (MDT)
thank you all for your advice and comments...i do know the realism of law enforcement...i know
the risks i will encounter every night. but let me give you something to think about (ALEC)
if for 10 hours a day you are being called every name in the book, threatned, sometimes
advanced violently,and had to deal with the people you mother and sisters need protection from,
what kind of additude are you going to have after 5 or even 14 years. you either go numb to it
or you become one of them. and unfortunatly SOME go the other route. i do not excuse the assholes
that take things over the line, im just saying you are always going to hear about a cop gone bad
or a cop going off the deep end.no matter what people try to do, no matter what trainings, laws, backgroung
checks, or what ever it is to try and make sure that a cop doesnt go bad...its gonna happen, no matter what.
and sadly it ruins it for good cops like the retired officer that was injured on duty....anyway try and see what i
said........
(varsity)
FUTURE police officer for SAN JOSE <none>
san jose, ca USA - Saturday, October 09, 1999 at 11:16:08 (MDT)
Alec---I don't want to play any more. You're getting too boring, and you're also starting to tick me off. You're a disgrace to this country, and I wish you would leave so that you could go complain about some other country. The USA is the best country in the world, and those who don't appreciate it and walk around with conspiracy theories and complain about everything should get the hell out of here. For every point I've brought up with you, you bend your own rules to make sure they fit just you and nobody else. The most recent classic example of the way you operate is your answer to the money question. You blab over and over again how "fraudulent" this is, and how "fraudulent" that is. Then why do you use this "fraudulent" stuff (money)? Oh, because you have to survive. I see. Get off it you moron. I've been WAY too patient with you up to this point. You are a sick, sick, sick person. You are a disgrace to this country and a disgrace to society. If you're going to complain, fine, go ahead and complain. But at least make it something REAL, and offer some SOLUTIONS to the problem. Don't just sit there like an idiot, complaining about "secret agents", "corrupt judges", "courts of attornment", "fraudulent money", and all of this other crap. And yes, that's exactly what it is---CRAP! How far have you gotten with this stuff? NOWHERE--my point exactly. Is there any SANE person that will listen to your nonsense? No, there isn't. Do I have evidence of this? Of course not---I don't know you nor do I know anything about you except what has been revealed in this Guestbook. But common sense says plenty about you and what you stand for. I just get more disgusted the more I think about a person like you. A complete and total drain on society, a chronic whiner and complainer with NO answers for anything. When was the last time you did something GOOD for your community? Sorry dude, but you just make me sick. Redeem yourself, would you? Give up this crap that you talk about and move onto something REAL! Nobody is interested in this---NOBODY! (nobody sane that is) I have tried to fill you in on reality, but you just want nothing to do with it. You can disagree with me as to my stance on things, and that's fine with me. But damn it--come out of the fog that you walk around in. What got you started on this kick anyway? How many years have you been trying to get people to listen to this stuff? And why did you choose this Guestbook to spread your garbage? It barely has anything to do with cops. In a vague sense I suppose it does, but in reality, it has nothing to do with the actual topics here.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, October 09, 1999 at 04:18:52 (MDT)
For J Cobb: Thanks for responding to my earlier message. I look forward to following your program in the future. I wanted to let you know that, unless I'm doing something wrong, I can't get any information from your web page except the "Real" logo to click on to get the video clip of you to play. Below that, there is a small paragraph that you wrote. But besides that, there is no other information on the web page. On my end, it looks like it's divided into 3 separate "windows", with the top window being the title of the page, the left window being empty, and the right window having the "Real" logo in it. If I am missing something, please let me know. I have no idea how to follow your program from this point. The only thing I have access to is your original video presentation that I referred to earlier. If it helps, I'm using Netscape Communicator 4.61. I just looked again to make sure, and I do not see any links to other web sites and I do not see anything that tells your story. I would be very interested in reading these things.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, October 09, 1999 at 03:57:58 (MDT)
For the young woman interested in going into law enforcement (SJPD), or anybody else considering it: This Guestbook gives you a rough idea of the types of people you will encounter while working as a cop. It's not all the glory and excitement that the TV shows and movies like to portray. It's a great job and I wouldn't have traded my years there for anything else, but you should just know that you have to interact with people from all walks of life, most of whom don't like you and think they have the answers to everything. One small example of the person you will have to deal with on occassion is the person known as "Alec" on this Guestbook. In one of his recent posts, he invites the reader to click on a link to his web page. I HIGHLY encourage you to do exactly that. Once you read his material, try to picture yourself dealing with this a man like this in person. What laws are enforceable, if any? What type of officer safety concerns do you have with a person like this? And always remember to carry a small tape recorder in your shirt pocket to record all contacts with people. That way, all conversations are on tape so that you can prove what was said and what was not said. That little recorder saved me a few times from serious investigations. I would let the person make the complaint and write down all of the lies about me, and I would then produce the tape with the entire encounter recorded. They would instantly withdraw their complaint and leave. Unfortunately, I never got to use the new law that went into effect a few years ago which makes it illegal for a citizen to knowingly file a false police complaint. But anyway, my whole point here is to educate yourself as much as you can as to the different types of people you will be facing, should you a) choose this occupation, b) get hired by a PD, and c) successfully complete training and probation. Unfortunately, a lot of new officers come into the job with the expecatation of helping people, and being the "knight in shining armour" coming to the rescue. Once their eyes get opened to the REAL world of law enforcement, they leave and go back to their old careers. You can't change the world, and most of the laws are written in favor of the criminals and NOT the victims. The court process is a very frustrating thing to be involved in, as you see the "revolving door" on the front let people come and go before you've even started to write your report. The job does have it's fun moments though, and there are instances where you have the opportunity to make a small difference in people's lives. But if your goal is to help people, then you're looking at the wrong career---be a firefighter.
Retired/Injured Cop <user3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, October 09, 1999 at 03:19:58 (MDT)
To: Future Police Officer for SAN JOSE.
The posting immediately preceding this one got cut off in the middle. This is the complete posting.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Saturday, October 09, 1999 at 01:00:23 (MDT)
To: Future Police Officer for SAN JOSE.
You have a great attitude, at this point in time, that is. I especially liked your statement about on-duty police receiving double the penalty that a citizen would for the same crime, because of the fact that they are police and should know better. It is a nice thought. I would even add that police should receive double the penalty whether they are on or off duty. The role the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution plays here needs to be made clear, however. In particular, the 14th Amendment forbids different penalties for different people who are guilty of the same crime, and for good reason. What is not forbidden, however, and what is not enforced, to the point of absurdity, is, when police commit the same crimes that a citizen would, they become guilty not only of the crimes the citizen would be guilty of, but also of the additional crime of committing crimes under color of law. That is where police committing crimes could be punished double.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Saturday, October 09, 1999 at 00:56:10 (MDT)
Well, R/I/R is really grasping at straws to attack me as he seems to believe that a successful attack on my credibility is necessary to protect his fantasy land charade. He will even stoop to the following:
"Oh--and just so you know, you say in your latest post to "compare it to the manner in which he addresses the uninformed (the 3rd to the last posting to this guestbook)". Well, when I look at the 3rd to the last posting to this guestbook, it's something written by a person who identifies himself as "The Police", and he lists his location as "Texas USA". Are you now starting to say that OTHER postings on this Guestbook are written by me as well? If so, you're slipping off the deep end faster than I realized."
For R/I/R's education, on basic logic that is, my statement above is correct in the context of that posting being the last to this guestbook, which it obviously was when I posted it. So, the statement becomes incorrect when future postings are made. Big deal. It is an easy mistake to make when you are in a hurry and have other things to do. Just about anyone can fill in the appropriate context and figure what I really mean. But R/I/R, trying to make it out as if I am "slipping off the deep end?" What utter nonsense! R/I/R must either be a complete idiot or extremely desperate to smear me in any manner that he can.
"Alec---since you believe that US Currency is fraudulent and illegal, how do you pay for things? Because if you participate in this huge scam and coverup that I am a big part of, doesn't that make you a criminal too?"
The answer is:
First, understand that the money fraud doesn't exist in the United States alone. It is planetwide, thanks to the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. So, no matter where you go, you are forced to use some sort of fraudulent currency and thereby forced into becoming part of the fraud. Most people are completely uninformed about this issue and find this issue hard to grasp for some reason, especially when it comes to things like the United Nations being tied to the fraudulent money issues and I am certain that R/I/R will use this extensively in an attempt to ruin my credibility to protect his fantasy land facade.
So, does that make me a criminal? Absolutely not. Anyone who has the tinest bit of morality and spirituality can see this for themself. Of course, R/I/R appears to be completely lacking in morality and spirituality, so I am sure that he will try to make me out as a "criminal," or at least a "kook" here. He might even try to pass this response to his question off as "endless babble" or some such.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Saturday, October 09, 1999 at 00:05:14 (MDT)
P.S.
You are talking to the only man in the history of san quentin prison to be sentenced to one year, for a web page on the internet airing all of the parole departments diry laundry, so I decided since they hate exposure I would give them some, so don't sit here and tell me I am a guy looking for trouble, but then people always seem to say stuff like that to those who are standing up for their rights and beliefs.
j cobb <rawdealinc@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, October 08, 1999 at 20:41:49 (MDT)
This is to the retired injured cop. I would welcome your input on the show anytime. My show is a bit different in that most people try to stay neutral but I will give my opinion. As far as the ex-con thing, all I meant was I KNOW the system very well. So my wording was off, big deal. Now as far as what I have done to piss of the FBi and such you uunfortunately suffer from the same mental delusions as others that you have to do something to be targeted by these agencies. What did I do? Well if you reall the "About me" part on my page and take the link to the other page you will see my whole story. I am guilty of not cooperating with a federal investigation and in not doing so the indicted party got off and certains feds blamed me, when they finally got something on me (high school burglary during prank week in school) they decided to teach me a lesson so to speak and the feds pulled called in some favors with certain parole agents and had them harass and threaten me and generally make life horrible for me. I could not prove any of this at first until one day I went into the parole office with a mirco tape recorder taped to my stomach and I baited the parole agent into arrogantly admitting that he had been approached by the feds and told to give me the "treatment". When it was discovered I had this tape that could tied the feds to parole which is clearly a case of state and federal agents working together collusively all hell broke loose, that is why I am suing them now, cause I have this tape that has been ruled as admissible evidence and all I am doing is going after the men who made my life hell just to prove a point, and that is just because you have a badge that makes you feel you can fuck with anyone and get away with it does not always mean you should try it with everyone. I had to sue all of the separate agencies as per the judges order. So do not always assume that if someone is tangling with the cops, feds and everyone else it is because they are some guy looking for trouble. I did not start this but I am going to finish it all the way in court. You do not know the facts but then you are a cop so I expect that kind of thinking. The shows will be every two weeks and there will be a schedule going up and I will encode the conversation on tape and allow people to hear it for themselves in the near future.
j cobb <rawdealinc@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, October 08, 1999 at 20:37:33 (MDT)
This message is to the 18 year old future San Jose cop: I commend you for wanting to go into law enforcement in these current times that we live in. First of all, I hope you realize that you have to be prepared for people to hate you, regardless of how nice of a person you are and regardless of what accomplishments you have made in your life. This web page is but a very small example of what you will encounter in the occupation of police officer. I have 13 years experience working for a police department right next door to San Jose. I won't say the name of the city on this Guestbook to keep my privacy. But San Jose is a good department to work for, although I think they are underpaid. My salary as an officer was the same as an SJPD sergeant. My buddies at SJPD would always tell me to come over to San Jose and work there. Why on earth would I leave my current employer to take such a HUGE pay cut? But anyway, if you can't get hired by SJPD in a few years, there are some other fine agencies in the area such as: Campbell PD, Milpitas PD, Sunnyvale DPS, Santa Clara PD, and a few others. You might want to look at BART PD also. Their pay isn't so bad, and they are always looking for women and minorities. And also, just to give you some real-world facts, whether you like them or not, police departments generally do not hire people based upon their qualifications any more. The first thing they are looking for right now is your sex and your skin color, and whether or not your are bilingual. In the Santa Clara Valley, if anybody is bilingual in Spanish or Vietnamese, is a female, and is a non-white, you are pretty much guaranteed to get hired as long as your background comes back clean. It's a shame, but it's true. If you are a white male or even a white female, and you have been an Explorer with a police department since high school, and if you went to San Jose State and got your 4 year degree in Administratin of Justice, and you have all sorts of volunteer jobs in the law enforcement field---it does not matter. The bottom line right now is skin color and what languages you speak. People don't like to hear the facts, nor do they even WANT to hear them. But that is the truth today. I don't know how it will change in the future, but for now, that's what we are stuck with. Don't believe me???? Drop by the police academy (Evergreen College) and take a look at the recruits. Count how many white males you see in there. Anyway, good luck with your career choice. These next 3 years are CRUCIAL for you. Stay clean, stay away from drugs, stay out of trouble, and start preparing yourself for the job right now. Exercise and get in good shape, take some AJ classes, go on some ride-alongs, and whatever else you can think of. It's an incredibly difficult job these days, and the suspects are more violent than ever. Good luck!
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Friday, October 08, 1999 at 18:55:59 (MDT)
Well Alec, at least you didn't surprise me. You just don't want to answer that money question do you? Have you backed yourself into a corner and don't know how to answer it? Hmmmm.......How should you answer that question? The funny thing is, I have given you so many logical, legal, clear, sane, and concise statements that you do nothing except continue to post your "secret agent", "courts of attornment", "treason, fraud, theft" garbage. Will you EVER answer a direct question? Yeah, I didn't think so. You're one of these guys that likes to hide behind a bunch of rambling, non-sensical, legal mumbo-jumbo that makes no sense. You have no idea what a direct answer is to a direct question do you? It's hard for me to pick which one of your answers was the funniest. I think I would probably go with your response to my posting a few weeks ago about what would happen if the country followed your "wishes" and did away with the current system of government. I don't remember what your exact words were, and I'm not going to take the time to go back and look, but I recall it was something like "the people must work together to bring things back to the way they should be". Have you ever tried to get a group of 5 people to work together, let alone an entire country??? You have NO IDEA what you are talking about. And you know what? I'm still amazed that you are pouring your energies into this ludicrous and insane argument. Like I've said before, it's too bad you don't take your talents and passion to make things right by working towards a REAL goal---something that will be good for people and good for the human race. But for whatever reason, you continue to hide behind a bunch of b.s. that makes no sense. I would love to see what your life is like. I'll bet you're the kind of guy that is a quiet neighbor, doesn't bother anybody unless they bother you, and you go to work in the morning, and come home at night. But all of your neighbors would most likely say, "He's weird. We just stay away from him". If you GOT A LIFE and attacked a real, tangible, sane project, you could actually make a difference in your life and others. Why you hide behind this "secret agent" crap is beyond me.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Friday, October 08, 1999 at 18:40:25 (MDT)
hi i am 18 years old and i just happen to come across your site
i am a female who wants to become a police officer for san jose...i want to protect the innocent,
i want to do what the citizens expect out of a poice officer
my love for law enforcment has brought me to want to be a police officer...now i see your strong point on police crimes...and i understand and see what yuo mean...
but if citizens went around saying they want to slash police officers throats, dont you think that is
the same? YES majority of police officers get off easy when they commit a crime...(personally i think if a citizen gets caught stealing and the punishment was 2 years time, and say a
police officer was caught on duty doing the same he should get double). I dont excuse these men and women who abused their job....I lost all respect for people like that.... TO THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO DO SERVE AND PROTECT>>>>
I RESPECT AND COMMEND YOU FOR YOUR HARD WORK AND PUTTING YOUR LIFE ON THE LINE EVERYDAY FOR THE INNOCENT
Future Police Officer for SAN JOSE <none>
san jose, ca USA - Friday, October 08, 1999 at 18:30:32 (MDT)
Will everyone please observe the manner in which R/I/R responds to me (the posting to this guestbook immediately before this one) and compare it to the manner in which he addresses the uninformed (the 3rd to the last posting to this guestbook)? In particular, observe the extremely nasty attacks on my character and the disrespect he shows me as a person, simply because I have presented him with evidence that he cannot refute and that destroys his little fantasy land charade. It should be obvious at this point that R/I/R will stop at nothing to protect something that, based on my evidence, is obviously criminal.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Friday, October 08, 1999 at 17:03:44 (MDT)
Alec, Alec, Alec.....What ARE we going to do with you? You're actually very funny. I don't even need to read the comics in the morning paper any more---I get a much bigger laugh here!
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Friday, October 08, 1999 at 16:23:12 (MDT)
In this posting, R/I/R (Retired/Injured Cop <User 3665@aol.com>)'s quotes are in blue. The rest is mine. I predict that R/I/R will respond to this posting with his typical broken record direct attack on my character, and with yet more confusing, official sounding, and intimating drivel.
"So not only have you most likely been conducting activity to generate the attention of law enforcement, but when contacted by them, instead of cooperating with the officer(s), you chose to pick a fight (not literally) and you know exactly what buttons to push to generate your complaints. I'm not sure I understand why people have a mission in life to do this. It has always boggled my mind. I have run across these types of people in the past, and I know exactly what they're doing within 10 seconds of talking to them. It's such a waste of time for both the citizen and the officer."
Later on in this posting I will requote some of what R/I/R has said in his previous postings. It meshes so well with this quote of his I just gave and with what the government really is in this country. In particular, do understand that R/I/R believes that the common person is incompetent to quote the United States Constitution, a document written in plain English! Furthermore, R/I/R believes that anyone, who stands up for his or her rights whenever this so called government chooses to deny that person those rights, is a crazy, kook, whacko, troublemaker, criminal, etc! Don't believe me? Read on!
(1) A fraudulent money system in the United States. The Federal Reserve is a private corporation (Lewis vs. U.S., April 19, 1982) owned solely by foreign nationals and is an enemy of the people of the United States of America. Because of this fraudulent money system, the people of this country are having to struggle ever harder with time to pay expenses (primarily taxes, fines, rent and fees) that allow them only to exist. All of these expenses are contrived and have been ultimately created out of nothing by the owners and stockholders of the Federal Reserve in exactly the same manner that they printed their fraudulent paper money. The people of this country receive nothing in exchange for having to pay all those expenses. Another thing that this fraudulent money system has done is allow the owners and stockholders of the Federal Reserve to corrupt the officers of the government, and especially the court officers, in this country into becoming their foreign agents, in secret. This brings me to the next element of the fraud that calls itself our public government.
This is a summary of R/I/R's position towards the common person. Based on this, anyone should be able to see that R/I/R is completely biased in favor of the fraud I just described and is not at all competent to comment on anything in this guestbook:
I find it hard to believe that you went to the watch commander and he was not helpful to you. If this is in fact true, then I question the significance of the topic of conversation you brought up to him. I can tell you from personal experience that is somebody comes to me (as a police officer) ranting and raving like a lunatic, throwing things out like "Constitution" and court cases and other things that you mentioned in your post, I will not really listen to what you are saying. I will basically just hear "blah blah blah blah". I'm not saying that to be dis-respectful, but I am saying this so that you know about human nature and more specifically, the police. As you pointed out, the cops don't make the laws or set the policy--they just do what they're told. I have taken people to jail before where I have honestly felt sorry for them because the law was ridiculous and I did not believe in it, but that is not up to me. I am required to do it, and if I am not going to do it then I am in the wrong profession (an example of that is a boyfriend/girlfriend dating since 8th grade, and then when they are seniors in high school, the male turns 18 and the female is 17 for another 3 months---because they are having sex, he is now committing stat. rape of a minor---a felony sex crime! I just do not agree with that--it's too traumatic for everyone involved. But it is not my place to agree or disagree---it is my job to enforce the laws whether I like it or not). Does anyone remember Hitler's goons, all of whom were tried and many of whom were executed for "just doing their job?" And, regarding the boyfriend/girlfriend example here, doesn't that appear to be a statute out of touch with reality and the needs of the people? Isn't it then possible that the government that created that statute is also out of touch with reality and the needs of the people? Furthermore, it is terrifying to realize that the police will mechanically come into your life and mechanically ruin it forever over an absurd technicality! Does anyone get the picture that the police are a deadly danger to them!
Hopefully, this will make it clear to everyone reading this guestbook that R/I/R is doing his utmost to put on a charade to keep the people of this country divided and confused so that he, his police officer cohorts, and the criminals (judges and attorneys) that they protect, can continue to bleed the people of this country out of everything that they have and everything that they are.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Friday, October 08, 1999 at 04:32:15 (MDT)
This comment is for "J Cobb": I went to your web page, and I listened to your 10 minute video presentation and would like to offer some comments on it. While I can most likely safely assume that you will not agree with most of what I have to say, I would like to make the comments nonetheless.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, October 07, 1999 at 23:25:13 (MDT)
See that is what makes no sense to me, cops walk around like they are so tough and all, then you make a web page and they use their badges to get it removed from the ISP, that to me is real chicken shit, if you are a cop you volunteered for the job and all that goes with it, I have had some of my webpages removed by scared cops and I always put them back up, it is my duty, to not knuckle under. www.freespeech.org/talesofinjustice
j cobb <rawdealinc@yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, October 07, 1999 at 13:30:09 (MDT)
Way to go. I own killercop.com. The little
piglets were so afraid of me that they've taken to
threating my helpless ISP's. I was up to 2500 hits a day
before they managed to shut me down. But I live again...
unlike the pig I shot today who pulled me over for nothing.
Hahahahahaha...don't waste my time!
Love,
Killercop
killercop <killercop99@hotmail.com>
Lost Angeles, Kalifornia U.S. of the A - Thursday, October 07, 1999 at 01:28:03 (MDT)
Way to go. I own killercop.com. The little
piglets were so afraid of me that they've taken to
threating my helpless ISP's. I was up to 2500 hits a day
before they managed to shut me down. But I live again...
unlike the pig I shot today who pulled me over for nothing.
Hahahahahaha...don't waste my time!
Love,
Killercop
Steven <killercop99@hotmail.com>
Lost Angeles, Kalifornia U.S. of the A - Thursday, October 07, 1999 at 01:27:47 (MDT)
Here is the URL for my site with my weekly show, it is at http://www.freespeech.org/talesofinjustice
I like covering stories about cop abuses and corruption, if you know of any good stories send them to me. Check out the site.
j cobb <rawdealinc@yahoo.com>
USA - Wednesday, October 06, 1999 at 21:16:45 (MDT)
I really like the concept, far to many people are programmed to be afraid and intimidated by the cops. I am not and if you stop by my new site you will see I host a new weekly show that will showcase corruption and abuses by cops and the system as a whole. Check it out and if you have any good stories I can cover send them my way and I would hope that you would put a link on your page to my site, thanks
jon cobb <rawdealinc@yahoo.com>
palo alto, ca USA - Wednesday, October 06, 1999 at 21:13:41 (MDT)
To the Secret Squirrel:
Hey you twisted fucker, I know that you read this page because the ONLY time that I get anonymous emails from your above screen name is when I post here. You are truly a ball-less nut leach.
Tim <StevePordon@dumbass.com>
USA - Monday, October 04, 1999 at 18:00:17 (MDT)
Hey asswipe, I'm back again. I understand that they have promoted you to"Supervisor of Burger Building" at McDonald's. Congratulations. By the way, I love the way that you add extras tomy postings it shows your true nature. Later Burger Boy.
Tim <StevePordon@dumbass.com>
USA - Sunday, October 03, 1999 at 23:09:32 (MDT)
Is a cheap attack on my character, and a broken record at that, the best you can do, Teh Editor? Heaven help the community you are living in. What a drain you must be to them! Why don't you contribute something positive to this guestbook for a change, if only a rebuttal. Oops! I forgot. That is way beyond your abilities. How sad!
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Friday, October 01, 1999 at 01:40:47 (MDT)
Yawn----Yawn. Time for my monthly check-in. SS-DD (Same shit-different day). Hi Alec---I'm glad to see that they are letting you play on the computer. You know how you get when you aren't allowed to play. They say that it's good therapy. Did you take your medicine today? I'll be sure to visit you again next month. Listen to the nurses, they know what's best for you.
"Teh Editor" <MyPage.USA>
USA - Thursday, September 30, 1999 at 23:19:12 (MDT)
Obviously, "Piggy Roasta," you failed to read through this guestbook. Generally speaking, all of the judges, attorneys and police in the United States are corrupt to the core. I, as well as others, have posted ample evidence to prove this. Maybe you should read some of it. Whether or not the situation is the same at this time in Canada, I don't know. I do know that the money fraud that plagues the United States is planetwide, that the United Nations is intimately connected with that planetwide money fraud and that Canada is a member of the United Nations. So, if Canada is indeed free of the corruption that plagues the United States now, I believe it to be only a matter of time before it does fall prey to that same corruption.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Thursday, September 30, 1999 at 16:12:13 (MDT)
Dear Webmaster,
I would like to know your views on the canadian police force (O.P.P, mounted police ect...) i live in canada and have never seen a crooked cop before i just wanted to know if there were any in canada plus you site sucks a mean one
Piggy Roasta
USA - Thursday, September 30, 1999 at 15:50:49 (MDT)
you should die
Mike Hunt
VA USA - Wednesday, September 29, 1999 at 22:44:08 (MDT)
Alec---since you believe that US Currency is fraudulent and illegal, how do you pay for things? Because if you participate in this huge scam and coverup that I am a big part of, doesn't that make you a criminal too? I'm trying to figure out your logic---or lack thereof. Maybe you're a double-secret agent, and since I'm only a secret agent, I don't know about you yet. I have to wait until "they" send me to "double-secret agent training" to get the answers to my questions. Geez, being a secret agent of this fraudulent system that calls itself our government sure can be difficult at times. A life of crime isn't as easy as it looks you know. (Alec---I am being SARCASTIC here. I feel the need to point this out so that your next post won't say, "Ah-hah! He finally admits it! See---I told you so!").
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, September 29, 1999 at 08:38:48 (MDT)
"R/I/R's response here will probably be that "you are a nut and this is all part of your delusion."
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, September 29, 1999 at 07:45:39 (MDT)
In this posting, quotes from R/I/R are in blue. The rest is mine. Regarding R/I/R's latest post, he accuses me of several things, including "delusional, closed minded, lunatic, the truth hurts, nut, emotionally disturbed person." What R/I/R fails to realize is that that is his opinion and whims speaking and that he is all of those things that he accuses me of. Regarding "emotionally disturbed person," I now wonder if R/I/R considers me some sort of malleable commodity. Now, that is a
scary thought. R/I/R says, amongst other things, that he rarely sees a grammar error on my part, suggesting intelligence and can't understand why I take the position that I do against the fraud that calls itself our
public government. That, in itself, should suggest to him that my position isn't unrealistic at all. But, obviously, he has completely ignored that clue. What terrifies me most here is R/I/R's position, considering that it
isn't just me bringing forth this evidence but several other people as well, who agree with me, and not with R/I/R.
(1) A fraudulent money system in the United States. The Federal Reserve is a private corporation (Lewis vs. U.S., April 19, 1982) owned solely by foreign nationals and is an enemy of the people of the United States of America. Because of this fraudulent money system, the people of this
country are having to struggle ever harder with time to pay expenses (primarily taxes, fines, rent and fees) that allow them only to exist. All of these expenses are contrived and have been ultimately created out of nothing by the owners and stockholders of the Federal
Reserve in exactly the same manner that they printed their fraudulent paper money. The people of this country receive nothing in exchange for having to pay all those expenses. Another thing that this fraudulent money
system has done is allow the owners and stockholders of the Federal Reserve to corrupt the officers of the government, and especially the court officers, in this country into
becoming their foreign agents, in secret. This brings me to the next element of the fraud that calls itself our public government.
Lest R/I/R try to make it out as if I am trying to drag the entire world down into violence and chaos, as he so graphically attempted to do in his last posting, let me point out (again) that the elimination of this fraud
that calls itself our public government need not be violent. I am not suggesting the elimination of the infrastructure of this society in any manner, although R/I/R doesn't seem to grasp this. I am simply saying that
the miserable elements that I described above need to be eliminated. That will take a lot of work on the part of everyone in this country but I don't see it threatening the infrastructure of this country, unless the criminals furthering the fraud that calls itself our public government want it to, that is.
"I can tell you from personal experience that if somebody comes to me (as a police officer) ranting and raving like a lunatic, throwing things out like
"Constitution" and court cases and other things that you mentioned in your post, I will not really listen to what you are saying. I will basically just hear "blah blah blah blah"."
R/I/R claims that I am quoting the above out of context and that if I were to include it in context that it would be too much of the truth and that it would hurt me. Furthermore, he requoted the statements immediately
preceding and following and said that they were part of the context that I didn't want to bring up. I disagree and will be only too happy to include both those statements, and more, with the above quote from this point on.
He need only have asked. The reason that I had been including just the quote above is to not become too confusing and wordy. However, he insists on having the "full context," so I will cooperate. Accordingly, here is my revised statement of the entire problem that I have with R/I/R.
I find it hard to believe that you went to the watch commander and he was not helpful to you. If this is in fact true, then I question the significance of the topic of conversation you brought up to him. I can
tell you from personal experience that is somebody comes to me (as a police officer) ranting and raving like a lunatic, throwing things out like "Constitution" and court cases and other things that you mentioned in your post, I will not really listen to what you are saying. I will basically just
hear "blah blah blah blah". I'm not saying that to be dis-respectful, but I am saying this so that you know about human nature and more specifically, the police. As you pointed out, the cops don't make the laws or set the
policy--they just do what they're told. I have taken people to jail before where I have honestly felt sorry for them because the law was ridiculous and I did not believe in it, but that is not up to me. I am required to do it, and if I am not going to do it then I am in the wrong profession (an
example of that is a boyfriend/girlfriend dating since 8th grade, and then when they are seniors in high school, the male turns 18 and the female is 17 for another 3 months---because they are having sex, he is now committing stat. rape of a minor---a felony sex crime! I just do not agree with that--it's too traumatic for everyone involved. But it is not my place to agree or disagree---it is my job to enforce the laws whether I like it or not). Does anyone remember Hitler's goons, all of whom were tried
and many of whom were executed for "just doing their job?" And, regarding the boyfriend/girlfriend example here, doesn't that appear to be a statute out of touch with reality and the needs of the people? Isn't it then
possible that the government that created that statute is also out of touch with reality and the needs of the people?
R/I/R brought up that absurdity about me being "mentally ill," again. This is yet more stock police reflex response no doubt and I don't even want to consider it further this time as I have addressed it in the past and I am tired of
repeating myself. Let me guess, R/I/R considers what I just said to be the statement of a nut. There is just one flaw in his so called logic here: it wasn't me that originally said that police labeling people as kooks, crazies, etc. is yet more stock police reflex response.
Regarding the DMW, it has allowed Crysler Motor Corporation to knowingly manufacture defective motor vehicle parts, specifically those having to do with the Crysler lean burn system (computer controlled ignition system). Said defective parts were capable of causing whoever would be driving the car at the time to lose control of the car and cause an accident. Considering the number of Crysler motor vehicles that have been manufactured, it seems likely that those defective parts are responsible for at least some accidents causing injury or death. The same person who was robbed of the $5 million estate (NOT ME) had one of
these motor vehicles. He has testimony from 10 other owners of these motor vehicles, thus proving the evidence. He also has evidence that Crysler knew of a problem
with these cars and that they attempted to fix it without telling anyone. That person made a formal complaint to Mr. Ira Reiner and Mr. Reiner responded: "Insufficent evidence to prosecute." Last I remember, the evidence is still on file at the Los Angeles County District Attorney's office. Mr. Retired/Injured/Retarded, EX LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, according to the California State Department of Motor Vehicles, if anyone KNOWINGLY manufactures a defective motor vehicle and it endangers the lives of the road and highway users of this State, it is a FELONY. Mr. Retired/Injured/Retarded, EX LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER,
failure to do anything with this statement and the evidence which will gladly be brought to your attention, constitutes misprision of a felony. Therefore, Mr. Retired/Injured/Retarded, EX LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, you are duty bound to act.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Wednesday, September 29, 1999 at 05:56:16 (MDT)
Citizen: I have never heard of the term "replevin" before, so thank you for the explanation of that. You live in a very corrupt area of the country, in my opinion, when it comes to law enforcement and the courts. I've read the articles in the newspapers about the corruption, and it just blows my mind. I can't even begin to understand how things reached such high levels of corruption in the first place. There are so many checks and balances along the way, and those all failed miserably to stop the things that have happened. I haven't seen anything in recent months about your area, so I'm wondering if things are getting better or if the news media got bored and moved onto something else even though the problem still exists.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, September 29, 1999 at 04:42:17 (MDT)
R/I:
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, September 29, 1999 at 01:43:40 (MDT)
TO: Citizen Target
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Tuesday, September 28, 1999 at 23:27:11 (MDT)
Alec writes: "My intent here with R/I/R is to rebut everything that he posts...."
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Tuesday, September 28, 1999 at 12:02:15 (MDT)
In this posting, quotes from R/I/R are in blue. The rest is mine. I have always tried to be predictable. It is not in my nature to deceive anyone. R/I/R says that he can't see what I am trying to accomplish here? I've posted it several times but I'll repeat it briefly here:
My intent here with R/I/R is to rebut everything that he posts to prevent him from further misleading the people of this website away from the truth about the fraud that calls itself our public government.
My entire problem with R/I/R, in essence, boils down to the following:
"I can tell you from personal experience that is somebody comes to me (as a police officer) ranting and raving like a lunatic, throwing things out like "Constitution" and court cases and other things that you mentioned in your post, I will not really listen to what you are saying. I will basically just hear "blah blah blah blah"."
R/I/R says that I don't listen and that my mind is closed. Why doesn't HE LISTEN and why is his mind closed. If R/I/R would open up what is left of his heart and tune in to what is left of his spirit just a tiny bit, he just might be able to grasp where I am coming from and see for himself just how evil and satanic the fraud that calls itself our public government really is. There is still time for him to become normal and perhaps do the people of this country some good, although, because of his past behavior towards me and specifically because of his threat towards me on September 25, 1999, I personally will NEVER TRUST HIM and will never want him anywhere near me or involved in anything that I am doing.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Tuesday, September 28, 1999 at 04:31:13 (MDT)
Alec---You did exactly what I knew you would do. You've become too predictable. You once again avoided my questions. It's too bad you're not able to provide a "bottom line" to all of these things that you do (web page, diatribes on the Guestbook, etc). I still have no idea what it is you're looking to accomplish. And just so you know why I don't go through and address each thing you say, point by point, is because it would be a complete waste of my time. Number one, clearly your mind is made up your mind is closed. You believe your "research" so much that you have completely lost touch with reality. So no matter what I write, no matter what I say, it will go in one ear and out the other. So now you know why I don't bother addressing your writings. I love a good discussion with somebody, and I respect the other person's opinions. But the person I am debating with must first and foremost be sane. In this case, you clearly are not. Anyone that lives a life thinking such constant, paranoid thoughts as you certainly needs help. That is why I have the open offer to help you anytime. If you ask, I will not turn my back on you and I will be there for assistance. It's a shame that you take your energy and intelligence and put it into something worthwhile. Imagine how much good you could do with your obvious intelligence and education. You could donate your time to charities that need help, assist the elderly, assist with AIDS patients, cancer patients, or yes, even volunteer at the local police department. You need to see life as it really is. I'm not sure how or why you ended up in the state that you are in, and it's none of my business. But mental health problems can be treated these days very easily. Not only through medication, but with a good counselor, huge improvements can be made. I feel sorry for you, living in such a paranoid and dilusional world. Please go seek help, before you get yourself or somebody else hurt.
Retired/Injured COp <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Monday, September 27, 1999 at 23:12:32 (MDT)
Citizen Target, you wrote:
R/I:
As far as California is concerned, the seizure of weapons is permanent. They just simply hide that fact better here. R/I/R says that the law requires weapons to be returned after 10 days, or some similar variation thereof.
Good law.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Monday, September 27, 1999 at 03:53:50 (MDT)
You are obviously a person who knows nothing about case law decisions, as well as the "spirit of the law" and how it applies itself in real life. You quote all of these laws like everything is followed in black and white just becuase it's written. There is the fantasy-land of reading the law books, and there is the reality of actually applying those laws in real life. I'm just telling you this since you obviously live in fantasy-land. Basically, you don't know what you're talking about. And there is no way I'm going to take the time to justify why. There isn't room for two people in your strange little world.
Well, that is the attitude that the courts and police here in California take towards the common person and, in this case, they adopt that attitude to cover up the ongoing theft of firearms from the common person. Their
goal?: if they could strip the people completely of their weapons then they could implement their fraudulent New World Order (read my website if you don't believe me).
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Monday, September 27, 1999 at 22:54:28 (MDT)
So R/I/R again proves that he is a fast talker. First, he says he will not respond to me any more. Then, when he can't resist getting in the last word, he changes what he said after the fact. And, incidently, he has failed to respond directly to anything that I have said, or to any evidence that I have brought forth, instead essentially claiming that "I don't know what I am talking about." But, his "logic," if anyone can call it that, is fatally flawed. The evidence that I have brought forth is not me talking. A large fraction of it are admissions by the officers of the fraud, that calls itself our public government, that contradict each other and long standing well known principles and rights that this fraud, that calls itself our public government, professes to recognize as belonging naturally to the people.
"I can tell you from personal experience that is somebody comes to me (as a police officer) ranting and raving like a lunatic, throwing things out like "Constitution" and court cases and other things that you mentioned in your post, I will not really listen to what you are saying. I will basically just hear "blah blah blah blah"."
The rest of R/I/R's comments, and especially what he said in his latest posting to me here, basically consist of what an Orwellian punk bully would say to someone he feels he has complete power over. In simple terms that would be: "we use work you over however we please and what are you going to do about it?"
Where DO you come up with this stuff??" Obviously R/I/R will never openly admit that he considers himself, his police officer cohorts and the judges and attorneys that they protect to be above the law. That would reveal too much to the people reading this webpage. But, he does so covertly admit. See immediately below.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Monday, September 27, 1999 at 22:06:46 (MDT)
Alec wrote: "Don't I remember him saying in his last comeback to me of September 25, 1999 that he wasn't going to respond to me anymore?"
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Monday, September 27, 1999 at 17:46:59 (MDT)
Once again, R/I/R must have the last word. Don't I remember him saying in his last comeback to me of September 25, 1999 that he wasn't going to respond to me anymore? Let me guess, he lied about that also. Of course, as usual, his entire response is nothing but cheap comebacks and none of it in any manner refutes my evidence.
Alec, a few quick things:
1) By chance, are you the guy that calls up the AM talk-radio stations all the time claiming that John Lennon was murdered by Stephen King? The last part of your recent post is why I'm asking that question.
This is, as usual, a deliberately misleading and irrevelant statement if I ever heard one. R/I/R seems to want to read and quote only that that will suit his purposes of misleading, confusing and enslaving people, regardless of whether what he is reading or quoting is real or not. But,
to bring back reality, I will repeat a little of what I said last time: (1) I said that the late Mr. Lennon's son, Mr. Julian Lennon, claims that the CIA murdered his father, (2) I never mentioned Stephen King in my last posting at all, and (3) I am not in the business of calling up radio
stations and spilling out absurdities such as what R/I/R brought forth just now.
2)You are obviously a person who knows nothing about case law decisions, as well as the "spirit of the law" and how it applies itself in real life.
Correction. R/I/R is obviously a person who knows nothing about case law decisions, as well as the "spirit of the law" and how it applies itself in real life. Speaking of case law, all of it since Erie v. Tompkins (1938)
is suspect, and most of that is provably corrupt and needs to discarded ASAP, along with the judges and attorneys who produced it.
You quote all of these laws like everything is followed in black and white just becuase it's written.
What a cheap comeback and a cop-out statement! I am dead certain that R/I/R believes that only attorneys do not make the "mistake of quoting all of these laws like everything is followed in black and white just because it's written." Doesn't R/I/R's attitude about law here remind you of:
"If you go to an attorney and ask what two times two is, the attorney will stop, ponder the question for a moment and then say 'what do you want it to be?'" So, R/I/R believes that law should be nothing other than what
judges, attorneys, and police decide at the moment that it will be. R/I/R seems to forget that the United States is required to be a republic. Bear in mind that what judges, attorneys and police decide at the moment is always ultimately subject to their whims and is often very detrimental to whoever they may be happening to make the decision for at the time. Does anyone remember the threat that R/I/R made to me in his last posting? If you combine what R/I/R just said above with that threat, you should be
able to draw the following conclusion:
What is and isn't a crime is what the whims of judges, attorneys and police believe it to be at the moment and you had better be pleasing to their whims at all times or they will come and physically assault, batter and kidnap you under color of law and fabricated "charges." Of course, having to be pleasing to their whims at all times leaves you no room to have a life, so you remain in perpetual slavery and abject misery.
Doesn't this sound like a police state, only worse? I challenge R/I/R to prove what he just said about me. He will never be able to because what he just said are his whims speaking, the whims of his police officer cohorts
and the whims of the court officer criminals (judges and attorneys) that he and his cohorts are protecting. Remember that people can act in bad faith, such as (read his past postings) R/I/R is doing now. I believe that it is
common knowledge that attorneys, and especially prosecuting attorneys, routinely act in bad faith. Judges consistently do as well, but it seems that that is harder for the average person to see, probably because they are more intimidating to the average person and thus blind the average person as to what their true intentions are. In case the people reading this are still skeptical, they can find more evidence here.
There is the fantasy-land of reading the law books, and there is the reality of actually applying those laws in real life. I'm just telling you this since you obviously live in fantasy-land. Basically, you don't know what you're talking about. And there is no way I'm going to take the time to justify why. There isn't room for two people in your strange little world.
What R/I/R is really trying to say here is: "you are a whacko in fantasy-land if you refuse to even, for a moment, comtemplate not being pleasing to the whims of judges, attorneys and police and there isn't room for you and us in this universe together since we are so greedy that we
want everything, including your spirit and soul!" R/I/R won't "take to time to justify why" because he can't. R/I/R has no legal or moral grounds to stand on. The rest of his comeback above are deliberately misleading statements to confuse people about what he really is and to make him sound more "official."
Good attempt at reading the law books though, and thinking that I'm guilty of not acting upon all of these arrests. Retired police officers don't fall under the same legal obligations, so I am not required to act upon anything.
Just another cop-out. If R/I/R can argue with me here on this webpage, then he certainly has an obligation to act on the evidence I have to date presented.
Furthermore, before I got injured on-duty and I was still working full-time, none of the information that you spoke of is accurate.
to R/I/R: prove this last assertion. I know you can't, considering that I have proven just the opposite. Unfortunately, instead of doing your job you will no doubt continue to further ongoing fraud and treason against the
people of this country.
If you knew anything about case law, you would know this.
Remember what I said above about case law being corrupt?
Again, you live in a fantasy world, thinking that you're some kind of fancy, high paid lawyer.
Once again it is the old line of: "the law should be nothing other than what judges, attorneys, and police decide at the moment that it will be." And, according to R/I/R that is, anyone else who quotes the law is "a
whacko, a nut, a kook or a criminal." Of course, as always, R/I/R forgets that the United States is a required to be a republic. You can see the details regarding that here.
You need help---do you understand? Listen, if you want to get help but don't want to talk about it on the list, then e-mail me offline. That's a real address that is posted. I will gladly refer you to free psychiatric services in your area. It doesn't even have to be a "shrink"---it could just be a counselor. Contact me if you're interested and I will help.
And again, R/I/R couldn't resist taking that cheap shot at me of me "needing psychiatric help." Interesting though how "I only need a counselor now instead of a shrink." What absurdities will his warped mind come up with
next? And, considering the threat he made to me in his posting of September 25, 1999, any attempt to contact him, even by email, would be dangerous, and could give him just the excuse that he needs to justify an armed aggression and fabricated "charges" against me, if he was in the mood to do
so at the time. I think I'll pass on that one! Yet, by looking at the way he is behaving now and seeing that this behavior is totally inconsistent with that of someone who just threatened me, I am beginning to believe that he needs psychiatric help, for schizophrenia!
Retired/Injured Cop >User3665@aol.com<
Bay Area, CA USA - Monday, September 27, 1999 at 05:47:28 (MDT)
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Monday, September 27, 1999 at 15:38:35 (MDT)
Alec, a few quick things:
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Monday, September 27, 1999 at 05:47:28 (MDT)
Steve, in my latest posting, there is a blockquote begin tag that is supposed to be a blockqoute end tag and it is affecting the rest of your guestbook. Could you please correct it for me. I thought my computer had saved the corrections that I had made but it didn't. My apologies for the inconvenience.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Monday, September 27, 1999 at 04:13:08 (MDT)
Once again, in his posting of Saturday, September 25, 1999 at 20:49:13 (MDT), R/I/R must have the last word and this time, he is putting words in my mouth and tries to make me out to be a threat to him, with the hope perhaps of creating an armed aggression against me under color of law.
I take that as a personal threat to me. Unfortunately, since the
government in this country does not serve the people, I have little or no
recourse other than exposure of the facts to as many people as possible,
to protect myself from his threats.
Alec: You continue to write absolute garbage, and I'm not going to respond
to it any more. As I said, I tried but you're just beyond hope. So don't
worry about me "having the last word" because I know that is a serious
concern of yours.
It is a serious concern of mine because he, as well as his police officer
cohorts, are deliberately misleading and confusing
people in an attempt to protect ongoing fraud, treason, etc. that the
government is committing against the people of this country. In my past
postings, I have provided ample evidence to prove this point so I won't
repeat it here.
However, the reason I am writing is because of one thing you wrote in your
last posting:
R/I/R is trying to make it out as if I would do the "gunning down." Of
course, that is a lie and, based on R/I/R's past postings to this site
showing his pattern of bad faith, I believe it to be a deliberate one.
Yo you fuckin pigs, I wanna see you all dead. You fuckin' shitters keep
talkin' about this fuckin' "american constitution" an all that shit. It's
all a fuckin illusion, there is no fucking constitution. Enough innocent
people have been fucked over for speaking their mind in the us. This dosen't
even happen in the communist countries. I hope you all get a violent ending
to your shit half lives. You only joined the pigs 'cause you couldn't get
another job. None of you fuckers are innocent. You are all fuckin' pigs and
you deserve to die painfully. A bullet in the head is too good for you
cunts. I want to work you over with a metal bar, an' shoot your fucking
jaw out of your fucking head. Then I'm gonna go a rape all yo wives and
kill em all. Burn in hell motherfuckers, Fuckin mad p.s. yes threaten me
all you like, because that's what you fuckers always do to those who
excercise the "constitution" by speaking their mind. Fuck America...
Dr. Watson
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 16:57:32 (MDT)
That message generated the following response on Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at
06:48:40 (MDT):
Dr. Watson, you are being ridiculous.
I'll tell you one thing to help you come back to reality. If you kill a cop
when I'm around, I'm going to try to kill YOU. In your dreamworld, you may
think you're a hero for killing cops, but to most people, you will just look
like a murderer. We humans are pretty fucked up, but one thing we
instictively react to very strongly is a murderer in our presence.
...which is probably a big part of why copkiller.org exists. just get your
head on straight and stop talking shit. and if you're such a tough guy,
then post your email address and stop hiding in anonymity.
and relax, for chrissakes. why are you so pissed off at the police anyways?
i'm not saying your anger is wrong, just your reaction to the anger.
Robert
R/I/R never did respond in any manner to that message. But, he most
certainly did immediately respond to my latest posting when I attempted to
spread, to other people, evidence about what he is and what the implications
are for him. Furthermore, R/I/R had been attacking my character since the
time of my 2nd posting that I had made to this guestbook. So, it appears
that R/I/R will not attack those who waste their
time bellyaching. Yet, he will, at the first opportunity, immediately
attack anyone who is spreading evidence about who and what he, and his
police officer cohorts, are, in an attempt to suppress that evidence, and,
if possible, in an attempt to take out those who are spreading the
evidence. Obviously, his ultimate goal is to deny the people any kind of
justice for the crimes he and his police officer cohorts are committing
against the people.
We both live in California, and I know my laws very well.
If R/I/R knows his laws so well, then what about California Penal Code,
Section 142, where he is obligated to arrest any person charged with a crime,
whoever that might be. In my posting of Thursday, July 15, 1999 at
19:55:42 (MDT), I gave R/I/R legal evidence proving ongoing crimes being
committed by the officers of the government in the United States and
told him to act on it. He refused.
"Judges threaten you with
contempt of court and arrest, you try to go to court for a citizen's arrest
against the DA of LA County. I will say this again---if you don't see the
absolute craziness in what you are doing, then I give up. Your mind is too
far gone."
In fact, based on his reaction as a whole to the formal
statement I posted that day, under Section 32 of the California Penal Code,
he could be considered an accessory after the fact to all of the crimes
brought forth by that formal statement. Of course, R/I/R refuses to even
acknowledge these points, or to fulfill his duties.
You can write whatever you want about anything you want, but be
very careful about crossing that line.
If I can write whatever I want about anything I want, freedom of speech
making it all legal of course, how can there be a "line to cross?"
Unless of course, the
government never does intend to uphold the people's right to freedom of
speech, says it does so only to keep the people deceived about its real
intentions, and will take down, at its earliest opportunity, whoever is
exercising their right to freedom of speech to attack the government for
what it really is.
If I need to get a restraining order against you, I will. If I need to have
you physically arrested, I will. You have so thoughtfully provided the
world with your full name and address, so tracking you down is very simple.
Considering that people have made actual threats to me on numerous occasions
(one example was given above) and that I asked for prosecution every time
without results, R/I/R being able to do this is evidence that the court
system is biased in his favor, and suggests that the court system is biased
in favor of police in general, especially police who protect it and the
crimes it commits against the people. Regarding my address, notice that I
stand behind everything I say.
I will not come after you personally, nor is this to be taken as any such
threat as I would never do that.
As far as his statement here is concerned, it is merely a coverup attempt
to disguise from anyone reading this what his true intentions towards me
are. The facts are that R/I/R doesn't need to come after me personally.
I am sure that plenty of his police officer cohorts and any of his so called
deputy prosecuting attorney buddies would be willing to the dirty work for
him, under color of law and with fabricated "charges" of course.
Nonetheless, his intent is exactly the
same as if he wanted to personally come after me to do me in and I
personally take his threat against me, as such, seriously. Let me further
add that I know of him only through an email address and don't even want
to bother to find out anything further about his whereabouts, yet, he is
already talking about hunting me down for "alledged crimes."
Unfortunately, unlike
what he claims, I have no recourse with the government to protect myself
from his threat considering that he would be using the government to carry
out his threat against me. Does anyone see how this could, and probably
has, happened to them? Does everyone see why I can truthfully call this
government "the fraud that calls itself our public government?" My
experience has shown that the best defense against an attack like is to
inform as many disinterested third parties as possible, preferably all
of them mainstream prominent people in the community they live in. The one
thing that the officers of the fraud that calls itself our public government
fear most is exposure for what they really are to people who are capable of
making them account for their actions against the people of this country.
Unfortunately, it is impossible to know beforehand just how much exposure
is enough to cause the fraud that calls itself our public government to
leave you alone and get out of your life. That is a large part of what
makes the fraud that calls itself our public government so dangerous. Most
people who are attacked by it can't create enough exposure against it to
make it release them and, thus, get deprived of property, life and limb by
it.
However, I am giving you a courtesy warning that you are beginning
to step into the area of criminal behavior. When you make a threat like
that, and the recipient takes it seriously (as I am), that is a clear
felony.
Stated in other words, R/I/R is saying that, based on his whims, how he
chooses to interpret the law at that moment, and how he
feels at the moment is what determines whether or not something that someone
writes to or says to him is a crime or not. Does everyone see that that
practice is terrifying, and illegal? Does everyone see that R/I/R intends
to reserve that practice to only himself, his police officer cohorts, and to
the criminals that they are protecting?
As far as the so-called "libel" against you, oh please. Get a life. This
guestbook is for opinions, and people can write whatever they want as long
as it's legal.
Indeed, R/I/R can write anything about me that he likes, and all of it is
legal, from the criminal point of view, that is. Libel is
a civil matter and not a criminal one. Personally, at this point, I don't
care, considering that I have lost no valuable property or anything of the
like as a result of his libel. The only reason that I even brought up the
issue of his libel against me was because it further proves
the type of person that he is and the fact that he has, and is continuing
to, commit ongoing fraud and treason against the people of this country.
I haven't called you any names---I've just called you what I believe you to
be.
Now, this statement is a contradiction if I ever heard one. And, for a
belief, namely his claim that "I need psychiatric help," he really is pushing
extremely hard on it. Read his past postings. Of course, his perception
of me is entirely in his head and, based on the facts brought forth, is
completely out of touch with reality. But, then again, the entire so called
mental health and psychiatric "profession" in this country is completely out
of touch with reality, and quite a bit out of control.
However, if you want to talk about libel, how about
you calling me a liar, retarded, a secret agent, etc, etc.? I don't take
this stuff personally from a nut like you, so it doesn't bother me a bit.
I'm simply pointing out that it's very interesting for you to mention
libel. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black.
Retired/Injured Cop
R/I/R seems to forget that a necessary condition for a statement to be libel
is proof that the person writing the statement consciously know that the
statement was false at the time that the statement was written. Every one
of my assertions and accusations against R/I/R has been backed up by
evidence that I supplied before the fact. In addition, I gave R/I/R every
chance to come clean and act on the evidence before I was forced to draw any
conclusion about him that led to the accusations I now make against him.
Thus, my statements about him are not libel.
"I checked out your web page, and it was more
legal-ese than I care to read. But I did notice you were quoting law
decisions from the 1920's and the 1930's. Surely that's not your "evidence"
that you go to court with is it? If so, my God, no wonder you get kicked out
of court. Think about it."
...in no manner constitute a rebuttal of the evidence that I have brought
forth.
I can tell you from personal experience that is somebody comes to me (as a
police officer) ranting and raving like a lunatic, throwing things out like
"Constitution" and court cases and other things that you mentioned in your
post, I will not really listen to what you are saying. I will basically just
hear "blah blah blah blah".
...you, no doubt, have subverted that oath. Do you realize that that makes
you a domestic enemy of the United States Constitution?
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Monday, September 27, 1999 at 04:03:21 (MDT)
R/I:
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Monday, September 27, 1999 at 03:53:50 (MDT)
Citizen: Yes. California has had this law ever since I've been in police work (13 years). I forget the exact reference number for the code, but it falls under the "Welfare and Institutions" code. Whenever a person is taken on a 72 hour hold (not arrested, nor charged with a crime, but taken to an emergency psychiatric facility), all of their weapons are automatically confiscated. They are taken per 5150 W&I, and then on the back of that form there is a box to check indicating that weapons were taken. The weapons are only taken for a short period---I believe it's 10 days but I forget now. After that 10 day period (or whatever period it is), all weapons are returned to the person.
Retired/Injured COp <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, September 26, 1999 at 19:39:11 (MDT)
NY Times, 09/26/1999:
... starting next month, Connecticut police will be allowed to confiscate guns from anyone determined to be an immediate danger to himself or others. The law is rooted in the notion that rampages such as Beck's are preceded by a detectable descent into madness.
Hmmm ... interesting concept. Got anything like that in California, there, R/I/R ?
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Sunday, September 26, 1999 at 14:25:38 (MDT)
i am glad you are back up, I have been talking about your site frequently on mine, as to the bullshit, and if you need some webspace, let me know.
kenny <root@hektik.com>
USA - Sunday, September 26, 1999 at 00:52:35 (MDT)
Alec: You continue to write absolute garbage, and I'm not going to respond to it any more. As I said, I tried but you're just beyond hope. So don't worry about me "having the last word" because I know that is a serious concern of yours.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, September 25, 1999 at 20:49:13 (MDT)
As I said, R/I/R feels he must always have the last word, no matter how stupid it might be. The police are, in fact, working in secret as foreign agents of the Federal Reserve. Find the proof here. The California DMV, in fact, has no license to do business in the State of California and hence, in its entirety, by its own rules, is an illegal agency committing organized crime on an ongoing basis. Ira Reiner is a proven criminal. Two instances of clear bribery, one instance of clear accessory to theft and two clear instances of Grand Jury tampering are certainly enough to prove him a criminal, considering that the common person would be put away for just one such incident. I could go on.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Saturday, September 25, 1999 at 19:36:13 (MDT)
I've got just a couple of quick things to comment on. First of all, in regards to Alec's statement (in his posting below), he says the following: ".......go out and physically arrest, etc. all of these so called cops, including R/I/R.......".
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, September 25, 1999 at 07:11:07 (MDT)
So, Steve's website is back up I see. Excellent.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Saturday, September 25, 1999 at 03:31:09 (MDT)
R/I/R: You are either dumb, incompetent, or just plain lying. You clearly can't read. Take care.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Friday, September 24, 1999 at 18:16:53 (MDT)
Citizen Target: I give up. I tried my best to have a decent discussion with you, and to even help to find out what sort of wrongs were done against you by the police. But the sky is definitely a different color on your planet. Take care.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Friday, September 24, 1999 at 17:30:55 (MDT)
R/I/R wrote:
Why do you think you're so much above the law?
No where, in anything I ever wrote, today, yesterday, or tomorrow, did I ever make such a claim.
... if approached by a person carrying on about "case law", the Constitution, court decisions, blah blah blah. Here it is, plain and simple: You are looked at as a whacko.
I was obeying the three court orders in my possession specifically and obeying the law generally. Wonderful, that makes me a 'whacko'. I disagreed with an outlandish order to 'leave the property'. I didn't know the 'officer'. The 'officer' was not in uniform. The 'officer' had no 'cruiser'. The 'officer' testified in court he had all those things.
Q.(attorney to 'officer')... after you identified the suspect as (Citizen_Target) and after you realized no crime had occurred or was in progress and after you realized (Citizen_Target) had a right to be there; why didn't you just leave ?
If, R/I/R, you can't see the 'officers' intent, the 'officers' motivation from that 'officers' simple reply to a direct question, then you are either dumb, incompetent, or just plain lying. If, R/I/R, you can't see the 'officers' flimsy probable cause, fabricated before or after the incident (certainly not during), vis a vis, probable car theft, probable trespassing, probable breaking and entering, then you are either dumb, incompetent, or just plain lying.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Friday, September 24, 1999 at 11:03:42 (MDT)
Citizen Target writes: "No one approaches a police officer ... no one; but that will always be your story, won't it ?
Retired/Injured Cop <User 3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Friday, September 24, 1999 at 07:39:05 (MDT)
Retired/Injured/Retarded wrote, 'many weeks ago':
... if approached by a person carrying on about "case law", the Constitution, court decisions, blah blah blah. Here it is, plain and simple: You are looked at as a whacko.
No one approaches a police officer ... no one; but that will always be your story, won't it ?
... I really have no idea what you're talking about.
Gee, at my trial, the alleged officer gave that answer over 15 times ... and a few others ... like "I didn't see that" or "I don't recall" or "... it didn't happen".
... but out of nowhere, you're suddenly going nuts.
More stock 'police testimony'. Care to guess how many times in Steve's list of 36+ kills the officers testified " ... the actor went nuts" or "the actor was a whacko" ?
It sounds to me like you have a mission in life to make things difficult for yourself.
No. That's your mission in life ... and your fellow officers.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Thursday, September 23, 1999 at 22:37:18 (MDT)
To "Teh Editor": You better be careful what sort of comments you make towards me. Remember, good old "Alec" thinks that we are part of a subversive team that is out to get him. Revealing our secret communications in public like this would just confirm for him that we really are conspiring secretly to hassle him. Remember, I'm the cop who got seriously injured while faithfully and respectfully serving the citizens of my city. I've got to keep up this "front" and not let him know the "real me"---the real guy that is out to get people like "Alec". After all, it's what I live for. (Alec and similar people---if you take this seriously, then you really are messed up and are WAY beyond hope. For the record, I'm being sarcastic here. Okay?).
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, September 23, 1999 at 07:28:30 (MDT)
Citizen Target wrote: "Fuck you, Retired." "Fuck you, Retired, ... just Fuck You." "So, fuck you, Retired, ... , just Fuck You."
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, September 23, 1999 at 07:22:29 (MDT)
Citizen Target wrote: "Gee, Retired, I thought maybe that was why you left ... or was it because you thought you had shut down Steve's
site forever ?"
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, September 23, 1999 at 07:08:36 (MDT)
Wow! I sure din't miss much.
Disgusted
USA - Monday, September 20, 1999 at 19:08:02 (MDT)
I am a cop from Sydney Australia, home of the 2000 Olympics, do you
know where Austrlaia [sic] is, you fucking inbread [sic] piece of shit ?
[That's that little nation of convicts from the
British Isles, right? --steve] I looked at your site and I give
everyone a fair chance, I read yours and I am of the belief that you suck
arse. If you were here and were known by police in this state you would
last about 5 seconds MATE. If I knew you your face [my pictures are plastered all over my site. Perhaps if you
spent less time fucking kangaroos and more time investigating things, you
would have seen them. --steve] you would be the target on your
stupid photo's [sic] as opposed to some poor cop's face.
clint <clintchorley@hotmail.com>
sydney , nsw australia - Monday, September 20, 1999 at 02:09:21 (MDT)
Alec wrote:
... , whenever you attempt to get remedy against the power elite, it is no problem for the power elite to simply change the law.
To which I add ... or simply ignore it.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Sunday, September 19, 1999 at 09:55:33 (MDT)
Wonderful. All the morons have checked in now except Tiny Minded Tim and Pickup Truck Dan.
... if approached by a person carrying on about "case law", the Constitution, court decisions, blah blah blah. Here it is, plain and simple: You are looked at as a whacko.
Fuck you, Retired.
... did notice you were quoting law decisions from the 1920's and the 1930's. Surely that's not your "evidence" that you go to court with is it?
Wonderful. The Constitution is old (circa 1787); throw that out. Taft Hartley is old (circa 1938), just throw that out, too. Witness a US SEC filing dated August 13, 1999, where it says:
This filing is made
Be my guest: Tell the Director of the Securities and Exchange Commission he's a whacko. Check out Title 18, USC, and look at the abundance of 'old laws' cited page after page after page. Be my guest: Tell Janet Reno she's a whacko.
pursuant to Rule
424(b)(1) under the
Securities Act of 1933
in connection with
Registration No.
333-80543
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Friday, September 17, 1999 at 09:49:42 (MDT)
Isn't it odd how Stevie's web page keeps going up and down. [Let's see...it went "down" one time (and it was actually
still up, I just renamed the main page and wrote a temporary index.html).
So what, exactly, are you babbling about? --steve] Just stopped in
to see what I might have missed over the last couple
of month's. Obviously not very much. Alec, I read your comments about me
which you posted on August 05. Did you remember to take your medicine
today? You know how you get when you miss a day. And one wonders why I
don't leave my email address. [Because you're a
coward? --steve] I get enough trash mail sent to me, I
don't need to hear it on a daily basis from people like Alec. It's
enough for me to pop in here every couple of month's and see what he has
to say. Retired---keep the faith. Maybe I will have that beer after
all.
'Teh Editor'
USA - Friday, September 17, 1999 at 00:50:03 (MDT)
Gee, Retired, I thought maybe that was why you left ... or was it because you thought you had shut down Steve's site forever ?
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, PA USA - Wednesday, September 15, 1999 at 19:14:27 (MDT)
By the way, has anybody noticed that my previous statement a few months ago has come true---exactly as I said it would? Most of the "fuck the pigs" and other immature things that were being said on here have suddenly stopped now that school is back in session. It confirms what I already knew--most of the garbage on here is from kids sitting at home at their computer with nothing better to do. How sad.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, September 11, 1999 at 13:34:34 (MDT)
"amarysback@aol.com" wrote: WHILE CONDUCTING YOUR FLIPPIN' RACIAL
PROFILING
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, September 11, 1999 at 13:31:40 (MDT)
FOR ALL YOU SORRY ASS MOTHERFUCKERS WHO DONT LIKE THE USA AND THE
WAYS IT ENFORCES ITS LAWS THEN I SUGGEST YOU FUCKIN LEAVE. ["I care about it too / I think I love it more than
you / I care enough to fight the stars and stripes / Of
corruption" --Dead Kennedys]THERES ENOUGH OF YOU FUCK UPS OUT
THERE AND WE DONT NEED ANYMORE OF YOU. AND ANOTHER THING, RODNEY KING
DESERVED TO GET HIS CRACK HEAD ASS BEAT.
Big t <fucku@bitch.com>
fuckoff, FU pakistan - Thursday, August 26, 1999 at 14:57:26 (MDT)
Joseph,
Retired/Injured cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Monday, August 16, 1999 at 01:47:10 (MDT)
Go to God Hates Fags to learn why Matthew Shepard is burning in Hell.
[Better yet, call Jim Phelps's (Jim is the
hypocrite piece of shit Christian scumbag who owns
godhatesfags.com) brother Ben at 785-233-4162 and ask him what his
problem is. --steve]
Joseph Mengele <mengelejoseph@hotmail.com>
Mesa, Az. USA - Sunday, August 15, 1999 at 12:24:20 (MDT)
Alec: Listen guy, you are so incredibly "out there" with your so called "evidence" that I'm actually surprising myself that I'm taking the time to respond. If I was still working before being injured on-duty while faithfully serving the citizens of my city, I would not have the time to sit at this computer and respond to such things. But, because of my unfortunate situation, I do have the time. I will try to lay it out, crystal clear, one more time.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, August 05, 1999 at 23:54:02 (MDT)
Retired/Injured Cop, User3665@aol.com quoted several of my statements, all of which demand immediate attention by anyone concerned about what the United States is now and, worse, what it is rapidly becoming. But, never did he address or rebut the truth of any of those statements.
Instead, he then wrote:
"...I think those are enough quotes for all to understand where Alec is
coming from. Alec--please get counseling before you hurt someone.
The longer you let this go, the more dilusional you will get.
Life's too short."
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Thursday, August 05, 1999 at 21:25:10 (MDT)
Alec wrote:
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, August 05, 1999 at 18:58:15 (MDT)
This posting is directed to everyone who visits this website who still cares about the United States and where it is headed, in the hopes that it will awaken them to the desperate situation of the American people today. I am covering several topics in this posting and all of them are crucial, and all of them are long, so please bear with me. And, please read this entire posting. I hope the way it is formatted makes it more understandable.
Firstly, he attempts to pass off the police as legitimate, overworked and decent people who are being unjustly maligned by an insensitive community they supposedly serve well. Sometimes, as in his posting of July 28, 1999
at 19:33:05 (MDT), he even appears to express real concern for and understanding of the absolutely horrible events occuring nowadays. The following are the more juicy of his verbatim statements (there are many more besides these) upon which I base this conclusion:
"I have to disagree with this. A blanket statement like that, saying that a 'bad cop' will do anything, including murder, to get an item of property from a citizen is, in my opinion, a fairly reckless and careless statement to make. If you want to look strictly at percentages, I would bet that the police as a profession have the highest ethics and morality than that of any other profession in the USA."
"Remember, a police officer can only stop somebody with probable cause. If an officer stops you, you have done something to create probable cause..."
'Teh Editor'
USA - Thursday, July 15, 1999 at 22:23:27 (MDT)"
(Italics added for emphasis).
"If you are convinced that your 'evidence' is so strong, you don't need me to make the arrest---do it yourself. If you don't want to physically make the arrest yourself, then forward your information to the district attorney requesting a warrant. If you know the laws of the land as you seem to preach, then you already know this." Him making these statements means all of the following: (1) it calls into question the service he provides the people, since if the people he is supposed to serve can take action on their own then why is he necessary?; (2) he ignored everything I had already posted about the court system; and, (3) he ignored the
fact that I lack the means to bring the criminals who are destroying the United States to trial for their crimes, whereas he, being part of the police, doesn't.
There were the 2 complainants and 6 witnesses (uninvolved parties) present. The court was Torrance Superior court and the individual presiding was Mr. Abraham Gorenfeld, a court commissioner who flatly stated for the record: "I am not a judge." He further stated: "I am not a magistrate."
The document before Mr. Gorenfeld was a felony complaint against the then Governor and then Attorney General of California, and the then Los Angeles County District Attorney. Mr. Gorenfeld all but ran out of
the courtroom. Mr. Gorenfeld had to sign the transcript. Directly below his signature line, it stated: "Judge of the Superior Court." This transcript, and the felony complaint, are both available as evidence, as well as 4 of the original 6 witnesses (uninvolved parties).
The witness has further evidence to prove that, whenever you attempt to get remedy against the power elite, it is no problem for the power elite to simply change the law.
MOmountie, USA;
Police Officer, York, PA USA;
Bryan, USA;
DJ
spencer, Rochester, NY USA;
andrew, Mi USA;
Don S;
Dan, USA;
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Thursday, August 05, 1999 at 16:32:04 (MDT)
i like what you're doing, keep it up
p.s. i was beat by a chicken shit cop, now i'm out to get em
citizen kain
ne USA - Tuesday, August 03, 1999 at 14:45:04 (MDT)
Citizen: I don't know if you saw it, but last week's "USA Today" newspaper (July 29) has a big article entitled, "More law enforcers becoming lawbreakers". It specifically talks about Clevland PD, which I thought was interesting. Apparently **49** police officers and jail guards were convicted last year of accepting drug money to protect drug shipments. To me, that's an astonishing number. The one thing I would be interested in seeing is exactly how many of those were cops, and how many were jail guards. In the city i worked, the county jail was run by a civilian "Dept of Correction", and the jail guards were NOT sheriff's deputies. The job screening requirements for a deputy sheriff are MUCH more strict and thorough than those for a DOC jail guard. In my area, it would not surprise me a bit to see the jail guards getting caught doing stuff like that. Actually, those kinds of news articles appear all the time. But out of the police or sheriff's dept? No way---not around here. I just can't imagine living in a city where 49 (approx) of it's cops were arrested AND convicted of those charges. If 49 can do it, that means that there were probably 5 officers for every 1 that accepted (maybe higher). So there are 245 cops that have knowledge of the drug protection. And if they know it, so do their partners and other co-workers. How can a department have that much corruption running through it? I can understand corruption running through the White House like it is now, but those politicians don't go through the screening process that the cops go through. Well, that tells me a lot about the Clevland PD. They must have a very high number of corrup cops there for that to happen.
Retired/Injured cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Tuesday, August 03, 1999 at 02:43:03 (MDT)
Stevie Boy is a FAGGOT. Those against the police should be shot in the streets and left there to ROT! P.S. HONEY IM HOME!
Tim
USA - Sunday, August 01, 1999 at 22:59:32 (MDT)
Your such a pussy. Sign other peoples guestbooks with racist material and claim your against it. You pussy..what a fucking loser.HAHA
Adam
Il USA - Sunday, August 01, 1999 at 22:39:53 (MDT)
Retired/Injured:
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Sunday, August 01, 1999 at 04:57:41 (MDT)
Retired/Injured:
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Sunday, August 01, 1999 at 04:40:54 (MDT)
Retired/Injured wrote:
" ... I could plan a trip there and ..."
Not recommended.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Sunday, August 01, 1999 at 04:30:01 (MDT)
Citizen: Have there been any news article or anything similar that I can search for on the Internet that talk about the police in your area? I would like to do some reading up on the problems where you live. If things are really that bad, I'm retired now and have plenty of time and money on my hands. I could plan a trip there and set up my rental car with video and recording equipment to see what happens when I get pulled over. The things that you are saying about the police there are VERY serious claims, and if the problems are that huge and the police are so incredibly corrupt in an entire county, then that requires action and maybe even civil disobedience in a calm, peaceful manner. I would be more than willing to take this on. But I need to read some facts before committing the time and money to it.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com >
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, July 31, 1999 at 17:05:33 (MDT)
You have some very good points, made in a (usually) intelligent,
calm, concise manner. Perhaps if you got rid of the senseless,
imflammatory blurbs, quotes (i.e. song lyrics), etc, your opinions
might carry more weight with the general public. A rational debate or
a forum for opinions does not need name-calling and blanket statements.
You do say that there are good cops but most people do not get that far on
your site, having been turned off by the "kill 'em all" quotes at the beginning.
In my opinion, this is just not a good way to get your message out. Just a suggestion,
of course.
Thanks.
A Guest
USA - Saturday, July 31, 1999 at 17:00:00 (MDT)
Retired/Injured wrote:
... , there are still a hell of a lot of good cops out there working their tails off to keep the public safe.
I DO try to remember that, although, as soon as I return to my own county, township, and municipality ... for my own protection, that thought becomes furthest from my mind.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Saturday, July 31, 1999 at 09:44:23 (MDT)
Citizen: You're exactly right--I did not correctly understand the part about the fine being paid for the violation. I made an incorrect assumption that it was referring to the courtesy notice for the warrant, not that the defendant had already sent in the money to cover the fine for the infraction but apparently had not made it there in a normal amount of time. My apologies for that. The author of the original statement is correct, as you are, that no warrant should have been issued if the fine had already been sent in but it did not make it there through no fault of his own. Just as a sidenote to this, I usually suggested to people that I issued a citation to that they might want to either deliver the bail amount in person to traffic court, or send it via certified mail. Since it involves legal stuff that could effect your driving rights or even an arrest warrant, it's not the best idea to depend on regular first class mail. That's just my 2 cents worth on that....
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, July 31, 1999 at 03:30:50 (MDT)
Retired/Injured:
" ... The fact, and evidence, that the warrant was in error was not admissible at trial. "
My reading of this statement is: the warrant was admitted. The postmark and the magistrate testimony that the fine was already paid was not admitted. As I understand it, defendant mailed his money to pay the fine, it arrived late at the magistrate, assuming it arrived late at all. No warrant should have been issued. The postmark predated the warrant.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Friday, July 30, 1999 at 09:43:38 (MDT)
Citizen: Again, you post some very interesting and specific items. I was just getting ready to finally shut off my 'puter, but I wanted to check this site one more time tonight. Well, I guess I'm not going to bed like I thought---I can't without first responding to the last few posts.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Friday, July 30, 1999 at 02:05:20 (MDT)
Here's an excerpt from a Newsgroup called alt.true-crime:
My neighbor, a few blocks away, was relaxing after an evening meal, sat down to read the paper. I was visiting, and watching TV.
There are literally thousands of cases similar to this and you can read them in a law library near you; assuming they haven't closed the law library to the public in your neighborhood. If they have closed the law library in your neighborhood from public use, usually located in the court house, you might try a law library at a nearby university. University law libraries, while generally not open to the public, normally do not refuse the public. I've been treated most kindly by a number of such libraries. In addition, many law libraries have quite a bit of case law on-line. There are many many links to law libraries across the country. Clearly, the great volume of precedent and case law is not on-line. But there is plenty and it is sufficient.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Friday, July 30, 1999 at 00:05:30 (MDT)
This is Jeff Cooperstein, author of the famous Blue Knight Web Page.
Officer Jeff says "... there are only two kinds of people: police and
criminals. All the rest haven't been convicted yet."
A. "A guy looked at me, so I killed him.".
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Thursday, July 29, 1999 at 23:09:02 (MDT)
Retired/Injured wrote:
Anyway, thank you for giving specific info like this.
My pleasure. Steve gave us 36+ kills and I found 50 others before I got sick, threw up, and terminated (temporarily) my research ... and believe it, I do know how to research. I don't just read the funny papers.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Thursday, July 29, 1999 at 23:03:29 (MDT)
Citizen: Thanks for the welcome back from vacation----it was my first attempt at leaving home since the surgery. I was nervous, but it worked out somewhat okay after all. It was great to get away....finally.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, July 29, 1999 at 05:10:02 (MDT)
I've had a few conversations with Retired/Injured Cop (outside this guestbook) and he DOES have GENUINE concerns regarding the friction between the public and police, and is interested in hearing what "the other side" has to say (something that the other police don't seem to want to do).
Disgusted
USA - Thursday, July 29, 1999 at 02:59:13 (MDT)
Retired/Injured:
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 23:24:32 (MDT)
Retired/Injured:
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 20:58:16 (MDT)
Ross----I just read that article on the computer monitoring system that was in the New York Times. Thanks for posting that. I'm surprised that an article like that made it into the paper. There's always a reason behind things, and we don't know what the reason is that they decided to tell people about that. But there are already systems in place that do pretty much the same thing. The federal government does LOTS of illegal surveillance things---I'm sure you would not be shocked if you were told what some of them are. Just like Orwell's book, "1984", we are working more and more towards that every day. And again, the citizens don't care. They will chain themselves to a redwood tree to save it from being sawed down, or attack a fishing boat---and these things make front page news. Yet the country and our freedoms are slipping through our hands while certain politicians get paid LOTS of money to be quiet. And still, nobody cares. One day (sooner than later), the nation will wake up and say "My God, how did we let this happen to us?". Well, it's happening RIGHT NOW, yet do you see anybody demanding answers and demanding justice from our elected representatives? Of course not----because the citizens have big bank accounts from doing so well on Wall Street. It's actually a brilliant plan--too brilliant, because it's working out beautifully for them.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 19:33:05 (MDT)
Wow--I leave for vacation for a few days and come back to all sorts of postings on here! For now, I would just like to respond to a few of the comments.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area , CA USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 19:16:29 (MDT)
All three of these men are murderers. All three are protected, defended
and served by the 'men in Blue'.
Two are cops. One, and only one, of these men has balls.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 12:32:27 (MDT)
Ross:
Scary article, re: "U.S. Drafting Plan for Computer Monitoring System".
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 12:26:14 (MDT)
I'm back, or something. Although this is not Echelon, this is similar, and meant to be public, and RIGHT HERE AT HOME for the U.S. people: article at NY Times. This requires a free registration to log on. If you don't have one, cypherpunk with same password might work.
Ross <homiegroy@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 11:47:03 (MDT)
Disgusted:
Good post. The description sounded much like Kosovo ... or Northern Ireland. We're a hairs breadth away.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 11:23:05 (MDT)
Andrew wrote:
Some are good, some are not. Same as bankers, lawyers, teachers. For some reason though I don't see any web pages that espouse the killing of them.
True, Andrew, but bankers, lawyers, and teachers aren't opening fire on their customers ... yet. So far, only the Postal Workers and Police do that.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 10:45:28 (MDT)
Society is not at war with its police; the police are waging war with society. Society fired very few shots: Ruby Ridge, WACO, Whacko, whatever. We know who started the war, exemplia gratis, the 36+ kills, and we know who continues and escalates the war ... and we know this war is not limited to blacks and hispanics.
Malibu, CA. Donald P. Scott and his wife are woken by
knocking at the door of their historic ranch house.
Scott's wife approaches the door as 31 agents of
the Sheriff's Dept, DEA, Park Service, and Border
Patrol smash it in. Scott responds to his wife's
scream with revolver in hand. He dies after he is
shot three times in the upper torso by deputy
(name deleted by AF) because he does not drop his
gun fast enough. Nothing illegal is found.
Ventura County District Attorney Michael Bradbury
finds that "primary purpose of the raid was a land
grab by the Sheriff's Department" under federal
asset-forfeiture laws, and that a sheriff's deputy
had lied to obtain the search warrant. Bradbury
declines to prosecute agents.
Poway, CA. Donald Carlson is shot by black-clad DEA
agents in a botched midnight drug raid. Carlson,
hearing the door burst in, calls 911 to report a
break-in, then grabs a pistol he keeps for self-defense.
He drops the pistol after the first shot by agents,
who then shoot him two more times on the floor.
No drugs are found. Carlson spends two months in
intensive care, and sustains permanent damage to
his respiratory system, arm and shoulder. It is
later confirmed the agents could clearly see there
was nothing in Carlson's garage, two hours before
the raid, where a ton of marijuana was allegedly
stored.
This bears repeating:
If you own something a 'bad cop' wants, he will kill you and he will take it away from you ... and his brothers in blue will protect, serve, and defend him, before and after the fact.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 10:34:06 (MDT)
Good gosh, as I read more of this guestbook`s comments I really felt scared. Some people told us about police brutality, some write down steve`s former adress, steve is writing about ambushing someone and so on....!!!! What the hell is wrong with this world? Do you really believe that anarchism is a solution? Do you really believe that all police officers would kill people just for fun? I don`t believe in both. Anytime somebody threatned me i would call the police for help because i want to live saved. Sure, everybody has to do what ever he can for his own safety - even kill someone in self defending. But.....sometimes you will need those officers to help you out of trouble. For they don`t get that much money for their dangerous job (and the most of them do their job very very well)I have to give them a BIG BIG RESPECT!! What i can't respect is to promote killing officers just because SOME of them were involved in criminal activities or killed people because they wear that badge. Crimes must be charged.
I also don't understand afro-americans promoting hatred for the european-americans (if you don't want us to call you BLACK don't call us WHITE / no racism, just the truth). And no one should call an afro-american a nigger. Peace and understanding begins in your minds and hearts, no matter what colour you have or what uniform you wear. And remember: if somebody shoots your brother or sister you WILL call the police. See and learn, anarcho's, because you are wrong too.
Sky High <music@sky-high.de>
Kingston, Jamaica - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 07:30:40 (MDT)
I feel: No cop should kill any innocent person at all unless he got to defend himself. And even no cop should BE KILLED by anybody just for doing his job: saving people from crime activities. Killings are wrong and bad at all, no matter of their cause. I had many friends in Jamaica whose got shot by officers just for nothing. And i also had sveral friends working for the police whose got shot for nothing at all, too. People, think before you act. Love and understanding is better than any bloodsport, no matter who does it. One Love.
Sky High <music@sky-high.de>
Kingston, Jamaica - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 06:41:19 (MDT)
I've read some of the entries on this guest book, and it appears to me that the laws in the state where I work as a police officer must be different. Everyone here who doesn't like the police screams about no probable cause for the stop or for what ever action the police took.
In michigan to pull over a vehicle you need a reasonable suspicion that a crime is taking place. That means that I can pull someone over if the circumstances would lead a reasonable person to believe that a law has been broken. I don't need to be absolutely, positively sure.
Police officers all over the world resemble the society that they serve. Some are good, some are not. Same as bankers, lawyers, teachers. For some reason though I don't see any web pages that espouse the killing of them. I disturbs me to think that people feel that it acceptable to kill someone because of the uniform they wear.
andrew
Mi USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 02:29:03 (MDT)
TO "CITIZEN TARGET": If your posting was referring to my comment on the 14,000 police officers killed, here is my response. I'm not sure that your figure of 1/5,000 is correct, but I will entrust that it is. Even so, does that mean that those homicides (of police officers) can go forgotten? And no, I am not just "another idiot" ignoring the 36+ murders listed. If those are truly all unjustified murders of law-abiding black/hispanic youths, then that is equally as trajic. But what about the unjustified murders of law-abiding police officers? Are those okay? Several statements made on this website seem to say it is. And no, I'm not saying that the "police [can] kill who they want, when they want, wherever they want, for whatever reason they can concoct at the time." And I doubt that is a common occurance; although in your mind I'm sure it is the only one. You (as well as Steve Pordon) are truly close-minded and sick.
Don S.
USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 01:30:56 (MDT)
1 out of 5000 homicides are police officers. Another idiot
ignoring the 36+ kills listed checks in. It's OK for the
police to kill who they want, when they want, wherever they
want, for whatever reason they can concoct at the time. Another
idiot trying to justify the killing of unarmed, underage black
and hispanic youths engaged in no criminal activity at the time.
Way to go. How long do you think you can just keep on firing
randomly into the crowd before someone shoots back ?
... to you, pile.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 01:12:32 (MDT)
What the<\blink> fuck is up, G?
dfsdfd <fsdf>
dfsdf, dsfsdf USAdsfsdfdf - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 01:10:42 (MDT)
What the fuck is up, G?
dfsdfd <fsdf>
dfsdf, dsfsdf USAdsfsdfdf - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 01:08:56 (MDT)
Oh, and while you're at it, how about adding a section to your website about the over 14,000 police officers that were killed protecting people like yourself.
Don S.
USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 00:05:36 (MDT)
Unfortunately, I recently discovered your website, and must say I am disgusted. You are truly an irrational, small-minded, sick individual. Saying that your website promotes "self defense" and not senseless violence is a joke. How about the "Fuck you, pig" picture? Who were you defending there? And "Welcome to the Butcher Shop?" How about the GWAR lyrics at the bottom? An anti-police brutality page if perfectly fine, but creating a "Kill a Cop for Jesus" page which supposedly promotes self-defense is quite different. It's very displeasing to know that there are people like you in the world.
-- "A society that makes war with its police must learn to make friends with its criminals."
Don S.
USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 00:01:01 (MDT)
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Tuesday, July 27, 1999 at 23:01:45 (MDT)
go to hell jerk-off.
rich hersey
baltimore, MD USA - Tuesday, July 27, 1999 at 12:24:54 (MDT)
go to hell jerk-off.
rich hersey
baltimore, MD USA - Tuesday, July 27, 1999 at 12:24:42 (MDT)
"Whatcha gonna do whent the mafia in blue
comes huntin for queers, niggers, and you!?"
{{No, I am not racist.}}
"I remember
when I first went to school
they told me, don't be a joker don't be a fool
pledge your allegience to the red white and blue
don't expect your country to do nothing for you.
They told me my forefathers loved me, but I only had one
and I watched him die in the heat of the sun
suckin up a bullet from a police man's gun.
Nothin I could do but get away.
In America you gotta take a chance
if you plan on being free.
They call this the land of the living,
but they try to make a dead man out of me."
-"I Remember" MillionsofDeadCops [[~MDC~]]
later
Chris L. <defsol@aol.com>
Cheyenne, WY USA - Tuesday, July 27, 1999 at 02:17:04 (MDT)
Like I have mentioned before, we, the public, and the police are on two different levels. This is truly a "dog eat dog" world, where police dogs have the upper hand. Police are exempt from many things that are considered crimes with regards to the under-dogs.
Disgusted
USA - Sunday, July 25, 1999 at 02:25:19 (MDT)
The thing I am wondering if you see is that the government obeys corporate will. This country is run by it's corporations, not by the government.
Agreed.
The cops are executing corporate will. The cops are just the grunts, ...
... with an de stare agenda of their own.
... and there is an endless supply of them. Fighting the grunts is fighting your fellow citizens.
... not according to Officer Jeff Cooperstein. The 'cops' are citizens, we're not.
If you want to make progress, you have to aim your efforts at the policy-makers, not the infantry.
I tried that for 25 years. It doesn't work. I have a briefcase full of court orders that, to quote one state trooper, "... we aren't going to obey any court order without a court order". Where, you may ask, and under what circumstance, you may ask, did a trooper make such a remark ? In a court of law; a court allegedly empowered to order an order to be obeyed. Did the court order the courts order to be obeyed ? No.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Saturday, July 24, 1999 at 12:12:15 (MDT)
Whoa! Easy there big guy! I'm not trying to fuck with you. I just want to hear your side.
My position is that we should do everything we possibly can to avoid a revolution in this country. For one thing, most of the sheep in this country will not participate, which means the revolution probably cannot succeed. But mostly, open warfare is always the most inefficient way to resolve differences of interest. It is emotionally satisfying to say "kill the police", but to my mind, this is not a real solution. It doesn't fix anything, and it makes the whole society worse.
I believe you about Willie not getting his money. I just wanted to hear your reasoning. But in reading your explanation, I didn't read that anybody tried to contact Willie himself. It seems like that would be a simple way to find out for sure.
With no disrespect intended to you or this website, the number of people killed by the police in this country every year is miniscule when compared to the number of people thrown in jail on felony drug charges. With a felony record, it is very difficult to find a legitimate job. So we create career criminals when we throw these guys in jail. I read recently that 75% of the US prison population is incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses. The number of people being sent to jail has risen so much that the government has to farm the prison industry out to private corporations. If we legalize drugs, we take away the number one reason the police have to stop and search people, leading to shootings. We also get rid of most of the gangs, because they can't compete economically with the drugs provided by industry, price-wise or quality-wise.
That's what I mean about a structural solution. If people start killing cops as part of an "anti-cop" movement, the police will militarize even further, and you will have an even worse situation of police abuse of power on your hands. Ostensibly, that is not what you want, right?
You make very good points, and clearly have a well-working brain on your shoulders. But I am not yet convinced that the only way to fix America is through armed revolution. It seems every year that passes, I grow further into the minority with this opinion. You are not the only one who is as pissed off at the government as you are.
I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I want to use what smarts I have to *avoid* open, armed conflict. Look at Northern Ireland! I do not want to see soldiers in sandbagged positions on the streetcorner. If it comes to that, I will be one of the people pulling the trigger. It remains to be seen who I'll be pulling triggers for. I'm inclined to think I would join the anti-government forces, but the first bomb that goes off and kills a bunch of people in the street in the name of the resistance a la N. Ireland, that is not OK with me. That is seriously not OK. But that is the kind of action that escalation leads to.
The thing I am wondering if you see is that the government obeys corporate will. This country is run by it's corporations, not by the government. The cops are executing corporate will. The cops are just the grunts, and there is an endless supply of them. Fighting the grunts is fighting your fellow citizens. If you want to make progress, you have to aim your efforts at the policy-makers, not the infantry.
Robert
Robert <bedlam@dimensional.com>
Lakewood, CO USA - Saturday, July 24, 1999 at 10:33:35 (MDT)
Geez, that turned out long. Steve, I apologize.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 12:59:29 (MDT)
Willie Jones was never repaid in like or in kind. Period. The minimum legal fees, at the time, for recapture of seized property were 25,000 dollars. Do you sense a disparity there ? Do I have a source stating he was not paid ? Yes and no. I have already sited proper and valid sources, albeit sans names except one. Call Terwilliger, talk to him, ask him. Then, when your done with the phone call: sit back, relax, and ask yourself ... do I really believe him ?
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 12:57:51 (MDT)
Hi. Citizen, when you say that Willie Jones never got his
money back, do you mean that he never got the actual bills
that he had earlier, or he never got the $9600 back? The
article I posted says that a court order him to be paid...
can you site a source saying he was never paid?
Also, I'm probably going to get a some flack for this, but
I'm glad we have police. I agree with you that there is
a problem, but I don't think that killing cops is the answer.
There are always going to be police in this country. So
what do you recommend to fix the problem, so that cops do
not kill these people? I'm asking for a structural solution,
not just emotional reaction here.
thanks for your time.
Robert
Robert <bedlam@dimensional.com>
Lakewood, CO USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 08:20:49 (MDT)
Robert:
b) the 'undetermined amount of US currency' never left Nashville.
c) no crime occurred and
d) no criminal charges were ever filed.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 22:59:32 (MDT)
Here's a contemporary who probably never even got a parking ticket.
In fact, I'll bet he breezed through all the most sophisticated
police profiling. I'll bet he's retired and living comfortably
in Arizona with the best police protection available; all paid for
by people like Willie Jones.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 22:13:00 (MDT)
Robert:
One was a witness against a cop.
One was a cop.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 22:04:47 (MDT)
whew! I just finished reading all these comments, and man! there are some fucked up people out there!
what's up with tim, dan and a? steve, did you push a lawsuit
through? those guys who posted your personal info should
lose their jobs if it can be proven that they used cop computers
to find the info. please update us on what happened with this.
also, regarding weapons, for my money, NOTHING beats the
Calico M900 9mm carbine. it takes 50 and 100 round magazines,
ejects downwards so that a bag can be attached to keep your
brass, and there are full-auto versions available for law
enforcement, which means that the semi-auto model is probably
easy to upgrade to full. i don't know if this gun is still
in production, and i forget who made it...
Robert <bedlam@dimensional.com>
Lakewood, CO USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 08:00:45 (MDT)
I would like to respond to a few comments that were made by Ross and others so that I can get in my 2 cents worth. I don't have time to finish it all this morning as I am leaving in an hour for my first attempt at a vacation since my injury. But when I return, I will continue wherever I leave off.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 06:08:49 (MDT)
Here, this'll piss everybody off. Here's an example of asset forfeiture, how the police can routinely deny us our fourth amendment rights (remind me to tell you about the time i quoted the fourth to a cop who wanted to search my car sometime) and why the drug war is FUCKED:
Willie Jones, the owner of a landscaping service, is an African-American. On February 27, 1991, he paid for an airplane ticket in cash at the Nashville, Tennessee, Metro Airport. This "suspicious" behavior – a black man paying cash – caused the ticket agent to alert Nashville police. A police search of Jones and his luggage yielded no drugs. In his wallet, however, he did have $9,600 in cash on which a sniffing police dog detected traces of drugs (a chemical condition true of 97 percent of all U.S. currency now in circulation). The cash was promptly seized, despite protestations by Mr. Jones that he intended to use the money to purchase plants and shrubbery from growers in Houston, Texas, the destination for which he had purchased his round-trip plane ticket. No arrest was made. The seizure, however, nearly drove Mr. Jones out of business. He was unable to post the 10 percent bond money ($960) necessary to mount a legal challenge, so the DEA refused to return his cash. His only recourse was to sue the DEA for discrimination based on race. In April 1993, more than two years later, a federal judge ordered his $9,600 returned, noting that the presence of drug traces on currency sis so prevalent as to be meaningless as a justification for forfeiting cash.
Source: Jones vs. Drug Enforcement
Robert <bedlam@dimensional.com>
Lakewood, CO USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 07:40:00 (MDT)
Steve, my wife was looking over my shoulder at your page, and wondered what the ethnicity is of the list of people killed by police at the top of your main page. Could you include that? Her bet is that most of the victims were black or hispanic.
Also, as to printing up arrest injuries, and how newspapers are business, here is a terrific opportunity for all you people who want to kill cops to exercise your 1st amendment rights. Print up a one page weekly summary of the police actions in your community. This requires that you go to the police offices and access their public records. Get to know some of them, and you may even get more info, and inside stories. A web page won't work--even people who have web access won't go looking for this. You have to make it a free weekly sheet that you can distribute to local supermarkets and businesses, and you'll have to get your friends to help you distribute it.
A lot of work, right? A lot easier to just bitch about the police. But your bitching accomplishes nothing. If you REALLY WANT TO CHANGE THINGS, it takes work. If you are unwilling to do the work, then don't expect people to take your beliefs seriously.
Personally, I think this is a great idea. Maybe I'll look into starting something like this here in Lakewood.
But you see how it works, right? This country, this world has so many problems. I guess our country has always been competitive, and that leads to an adversarial climate. Lately, I've been thinking about how adversarial we are. We never try to compromise (and I'm including myself in this) we always are on the attack. We never admit we fucked up, we always focus on how the other guy fucked up. I believe that the only way to make our country liveable is for us to take the stick out of our asses (myself included) and start to see the other guy's side, and work with him. If I make an enemy, then I've got to spend energy just keeping that guy off my back. But if I can turn him into an ally, the two of us will accomplish more than just the sum of our individual efforts. This is the only way we will fix this fucked up country.
By the way, Retired, Echelon is a truly fucked up thing. Here are some other things to look up on the web just to get a feel for where some of these people's heads are at: MK-ULTRA, COINTELPRO, BCCI, MAJESTIC, hell, just type "conspiracy" into the yahoo engine and spend a day looking at what you find. You'll know the nonsense when you see it, just avoid the crap. But pay attention to anything that sounds like it's related to intelligence or the military. The problem with conspiracists is that they think the conspiracies are a lot more organized than they really are. I'm not saying they aren't conspiracies, just that the people with power are about as incompetent as anybody else.
The other problem with conspiracy stuff is that the more you look into it, the less skeptical you get about everything. :-) A good book to pick up is Robert Anton Wilson's Everything Is Under Control It's not comprehensive, but it's fun, and it's a good place to start.
I encourage all of you (especially law enforcement guys) to get more involved in the Resistance Movement to the war on drugs. Here are some links:
Znet Online Zine
Mapinc Lists check out the rest of the site too, but subscribe to the digest list, it will blow your mind.
Peter McWilliams Site
Cops Against The Drug War steve, perhaps this belongs on the "good cops" page?
Yahoo War on Drugs
Dana Williams War On The War On Drugs
Asset Forfeiture this one'll REALLY piss you off
Keep the faith brothers.
Robert <bedlam@dimensional.com>
Lakewood, CO USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 07:29:48 (MDT)
Dr. Watson, you are being ridiculous.
I'll tell you one thing to help you come back to reality. If you kill a cop when I'm around, I'm going to try to kill YOU. In your dreamworld, you may think you're a hero for killing cops, but to most people, you will just look like a murderer. We humans are pretty fucked up, but one thing we instictively react to very strongly is a murderer in our presence.
...which is probably a big part of why copkiller.org exists. just get your head on straight and stop talking shit. and if you're such a tough guy, then post your email address and stop hiding in anonymity.
and relax, for chrissakes. why are you so pissed off at the police anyways? i'm not saying your anger is wrong, just your reaction to the anger.
Robert <bedlam@dimensional.com>
Lakewood, CO USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 06:48:40 (MDT)
Yo you fuckin pigs, I wanna see you all dead. You fuckin' shitters keep talkin' about this fuckin' "american constitution" an all that shit. It's all a fuckin illusion, there is no fucking constitution. Enough innocent people have been fucked over for speaking their mind in the us. This dosen't even happen in the communist countries. I hope you all get a violent ending to your shit half lives. You only joined the pigs 'cause you couldn't get another job. None of you fuckers are innocent. You are all fuckin' pigs and you deserve to die painfully. A bullet in the head is too good for you cunts. I want to work you over with a metal bar, an' shoot your fucking jaw out of your fucking head. Then I'm gonna go a rape all yo wives and kill em all.
Burn in hell motherfuckers, Fuckin mad
p.s. yes threaten me all you like, because that's what you fuckers always do to those who excercise the "constitution" by speaking their mind.
Fuck America...[*sigh*...I think they got the point
the first five times you posted this. --steve]
Dr. Watson
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 16:57:32 (MDT)
Thanks Robert for that very enlightening post. I'm not being sarcastic. I also think that it is a good idea to have police and suspect injuries printed. But Retired/Injured Cop is also correct about the news media being a BUSINESS and they could care less about how many injuries there were this week, or the next. But some places have county papers that print local topics like proposed new housing sites, new malls, what's happening at such and such middle school or high school, etc., etc., etc. Perhaps the citizens of NY, NY are not interested in what's going on with police/public in Omaha, NE, but I'm sure the Omaha locals sure would be.
Disgusted
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 15:02:33 (MDT)
Steve: thanks for telling us that this is HTML formatted.
And, yes, at the moment, I would rather have "chaos." Really.
Ross <homiegroy@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 14:31:08 (MDT)
In response to Robert's comments: I agree with most of what he said. It is very sharp of him to notice and bring up the topic of the "war on drugs". The politicians and the news media have been pulling the wool over the eyes of the citizens of this country for a LONG time. The war on drugs is a joke. It has caused so many problems, so many needless murders, so many dead and injured people, so much horror--it's a facade to make people THINK that something is being done about drugs. I will not get into a long dissertation about it, but Robert is right on the money. The war on drugs is a farce, and the citizens just continue to let the government get away with it. Why do people not care about their country any more? I just don't get it. And as a side-note to the war on drugs, it has caused a major problem that not many people discuss. It has caused a HUGE problem with people that are dying of cancer, AIDS, or other serious problems where they are in terrible, horrible pain. The doctors are afraid to prescribe the really strong painkillers to the patients over a long period of time because they don't want to have the DEA come knocking on their door taking them to jail for creating more "drug addicts". That is a very big, very serious topic that our "war on drugs" has created. It's a big joke, and a sick one at that---many people dying and suffering both from being murdered and from medical conditions.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 11:29:33 (MDT)
We don't need to kill cops. They are public servants. We pay their salaries. They are here to serve *US*, not the other way around. We just need to reestablish that relationship.
For almost twenty years, the police have been told by their bosses at the city, state and federal levels that they are fighting a holy war against drugs. This has caused the police to see everyone as a potential suspect. This is not how it should be. The police have a dirty, thankless job to perform, and I for one am glad that I don't have to deal with the stupid, drunken, unpredictable people on the streets that I came to know living in downtown Denver for three years. That is no excuse for the many atrocities some cops have perpetrated, but if you want to change the way the cops work, you have to see their side of the problem.
Aside from the fact that killing cops increases the level of violence in our society (which is bad), think about what will happen if people start killing cops. How will the cops react? They will put on more body armor, get more powerful weapons, and have even more excuses to go to congress and destroy even more of our civil rights. You are making a mistake by advocating that *any* cops be killed--even the really bad ones.
The root cause of this problem is the drug war. They say it is a war on drugs, but in fact, it is a war on civil liberty. Drug abuse is a social problem, not a criminal problem. By making drugs illegal, we have created the very black market that brings about the guns and the behind-the-scenes problems that have given the police their reason to erode our civil rights.
We must reassert our control over the police in our communities. Every arrest should be reported in the local newspaper. The arresting officers names should be printed, but since the suspect is not guilty until tried in a court of law, the suspect's name should not be printed. Why should the cop's name be printed? Because he is a public servant, and if he is doing his job right, he has nothing to fear. If he routinely violates the rights of the citizens he comes into contact with, then over time, it will become obvious. Honest cops have nothing to fear from having their actions on the job made public.
Any injuries that happen during an arrest should be printed on the front page of the local newspaper, whether it was a cop that got hurt, or a citizen. This issue needs to be public. It is precisely because the police know that there is little or no public watching them on the job that we only hear about situations where some guy gets shot 40 times. We should be hearing about when somebody gets a little abrasion on their knee when a cop takes them to the sidewalk.
At the same time, we need to end the drug war. It is costing us over $600 PER SECOND, billions of dollars every year, and what has it produced? When will we decide that the War on Drugs has been won or lost? It is the wrong solution to the problem. Once the police don't have to spend most of their times looking for drugs, they can go back to doing what they are supposed to be doing: preventing burglaries, murder, rape, kidnapping, extortion, etc.
The police are American citizens. Most of them are decent people trying to make a living in an increasingly difficult world. We need to work TOGETHER with the police, to make our society a better place to live. What we need to do is to change the way policemen are hired and trained, and to take back control of who is allowed to work on the police force. We need to have a number like 911 that we can call to complain about the actions of police. We, as citizens, need to work together to keep our police honest. And we as citizens need to get to know our neighbors better, so that we can help the police put violent criminals and thieves in jail where they belong. The solution is not to turn up the volume on this already fucked up situation. The solution is for us to take responsibility for the communities we live in, to work with the police, and to get the drug laws changed before we have another bloody revolution in this country.
I implore you to tone down your website. There is plenty of killing going on in our country as it is. I understand your frustration--it makes me very angry when I learn of yet another police atrocity. But you are advocating the wrong solution.
Robert <bedlam@dimensional.com>
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 09:37:34 (MDT)
Sorry about the multiple posting, it wasn't intentional. The page wouldn't load all of the way, so I tried 3 times. It looks like all 3 went through.
Dan
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 23:01:29 (MDT)
I'm glad to see that several of my fellow officers are turning alot of the trash comments on this page into constructive text. Who knows, we may even educate a few people here. (But don't we do that on a daily basis anyway?) Perhaps more of the cops who read this page can join in and comment as well. Of course, there will still be the trashy entries, but those simply aren't worth responding to. Maybe we can even convince Steve to change the title of his page to something which is more descriptive of individual rights and liberties rather than one which condones violence. I can deal with that much easier than the killing of cops, or the killing of any member of society for that matter.
Dan
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 22:55:51 (MDT)
I'm glad to see that several of my fellow officers are turning alot of the trash comments on this page into constructive text. Who knows, we may even educate a few people here. (But don't we do that on a daily basis anyway?) Perhaps more of the cops who read this page can join in and comment as well. Of course, there will still be the trashy entries, but those simply aren't worth responding to. Maybe we can even convince Steve to change the title of his page to something which is more descriptive of individual rights and liberties rather than one which condones violence. I can deal with that much more than the killing of cops, or the killing of any member of society for that matter.
Dan
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 22:54:13 (MDT)
I'm glad to see that several of my fellow officers are turning alot of the trash comments on this page into constructive text. Who knows, we may even educate a few people here. (But don't we do that on a daily basis anyway?) Perhaps more of the cops who read this page can join in and comment as well. Of course, there will still be the trashy entries, but those simply aren't worth responding to. Maybe we can even convince Steve to change the title of his page to something which is more descriptive of individual rights and liberties rather than one which condones violence. I can deal with that much more than the killing of cops, or the killing of any member of society for that matter.
Dan
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 22:53:20 (MDT)
Steve, as a police officer I can't say I am thrilled by some of what I've read on this site, but I think alot of my fellow officers that are posting here are forgetting that free speech is still protected by the U.S. Constitution. I did not join this profession to be loved and revered by all, I joined it to do what I could to help protect and serve those unwilling or unable to do so for themselves. Anyone who becomes a cop expecting to be loved by everyone should quit and become a fireman. There will always be those who disagree with what the police do. This type of exchange is necessary if we are to remain a free people. No person in a position of power should be placed there without some safeguards against corruption, whether they are a policeman, a soldier, or a politician. The very nature of our jobs attracts people motivated by many things. Unfortunately, for a very small percentage of police, that motivation is a desire to have power over others. It is against this small minority that we in law enforcement must remain vigilant, just as we are against the criminals who prey on our communities.
spencer
Rochester, NY USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 14:03:48 (MDT)
Steve, Thanks for the repair of my posting to the Guestbook. Also, I still have my legs--not sure where that came from. It's my back--reconstructive surgery with LOTS of hardware, screws, cages, etc.....Thanks for the thoughts.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 15:59:01 (MDT)
Regarding my LONG post below: I had it organized into paragraphs and
sections that made it easy to read. I did not know that when I posted to
the Guestbook, it would ignore all of that and squish it all together as
one. Sorry if it's a little hard to read that way, but I didn't know it
would do that. So that it makes a little more sense, I put Ross's
comments in quotes, than responded with my answer after that. Those were
supposed to be new paragraphs, but it didn't come out that way. [Note: I fixed the post in question. The guestbook is a cgi
script that formats as HTML, so you need to put <P> in between your
paragraphs to get the formatting right. By the way, I'm still reading all
the comments here (I was sorry to hear about the loss of your job and
legs), but if it seems like I'm not spending as much time responding as I
used to, it's because my wedding plans are keeping me busy.
--steve]
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 00:43:56 (MDT)
Ross--my apologies for taking so long to respond as I promised I would. It's been a crazy week for me. But can you please calm down just a bit? Wow--you sound like a spoiled little kid sitting at the table demanding service. "Respond to me dammit"---is this what you do when you don't get your way? My gosh.....I will try to respond to the majority of your comments the best way that I can. But let me point out something first that I feel is important to note: It is my personal opinion that your mind is made up, your mind is closed, and regardless of whatever I say you will disagree with it. So in reality, it's actually somewhat useless for me to respond to ANY of your points because I already know that no matter what I say, you will disagree without taking the time to truly open your mind and clear out all prejudiced feelings and biases. This is a VERY difficult thing to do, and if someone has never tried that before, it will be difficult the first few times you try. With practice, you can "train" your mind to do interesting things and when you do that, a whole new world comes into view. It's actually quite fascinating. So, with that said, I'll go ahead and respond--but I know that unless you try what I have suggested, this is a useless effort on my part.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 00:27:36 (MDT)
Heh! "Retired/Injured," you haven't yet addressed my posting. Secondly, about your post in reponse to Alec, I have never done anything to get me in trouble with cops. As are the people you're trying to debunk, you're making generalized, incorrect stereotypes.-----Alec has a lot of good points. The constitution (bill of rights, really) is the only thing (tenuously) keeping us from near fascism. No government conspiracies??? What the hell is Echelonm then? All the paranoids imagined that, and everybody just wrote them off, BUT THEY WERE RIGHT. There is also an unwritten code of silence in many police departments, or "honor among thieves." This is obvious from various news articles.------No, not all cops are bad, but that depends on your definition.------Respond to me, dammit! I actually came back here to see if you'd responded, and, of course, you haven't. Dammit.
Ross <homiegroy@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 19:56:30 (MDT)
TO: "Teh Editor" Can I buy you a beer? I think we'd have a lot in common to discuss. While I pride myself on always trying to remain as open-minded as possible and to always listen to the other side of an issue in case I am missing something, it really is getting more difficult to do here. My only guess is, since the kids are out of school for the summer, that accounts for a lot of these postings. But unfortunately, there are adults that will make such strong, negative, cruel statements without any facts, research, or evidence to back up what they say. Of course, they can always say, "well what about the cop who.....(fill in the blank)". Yes, there ARE bad cops. As I have said, always have been and always will be. And that is because of the simple reason that cops are not hired from the "Planet Perfect"---they are hired from the same society that we all live in. Some bad apples WILL make it through the extremely tough hiring and training process. I will never deny that there are bad cops, because that would be a very naive and ignorant statement to make. But percentage-wise, police officers as a group have one of the highest percentages of honest, clean, decent people of any other occupation. I really mean it when I say this: I wish that the people who say "Fuck the pigs" and "Kill the pigs" and all of this other crap would be able to work as a police officer in patrol in the worst part of time for just one full work week (5 days). Just one week---oh my god, how I would love to see that. That doesn't mean going out there and driving around, playing with the lights and siren, showing off to everybody your weapons, and doing what you want. No, no, no, no.....It means doing the job that the cops are required to do---follow department policies and procedures, follow and KNOW almost all relevant laws and apply them fairly and legally, write and process a mountain of reports, have people give you dirty looks and yell at you even though they know nothing about you or who you are, respond to an accident and handle a report of a dead infant that the parent was too lazy to strap into the car seat and try to obtain a statement from the grieving mother, get into a fight with some REALLY big guys covered with tattoos, have a drunk throw up on your boots that you spent half of your Saturday shining up, and the list goes on and on and on.....These whiners and complainers wouldn't make it past the first 5 hours. It takes a special person to do that job, and a special spouse and kids to understand why you come home in terrible moods sometimes. I know this is going right over the heads of these people. I guess I'm not really writing it for them---I'm writing it for the hundreds of cops reading this but don't post messages here. The cops ARE well respected by the majority of people, but sometimes it's easy to forget that. This serves as a reminder that the cops who are working the streets today are appreciated and we are thankful for them. I just got out of the job 1 year ago after a very serious on-duty injury thanks to a suspect similar to the ones that post messages here. Except this was a car accident where I did nothing wrong. But the guy with the suspended license and no insurance sure did something wrong---he disabled me for life and took away my career, which was my life. Now instead of my badge being pinned on my uniform shirt where it belongs, it is now framed and hanging on my wall. That shouldn't have happened for another 20 years. Yeah, so you guys go ahead and keep slamming the cops just because you did something wrong and got caught, and they were just doing their job. How about taking some responsibility for what YOU did wrong and not blame the cop that had to arrest you and listen to your crying about "I won't do it again. Can't we talk this over officer?". I guess I better stop here before I really get going. I don't want to get myself upset again.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 00:19:01 (MDT)
Jake: Perhaps you and Alec should get together to discuss Constitutional issues. You stated, "it is so hard to find "good cop" sites because there are so few decent, forgiving police officers in this slum of a country. rock on." If you don't like this country, you are certainly free to leave. Both Canada and Mexico are within driving distance of just about everywhere in the U.S. Perhaps the 'less slum-like' countries of Kosovo, Russia or Sierre Leon would be better for you. And to discuss "decent, forgiving" police officers shows a lack of knowledge on your part. When you talk about forgiveness by a police officer, you aren't really discussing forgiveness. You simply want the cop to give you a break for the acts committed. It's not because of remorse, it's because you got caught and it's 'inconvenient' for you to deal with it. Cops are not paid to be forgivers. They are enforcers of the law. The primary function of a police officer is to prevent crime and protect the community from criminals. Forgiveness isn't a part of the job. If you want forgiveness, go talk to a priest. Regarding your comment about being surprised that so many police officers are responding to this site, don't be. These types of sites are popping up all over the country. Steve probably doesn't know it, but this is perhaps one of the best training tools to crop up for police officers in some time. Police officers are being encouraged in academies and during in-service training sessions to go online and see what people are saying in these sites. It's great for gathering intelligence (if intelligence is the proper word to use in describing many who post messages on this site.) Police officers need to know exactly how certain segments of the community feel about them. These sites assist the officer in sharpening his awareness skills so that he knows how to better deal with deviant behavior on the street. And yes, I said "deviant" behavior. This is behavior which does not conform with the norm of society. It's quite obvious to me that there are many "deviants" using this site. (No Steve, I can sense your thoughts. You don't need to say it).
'Teh Editor'
USA - Friday, July 16, 1999 at 23:32:18 (MDT)
sorry about that double posting... damn aol... man, i just read a lot of the entries and cant believe so many cops come on here!! crazy. they need to stop bitchin. (by the way, the URL above is to another homepage of mine, not the aforementioned one.)
jake b <mdcgeek1@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, July 16, 1999 at 00:49:43 (MDT)
hey there man.. nice page!! one of the most impressive I have found. i think my URL above might be of A LOT of interest to you. you should check it out, ESPECIALLY the links page... there are many cop links... and the "dead cops" section is something else that you might enjoy. it is so hard to find "good cop" sites because there are so few decent, forgiving police officers in this slum of a country. rock on, and i will check back often for updates, and add you to my links page DEFINITELY very soon.
Jake Beamer <MDCgeek1@yahoo.com>
Fort Lauderdale, FL USA - Friday, July 16, 1999 at 00:44:55 (MDT)
hey there man.. nice page!! one of the most impressive I have found. i think my URL above might be of A LOT of interest to you. you should check it out, ESPECIALLY the links page... there are many cop links... and the "dead cops" section is something else that you might enjoy. it is so hard to find "good cop" sites because there are so few decent, forgiving police officers in this slum of a country. rock on, and i will check back often for updates, and add you to my links page DEFINITELY very soon.
Jake Beamer <MDCgeek1@yahoo.com>
Fort Lauderdale, FL USA - Friday, July 16, 1999 at 00:44:30 (MDT)
Alec, I think your most recent post speaks for itself. I have almost no further comments on it. And just a little bit of words of wisdom from me to you---a police officer has the same arrest rights and powers as a citizen (with one felony exception that i won't get into---not necessary for this topic). If you are convinced that your "evidence" is so strong, you don't need me to make the arrest---do it yourself. If you don't want to physically make the arrest yourself, then forward your information to the district attorney requesting a warrant. If you know the laws of the land as you seem to preach, then you already know this. Good luck in your endeavors. You'll need it. As far as me serving my community, I certainly don't have to answer to you--especially with the kind of response you came back with. I have enough awards, commendable notices, citizen compliment letters, and "thank you's" from both suspects and victims and that's all I need to convince myself and others of my service. Not to mention my lifetime disability that I received while serving the community. Try thinking of others for once instead of yourself. By the way, I'll even let you borrow some aluminum foil from me, as "Teh Editor" suggested. Take care.......
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, July 15, 1999 at 22:42:02 (MDT)
Retired/Injured Cop---Have you figured out just what the hell Alec is trying to say. He just rambles on and on. I was looking to see whether or not he was going to talk about how he places aluminum foil on his ceiling to keep out the nasty gamma rays which are being transmitted by the U.S. Government. I guess that will be contained in his next volume. Must be from the left coast.
'Teh Editor'
USA - Thursday, July 15, 1999 at 22:23:27 (MDT)
This comment is directed at User3665@aol.com, AKA Retired/Injured. In regards to your reply, of July 06, 1999 at 11:32:43 (MDT), to the comment that I posted on July 06, 1999 at 04:09:27 (MDT), I have the following observations to make: (1) You say that because of the way the guestbook is set up, you cannot read my (or someone else's) comments while you write yours. Of course you can. I read and quoted your comments while writing my reply here: use your web browser to save the guestbook page out to the hard drive on your computer; use a simple text editor such as Windows Notepad to open up the file you just saved; use the Edit menu's cut and paste functions to copy whatever you need to whatever word processor you use to write with and then use those same cut and paste functions to move you comments from your word processor back to your web browser when you are ready to post those comments in the guestbook; (2) I do not appreciate your suggestion that I am a crazy kook. In particular, I am referring to the following statement you made: "So maybe if the Webmaster comes in and tells you to take your topic to a different forum, maybe HE is part of the mass government conspiracy also."; (3) In light of the evidence I have and that I can easily give you, those "militia members" and so-called "Constitutionalists" do not have a screw loose as you so arrogantly declare. They are desperate people being denied their basic human rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and who are attempting to use every legal means that they can find to get those basic human rights; (4) Your arrogant declarations that citizens who refer to the Constitution or to court cases are ranting and raving and, thus, not to be listened to, proves that you do not, or, in your specific case, did not, serve the people of
your community, notwithstanding your many claims to the contrary. THE CONSTITUTION FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS THE SUPREME LAW OF THIS COUNTRY, NO MATTER WHO QUOTES IT, AND YOU, AND EVERY OTHER POLICE OFFICER ARE OBLIGATED BY OATH TO ENFORCE AND UPHOLD IT, AND TO DISREGARD ANYTHING, BE IT ACT OF CONGRESS, STATE LEGISLATURE, ETC., THAT CONFLICTS WITH IT! IT IS ABOUT TIME YOU REMEMBERED THAT!; (5) There IS a conspiracy and a cover-up going on at the local police level. Your statements about people, who quote the Constitution and court cases, being ranters and ravers, as well as your statements about how police, including yourself, will blindly enforce a "law" no matter how ridiculous, proves it. You, and all other police officers who are like you, which is most but not all police officers, are simply henchmen for the court system and it can be proven that the entire court system in this country is a foreign, communist and invading aristocracy which the Constitution expressly forbids! Remember that Hitler's goons were simply doing "their job" or "what they were told to do" and many of them were tried at Nurenburg and executed for it! The truth is that you, and police officers like you, mindlessly follow the orders of traitors, thieves and knaves (i.e. judges and attorneys), and arrogantly and cruelly butcher the lives of people, sometimes physically, most of the time psychologically, spiritually and emotionally, which is far worse than just physically; (6) My mind is only as made up as the facts about this fraud that calls itself our public government determine it should be. Change those facts and my outlook will change in turn; (7) You say that you agree
with most of what I posted on July 6, 1999, including the presence and criminality of the so called New World Order. I believe you only said that so it wouldn't be too obvious that you do not and never did serve the people of your community. However, just in the off chance that you might be a "good" cop, despite your comments that I have read, I will give you the following opportunity to PROVE IT: you have my email address so you can easily contact me; I have legal evidence proving ongoing fraud, theft, extortion, TREASON, etc. (i.e. PROSECUTABLE CRIMES) on the part of those who profess to be our public servants; You accept this evidence from me and begin, or get someone else to begin, prosecuting these so called public servants RIGHT NOW; I can begin by emailing you some of it and follow up by
sending the rest of it to you by mail or by otherwise delivering it to you; just tell me where to send it to, and when to show up to the inevitable Grand Jury hearings. Failure to take me up on this proposal would simply
mean that you are in the "about 60% who simply want an easy, lazy and comfortable existence and will blindly obey whoever can give them that, regardless of whether or not the person they are obeying is of good moral character and some of that 60% will even get quite militant if you try to
point out the immorality of their ways" category I referred to in my comment of July 6, 1999. It would also mean that you are one of the "militant 60% who simply want an easy, lazy and comfortable existence," so militant in fact that you will go to the extreme of continuing to post comments here in an attempt to lead people away from the real truths about police today!
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Thursday, July 15, 1999 at 19:55:42 (MDT)
Ross---I wasn't specifically directing my comments at you, no. But now that you bring it up, I would like to respond to what you wrote. I'll do it tomorrow when I'm not so tired. It's coming up on 1AM and I'm falling asleep here at the computer. Just wanted to post a quickie message so that you don't think I'm ignoring you.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, July 14, 1999 at 01:49:25 (MDT)
Retired/injured: by talking about the intelligence, or lack thereof, of the posts, are you referring to my own posts? Just wondering, because all of what I said is true. If you are referring to my posts, please point out the problems/inaccuracies/lack of logic/etc in them, as you see it. Thank you for respecting everyone else's opinion. That's quite fair of you. (I realize that my comments may be somewhat incoherent, but I'm not feeling particularly "illuminated" at the moment, and readers should be able to piece them together, with some luck. Sorry for any confusion.)
Ross <homiegroy@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, July 13, 1999 at 21:00:04 (MDT)
ugh......It's getting impossible to hold an intelligent conversation in here. While I respect everybody's opinions, I must question the intelligence and education that these comments are coming from. I think I'll wait until summer vacation is over so the kids can go back to school and get off the computer. If you want to be treated like an adult, act like one and hold an intelligent conversation, discussion, or argument.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Tuesday, July 13, 1999 at 20:34:10 (MDT)
Regarding Avenger's remark about the two cops playing cops and robbers - consider it population control. In a town of 708 (8 of which are the 8 new cops), the "shooter" just reduced the total population by 0.14%. Or reduced your "new" problem by 12.5%.
Disgusted
USA - Tuesday, July 13, 1999 at 20:09:08 (MDT)
BTW, according to, I don't recall where, but I believe that it was an "accurate" source, being a farmer or trucker is twice as dangerous as being a cop. Are you surprised? Do you believe it? I like the farmers a lot more, anyway. :)
Ross <homiegroy@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, July 13, 1999 at 19:59:41 (MDT)
Shit, this doesn't put in returns! Dammit! That makes everything hard as hell to read! Steve!
Ross <homiegroy@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, July 13, 1999 at 19:55:29 (MDT)
Hmmm... various points:
From observance of local cops, at a University:
-they don't ticket basketball fans/players cars, but they do everyone else's
-they don't stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk, as is the law
-they SPEED, and faster than the other, civilian speeders
Just three, SEEMINGLY small things that cops do. They do not follow the law themselves, and often aren't interested in enforcing the law. Most cops, (although not all!), are just Machiavellian assholes who use their position of power to bring themselves above the law. Like courts who don't allow criticism of themselves...
Think about it... if crime was eliminated, cops would have no jobs. With reduced crime comes reduced funding. How many of them *actually* want to stop "crime"/"help" people? I don't know.
Primay reasons I dislike cops:
-they enforce the word of others, like soldiers using the excuse, "I was ordered to do it!", after killing a village of civilians, unprovoked
-they SELECTIVELY do their job (ie ticketing only some people)
-they are assholes (refer to above, I guess) you know: harassing skateboarders, etc
Just some various thoughts. I felt that I relayed some good points here (a lot of them not of my own mind). Thanks for reading (if you did).
Ross
Ross <homiegroy@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, July 13, 1999 at 19:54:32 (MDT)
I come from a small town in ohio pop. somewhere about 700 recently the town council has hired 8 pigs most of them rent a cops these pigs are coming from large citys nearby since they have been here they have chiped away at our basic rights searching cars looking in windows and even spraying mace into the eyes of a inocent lady u fuckin pigs we will not lay dorment while you fucks use your job to get your jollys grow a dick and get a real job!!!!!......on the lighter side there was 2 pigs playing cops and robbers in town and the one shot the other one......FUCK U PIGS
avenger
USA - Tuesday, July 13, 1999 at 16:07:48 (MDT)
I have to admit... I enjoy the comments... some of which on your part are damn good. Can't say I'd get too worked up about somebody excercising their 1st Amendment rights... now we just have to keep the damn things... since they seem to be on the verge of going next in this micromanaged country... I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we ended up in a revolution before too long if things keep going the way they are. Like to hear your comments about that 5 or 6 year old boy that got labeled as a sexual predator for kissing that lil girl classmate... or the 4 billion dollars GM has to pay out after that lawsuit... I wonder if it's the lawyers that we should be slamming and Ok I'll give you the few "Bad Apple" Officers out there... I am an Officer but, bottom line... family comes first... "My" family... not the Blue one... Keep on shaking things up... although somethings I kinda cringe reading others you make your point!!! Although I may not agree with all that you've said I think one should stand for what they believe in and those that get all pissed off about it... deal with it... we're still in the good ole USA
DJ <DEEJROKZ@Aol.com>
St.Louis, Mo USA - Tuesday, July 13, 1999 at 01:54:29 (MDT)
It's amazing how do so many people find out that Steve is a drug dealer, rapist, child molester, scum bag, and a loser. I can't seem to find those statements anywhere on this website. As USER3665 stated, we (people) are too quick to judge others. This does not just apply to "people", too quickly judging police, but people too quickly judging other people as well. You never know. Your next door neighbor may someday rape you, rob you, kill you, etc., etc., (which has nothing to do with Steve), so don't wait for Steve's death. Steve, "DUDE, get a room!" Citizen Target, no one said it any better than Elvis, "Thank you. Thank you very much."
Disgusted
USA - Tuesday, July 13, 1999 at 01:33:40 (MDT)
[Snip: the exact same thing she wrote below. So nice
you had to say it twice? Learn how to use your browser, lady.
--steve]
allison <cutinbangs@aol.com>
Kansas City, Mo USA - Monday, July 12, 1999 at 17:52:23 (MDT)
I can't wait till the day that you like all the other drug dealers,
rapists, child molesters, scum bags, and losers like yourself get shot and
killed by the police so I can feel like I can walk down the street safely
and laugh at your dead body. [Oooh, a feisty
one. Let's have sex. --steve]
allison <cutinbangs@aol.com>
Kansas City, Mo USA - Monday, July 12, 1999 at 17:52:15 (MDT)
Damn, a surge of rational posts !!! What's this website coming too ??
Nice going, Bryan, Middle Ground ... not so bad yourself, Retired/Injured.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Saturday, July 10, 1999 at 20:15:22 (MDT)
Steve, I took the time to read your website and guestbook in its entirety.I must say that as a police officer I wish that other officers had done the same thing before posting some of their comments. (As I recall someone stated "We are our worst enemies")I understand that you do not promote the killing of police officers, however you are an advocate of self defense. I can assure you that I do not want to come to your house, harass your family, ect ect. (Much like some of the postings I have seen here.) I think that you are expressing your rights as a citizen under the constitution and should be allowed to say what you like, regardless if it offends me or not. Where I come from, police misconduct is not tolerated under any circumstances and officers are not condemned if they report other officers for criminal acts. I am proud of my career and I am proud of the department that I work for. Thanks for letting me get my two cents in.
Bryan
USA - Saturday, July 10, 1999 at 05:27:08 (MDT)
1% always make the headlines. The other 99% who do good for their communities never get
the recognition they deserve. I'd hate to see what would happen in a lawless society.
The big picture is there are one percenters in every job or occupation functioning in
the world today. The ones who are clearly charged with the task of upholding the very
fiber of our communities are extremely easy targets when it comes to all the bad baggage.
What good things do you ever hear about? I'm sure they occur daily in every community around
the world. We should certainly weed out the bad who are entrusted with upholding our nations
laws, but at what price? Maybe people in our communities should do a little more to help the
situation. Afterall, we have become the "ME" society and to hell with everyone else. Respect
is something that appears to be of the past. I don't mean respect of the badge, but of people
in general.
middle ground
mo USA - Friday, July 09, 1999 at 20:29:44 (MDT)
One more quick comment....You say that "911 is a joke". Now you are going beyond the police argument and are going after the dispatchers. I was also a dispatcher for many years before I was a cop. You are speaking from such an ignorant and uninformed point of view. 911 Dispatchers work very hard, and in my opinion, is one of the toughest jobs out there. You can write whatever you and I will no longer respond to your comments. As always, I respect your opinion, however I will not have a discussion with someone who is so blatantly ignorant and uninformed about the topic.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, USA - Friday, July 09, 1999 at 14:58:57 (MDT)
Big Nasty: Just as I thought. You have done no research on the case. You only repeat what the news media has been putting out. Too bad you are so easily brainwashed by them. And regarding this comment: "Cop or no cop, this is why we clash with each other and somehow it will not end until the point breaks.", all I can say is "huh?".
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Friday, July 09, 1999 at 14:52:57 (MDT)
Cop or no cop, this is why we clash with each other and somehow
it will not end until the point breaks.
Big Nasty
USA - Friday, July 09, 1999 at 10:54:03 (MDT)
911 is a joke and the police is a joke.
Big Nasty
USA - Friday, July 09, 1999 at 10:50:38 (MDT)
Hey Retired/Injured Cop,
Who hell do you think you are. I don't think so retired cop because
Mumia was wrongly accused of killing a police officer and the City of Philadelphia has framed him
for what he did ok. Listen up, many innocent lives were lost by those
cop thugs and many around the country are fed up with police brutality.
Retired/injured Cop you have your own opinion while I have mine and if you
don't like then stay out of the kitchen. FOP is an ass in the grass.
Big Nasty
USA - Friday, July 09, 1999 at 10:46:34 (MDT)
Badge or no badge, this site IS for everyone. Besides, cophaterA has the same issues as cophaterB. I don't see any point in preaching to the preacher. So, without badges and ex-badges, this site would be a big room with big echoes.
Disgusted
USA - Friday, July 09, 1999 at 00:28:53 (MDT)
Big Nasty: This web site is for whoever the webmaster says it is for.
Who made you boss? Come back to reality sir. If the webmaster (I believe
it is Steve) asks me to leave, I will leave. The audacity of some people!
As far as Mumia, you and the other supporters of him better check your
facts. He murdered a person in cold blood. He did not change his name to
"Mumia" until after he was in prison. He's a very smart con that knows
how to work the system, and knows how to work people. He's got people
like you up in arms about him being in prison. He makes me sick. What do
you know about that specific case other than the lies that the news media
puts out, and other than what the celbrities are saying? Have you
actually taken the time to research the facts on the case? I know the
answer--it is no. Because if you did, you would not be making the
statements that you are. Now if you are saying to free him because of the
racist cops in Philadelphia, that is a different argument. If you are
saying that you don't care if he is guilty or innocent, but he should be
released because of things that OTHER cops have done, that is a different
argument. I'm just wondering what you are basing your statement on of
freeing a convicted murderer with an overwhelming amount of evidence
against him? He has already been turned down several times by either the
Supreme Court or the Appelate Court (I forget which--I think it's the
Supreme Court because all death penalty cases go for automatic appeal
anyway). [This might surprise some people, but I
personally have no strong opinions of the Mumia case. I've seen too much
speculation and evidence on both sides to make up my mind about him.
--steve] I would like to hear your answer. If you come back with
profanity and other useless ranting and raving, then that answers a few
questions that I have. I'll wait and see how you respond first.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Thursday, July 08, 1999 at 20:51:31 (MDT)
To all Cops,
If you don't like this website then don't. It like if you can't
stand the heat, get out of the kitchen type of expression. Police Officers can't
handle being offended by cophaters and too bad that every person
with a stink ass badge has to deal with everyday. All I can say is Screw'em
and free Mumia from the racist pigs in Philly.
Big Nasty
USA - Thursday, July 08, 1999 at 14:23:27 (MDT)
People like you should not reproduce. Have you ever stopped and considered the good things police do for you. Shitheads like you are are luck that there are police in this Country to protect your sorry ass. Because god willing you ever need police to help you, you will be thankful for their help. To all the officers out there be safe and lookout for these scumbags. I would like to thank you shitballs for the job security!
Police Officer
York, PA USA - Thursday, July 08, 1999 at 09:33:18 (MDT)
KILL DA BLUE PIGS!!!
ZA DOM - SPREMNI!!!
MZA of FIRMA 18 <hajduk88>
DUBROVNIK, CROATIA - Thursday, July 08, 1999 at 04:39:04 (MDT)
Good subjects, but getting a little too wordy lately.
Disguested
USA - Thursday, July 08, 1999 at 01:17:21 (MDT)
TYPING ERROR!
I am a cop that worked all night.
My last message should read: The webmaster will change "IT" if he does not agree with your message.
Dennis
USA - Wednesday, July 07, 1999 at 12:04:48 (MDT)
I know now that if you post a message that is not in line with the
webmaster's view point, he'll change.
An example would be the "Just Reward" poem I posted on July 6th.
[Wrong. I edited it because it's been posted
here literally hundreds of times and I'm getting pretty tired of
it. I like my version better. I even cleaned up the meter, which
was horribly mangled by the original "unkown author."
--steve]
Dennis
USA - Wednesday, July 07, 1999 at 11:33:55 (MDT)
I just want to ask all the cophaters out there:
Would you hate cops if both your mother and your father were
police officers? What if you never got to spend any time
with them because they worked the graveyard shift and were
at work while you were asleep in your bed? What if you thought
your life was in danger because of the fact that your parents
were cops? What if one day, as you were coming home from school,
one of your dad's best friends comes to you and informs you
that your dad was shot and killed at work that day? Would you
hate cops then? What if you got over your dad's death, just to wait
five months and thirteen days before you found out that your mother
was stabbed 13 times off duty in a grocery store by someone that
she arrested? Would you hate cops then? You probably don't believe
it, but all of this has happened to me. All you cophaters out there
should take a minute to think that even though some cops may be bad,
most of them have somebody who loves them.
-S-
USA - Wednesday, July 07, 1999 at 10:39:41 (MDT)
Steve, I'm a cop and I think your site is hillarious. There are an awful lot of morons
with an awful lot of time to kill. You could be a little more even-handed in dispensing
your wisdom though, stupid is stupid no matter which side of the issue you're on. Wake up
people it's a joke!!!
MOmountie
USA - Wednesday, July 07, 1999 at 09:42:27 (MDT)
To all cowards of the police department,
What do you eat another donut you fat pigs. Go to Dunkin Donuts you
morons.
Big Nasty
unknown, NY USA - Wednesday, July 07, 1999 at 07:44:54 (MDT)
Cool site. Tells it like it is. Fuck the police.
Cop Hater
USA - Wednesday, July 07, 1999 at 06:11:46 (MDT)
Regarding the "poem" posted below by Dennis [Note: Dennis posted the original insipid "Just
Reward" poem about a cop who gets into heaven. The version here
was edited by me into its current form. --steve].....When I read
these
kinds of things, it truly makes me sad. I sometimes wish the Internet was
not so "anonymous" so that I could meet face-to-face with people like
that to talk with them and try to figure out what happened along the way
to make them so hateful and disrespectful. I wonder if people like Dennis
spend the same amount of time and energy trying to spread the word about
child molesters, rapists, gang members, and others? What is it that makes
him, and people like him, hate the police SO much? Yes---there ARE bad
cops out there. When I see a cop get caught for doing horrible things, it
makes me sick. But at the same time it makes me happy to know that "the
system" is working better than it ever has in modern times. When a bad cop is discovered, he is fired, criminal charges are brought against him/her, and the appropriate prison term is given. Maybe my thinking is too simplistic when I try to figure what is going on in the minds of these people. The police are the GOOD GUYS! Of course, you can say "well what about the cop that shot this guy and got caught and went to jail and blah blah blah". Well, yes--you are 100% correct about that. But just because an extremely small percentage of the cops are bad (AND are taken care of!) does not mean that you have to hate every single one of them, and go around writing such terrible things about them. Like I said, I would really like to meet one of you people in person for a calm, rational discussion. I pride myself on keeping an open mind--so who knows? Maybe I might learn something from you that I did not know before, and vice-versa. I just don't understand where your hatred comes from. I mean, there is always the obvious reasons but I'm not talking about them. (The obvious stuff being: people who have been arrested are, generally speaking, not going to like the police. But not much can be done about that except to tell the people getting arrested to stop doing the crimes). If there is ANYBODY out there reading what I am saying, and have been saying recently, just post a quick message to this board and let me know you're there. Or send me a quick e-mail at the address I have listed here. I KNOW you cops are there but are being silent. Where is my "backup" when I need it? I'm asking for a code 2 roll-by for any unit in the area----okay? I feel like I'm talking to a wall. The only responses I see showing up here are more negative responses. And I KNOW that there are more cops here recently than usual because of, um, I don't want to give it away. How can I do this in "code" without violating the trust of a certain corporation? How about this--it should make some sense to a lot of cops: Since this topic was a very recent discussion in SSN #387, I know you're here. For those that don't understand that, don't worry about it. Doesn't this stuff make you guys/gals sick when you read these things? I'm still willing to keep an open mind and listen to the other side, but so far it's just a bunch of non-sensical yelling, off the wall comments, poems, and other meaningless things. Maybe that should tell me something about who I'm dealing with. Anyway, for those that understood what I said a few sentences ago, you don't have to post anything to this site if you don't want to. Just send an e-mail to me personally saying "I'm watching" or something very brief so that I at least know I'm not alone here in my quest to understand what is happening to the citizens in this country. We all know that suspects are getting more violent, more brazen, there's a lot more 148 stuff going on (Calif. code), and we're even seeing more of those "Constitutionalists" out there (or whatever they want to be called). I know it ain't much, but ever since I had to medically retire recently because of a severe on-duty injury, I've been doing what I can to piece some of these things together and do what I can to help in the capacity that I am now stuck with. I can't hit the streets any more and do it, so I am doing it the best way that i can using this method. Until my next post........
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Wednesday, July 07, 1999 at 00:23:46 (MDT)
JUST REWARD
The cop stood and faced his Maker,
Which must always come to pass.
He hoped his shoes were shining,
Just as brightly as his ass.
"Step forward now, officer
How shall I deal with you?
Have you always turned the other cheek?
To your Maker, been you true?"
The cop, with slouched shoulders,
Said "No sir, I guess I ain't.
Because those of us who carry badges
Can never be a saint.
I've had to work most Sundays
And at times my talk was rough,
And sometimes I've been violent,
Because I think I'm tough.
And I often took a penny,
That wasn't mine to keep.
Though I worked a lot of overtime
Beating perps like sheep.
I often passed cries for help
Because I shook with fear,
And showed my hate of citizens
By yelling "nigger" and "queer."
I know I don't deserve a place
Among the people here.
I blew every one of them away
And never shed a tear
But if you have a place for me here,
Well...it need not be too grand.
I never expected very much
So if you don't...I'll understand."
There was silence all around the room
Where the saints respectfully stood.
As the cop waited quietly,
For the judgment...bad or good.
"Step forward now, officer,
You haven't conducted yourself well
You aren't welcome on heaven's streets,
It's time to go to hell."
~ Author Unknown ~
Dennis
USA - Tuesday, July 06, 1999 at 17:59:24 (MDT)
This comment is directed at the comment just posted by Alec (I think I got your name right---again, because of the way the Guestbook is set up I can not see your comments while I write mine). I think you might be surprised to find that I agree with most of what you said. I am well aware of the lies and frauds going on in our "government", and the majority of the people in this country are asleep at the wheel. I do not know when they will wake up and see what is really going on around them. There have been some very serious war crimes that have happened in recent years, along with all sorts of other cover-ups, lies, scandals, etc. And no, I am not just referring to Clinton and the Democrats---I am not that short-sighted. I realized how the entire government as a whole has been infected, and I really don't know what we can now do to bring things back to the way they are supposed to be. I will say the I draw the line at being a "militia member" or one of the so-called "Constitutionalists" that drives around with a driver's license that is not issued by the DMV, but instead they have manufactured their own because they are only "following the Constitution". I have studied these groups as part of my prior occupation and I know what these people are really up to. In my opinion, they've got a screw loose and I want nothing to do with their organizations. But I do agree about the governments cover-ups and murders including Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc. There is some MAJOR behind-the-scenes stuff going on that would shock people if they knew the truth. But it is impossible to get the truth to the citizens because their minds are now totally numb to almost all scandal, thanks to the master plan of Clinton and the new world order. The worst is yet to come. But none of this stuff really has anything to do with the topic of this web page, so I don't know if the Webmaster will allow this topic to continue. It doesn't seem appropriate to me--there are other forums for discussing these things. I know how it must appear to somebody on "the outside" of a police department, and I know that your mind is made up and no matter what I say will not change your mind. But all I can say is, I WAS on the inside for 13 years and I can guarantee you that, at least at the local city police level, there is NO conspiracy or cover-up or anything else going on. The cops are not hired from the "Planet Perfect"---they are hired from the general population and put through a training academy. As far as the problems you have had with Long Beach PD and others, there are always two sides to every story and I would love to hear the full story on the problems you had. I find it hard to believe that you went to the watch commander and he was not helpful to you. If this is in fact true, then I question the significance of the topic of conversation you brought up to him. I can tell you from personal experience that is somebody comes to me (as a police officer) ranting and raving like a lunatic, throwing things out like "Constitution" and court cases and other things that you mentioned in your post, I will not really listen to what you are saying. I will basically just hear "blah blah blah blah". I'm not saying that to be dis-respectful, but I am saying this so that you know about human nature and more specifically, the police. As you pointed out, the cops don't make the laws or set the policy--they just do what they're told. I have taken people to jail before where I have honestly felt sorry for them because the law was ridiculous and I did not believe in it, but that is not up to me. I am required to do it, and if I am not going to do it then I am in the wrong profession (an example of that is a boyfriend/girlfriend dating since 8th grade, and then when they are seniors in high school, the male turns 18 and the female is 17 for another 3 months---because they are having sex, he is now committing stat. rape of a minor---a felony sex crime! I just do not agree with that--it's too traumatic for everyone involved. But it is not my place to agree or disagree---it is my job to enforce the laws whether I like it or not). Remember, I do agree with most of what you said. But this is a HUGE, complex topic that probably does not belong in this web page. But I'm not the dude in charge of that stuff, so it's not my decision. Again, something is out of my hands. So maybe if the Webmaster comes in and tells you to take your topic to a different forum, maybe HE is part of the mass government conspiracy also. :)
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Tuesday, July 06, 1999 at 11:32:43 (MDT)
How do I add existing text files to your guestbook? I have legal documentation proving that the United States Constitution has been USURPED FOR OVER 60 YEARS and that all government officials, and especially the court system, are operating under an illegal body of corporate policy that they have the nerve to call law. In all fairness, many, if not most, of those government officials, apart from judges and prosecuting attorneys that is, do not realize that they are upholding and enforcing an illegal body of corporate policy and educating them as to just what they are a part of, in the hope that they will attempt to put a stop to it, is an excellent course of action. I believe that your biggest stumbling block here will be the reluctance of those government officials to give up their comfortable lifestyles and they will most certainly have to give up at least some of their comforts if they want to contribute in any manner in eradicating this illegal body of corporate policy.
Regarding User3665@aol.com's statements, the ongoing usurpation of the United States Constitution and its resulting corruption of the law, and of the mentality of government officials in general, places his statements in the realm of fantasy. I, personally, have had contact, on numerous occasions, with the Long Beach police, as well as many other police departments in the greater Los Angeles area. Only once did they even begin to do what they profess to be their job, even though I did communicate with either a sergeant or with the watch commander on every occasion in an attempt to get results. This does not mean that just about every police officer that I came in contact with was bad, although there were many of those and, when they were bad, they were HORRIBLE. Taking all of my contacts with the police as a whole: about 25% of the police officers want to do the right thing but feel that their hands are tied because of this or that constraint, usually departmental policy; about 60% simply want an easy, lazy and comfortable existence and will blindly obey whoever can give them that, regardless of whether or not the person they are obeying is of good moral character and some of that 60% will even get quite militant if you try to point out the immorality of their ways; the remaining 15%, the really horrible scum of the earth, are so bad that it is fair to say that they are guilty of the same crimes and atrocities against humanity that we accuse the worst nations on Earth of, and worse, because this horrible scum also engages in spiritual, mental and psychological torture in addition to physical torture and I have PERSONALLY felt their brand of torture.
Here is a very brief overview of the legal documentation I have to whet your appetite just a little. It starts with the money system in the United States. In summary, the money in this country is FRAUD and FORBIDDEN by the United States Constitution. The Federal Reserve, which controls the fraudulent money, is a private corporation (Lewis v US, April 19, 1982) to which Congress has even blatently handed legislative powers (UCC 3-102(c)). However, that is a minor sidenote to what Congress has really done. Taking all of the following together:(1) 12 U.S.C. 95A & 95B; (2) Senate Report 93-549; (3) Erie Railroad v Tompkins (1938 Supreme Court case); one can see that the United States has been made a wholly owned subsidiary of the Federal Reserve and that the United States Constitution, and all of OUR God given rights as sentient beings, have been mortgaged as collateral towards the fraudulent so called national debt that has been created by the Federal Reserve's fraudulent money. How fitting it is that, as time goes on, you see more and more government officials showing less and less respect as a whole for the people they are supposed to serve and some, especially judges, attorneys and police, even stooping so low that they are guilty of war crimes, other crimes and atrocities against humanity and various other human rights violations.
The sooner you reply back to me, the sooner I can add my legal evidence to your guestbook so that you can spread the word. Hope to hear from you soon.
Alec Destry <xode@lanset.com>
Long Beach, CA USA - Tuesday, July 06, 1999 at 04:09:27 (MDT)
I apologize in advance for asking such a stupid question, but can
somebody give me the URL on how to get to the area that shows what people
were killed by the police, and the listing of names, etc, etc...? I was
e-mailed the URL for the Guestbook a while ago, and this is the only part
that I have seen. I do not know how to get to the other areas that people
have been referring to. Thanks in advance. [Right here.
--steve]
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Tuesday, July 06, 1999 at 00:26:51 (MDT)
" ... why so many cops come to
"copkiller.org" ... whenever a web site comes out that
deals with police in a serious, negative manner as this one does,
word spreads very quickly."
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Monday, July 05, 1999 at 22:38:06 (MDT)
if i ask nice, will you go to my shitty little website?
if not go there to see some nakid chix....[OK, OK,
I'll link to hektik, since I asked you if I could all those months ago.
I'm lazy, so sue me. :P --steve] -kenny-
kenny <root@hektik.com>
slc, ut USA - Monday, July 05, 1999 at 13:58:28 (MDT)
I forget to mention one more thing. You were asking why so many cops come to "copkiller.org", and that answer is very easy. Whenever a web site comes out that deals with police in a serious, negative manner as this one does, word spreads very quickly. Good cops are those that do as much research as possible on everything they can that would help them in their job. I can guarantee to you that there are many, many more cops reading this web page than are actually making comments. We also subscribe to a confidential online newsletter that periodically gives us updates of "copkiller" web sites and sites similar to that. This is defintely not the only one out there---there are plenty of others to look at. So it is not uncommon at all to see the police posting messages on these pages---as a matter of fact, it is quite ordinary.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Monday, July 05, 1999 at 09:49:19 (MDT)
TO: Disgusted. Thank you for responding to my comments. I'll try to respond to most of your comments, but because of the way the guestbook is set up, I can't look at what you wrote as I write my new comments so I'll have to try to remember what you said. There is probably an easier way to do this, but since I'm not exactly a computer guru I'll just have to do it this way. First let me say that I'm sorry that you and your family/friends have been "statistics" so frequently. It's amazing the curve balls life throws us--believe me, I know about being thrown things in life that suck and are totally unexpected. But going back to the original comment about the officer watching the train----I realize that I am at a big disadvantage because I was not there and did not see what you did. However, I feel it is stretching it a bit to be able to ascertain what the cop's purpose was just by his posture. I'm sure a picture is worth a thousand words, and if I saw what you did, perhaps I would be making the same comments as you. But I suppose my point on this was, too many people (perhaps not this incident though) are WAY too quick to make judgements on what the police are doing without first knowing the facts. All I am asking is to give the police, and everybody in life, the benefit of viewing things through an un-biased, un-prejudiced mind. If we all went through life making decisions based upon one little snippet of information, we would be in a world of hurt because we don't know all the facts. I have seen it happen time and time again in my profession. I tended to handle things a little bit differently whenever a citizen would walk by and make a comment to me about what they THINK is going on. Most cops would give that person a dirty look, or make an unnecessary rude comment, or whatever. But instead, I chose to take the time to call that person over to me and explain to them exactly what is going on and WHY we are doing what we are doing. That way, the person (or persons) would leave there with a better feeling and understanding of the police. If cops would lose that "badge heavy" attitude that a lot of them do have, and take the time out to explain to people why they are doing certain things, it would reduce a lot of the friction in societ against the police. In the specific incident that you witnessed, it would have been very appropriate for you to either call or stop by the police station and speak with the watch commander. You could calmly explain to his boss what you saw, and the you would like an explanation. Maybe everything could have been cleared up right there on the spot for you. Or, maybe it would have confirmed your initial suspicions and then that officer would have received counseling or a written reprimand by his superiors. There are always proper ways to go about these things. And the other thing I wanted to talk about briefly is your experience when you car broke down and you found the cops in the McDonald's. First of all, I NEVER took my lunch break in a public place (such as a restaurant). I could never get an peace and quiet there---there was always somebody who wanted to come over and tell me their life story, or a little kid that comes over and the parent lets me "babysit" their kid while they eat their food, or whatever. I just preferred to take my lunch break in peace and quiet by going back to the police station and "brown bagging" it in our lunch room. Everybody in every occupation deserves a lunch break and a coffee break or two throughout the day. The problem with police officers is that when they stop to eat, everybody knows it because when you pull into the parking lot of the restaurant, you see the police cars sitting there. Or, when you walk into the restaurant, you see the police sitting there. And when that happens, the cynical citizens will usually make an ignorant comment like "lazy cops---stuffing their faces instead of out there catching the bad guys". Well, in my opinion, that's a little ridiculous. They are entitled to eat just like everybody else. But anyway, like I said, just to avoid those kinds of things I preferred to eat at the police station to avoid all that stuff. Now, as far as the comments that the police made to you, in my opinion that was not appropriate. You have a tremendous amount of power over the police and their behavior, but most people don't use it properly. They just think that by calling the police names and whispering things about them behind their back is going to take care of it---but it does nothing but build the wall higher and thicker between you and the police. The best thing you could possibly do is again, go to the police station or call on the phone and speak to the watch commander. Tell the boss what happened, and what the officers said to you. These kinds of things the boss MUST know about his people. If citizens don't tell the boss what his employees are doing, how are they supposed to know?? And just as a sidenote here, it is very true that cops are not tow trucks. I can't speak for other departments, but in my department we were prohibited from giving rides to people with car trouble unless it was a special situation----such as a pregnant woman, or it's late at night and a woman with her kids is alone, or any other one of a number of things that could be a safety concern. But if a healthy man has his car break down and he is close to a phone, call a tow truck or a friend or a family member, or whatever. But unless the broken down car is in the middle of the street blocking traffic, there's not a thing the police can do for you. It sounds like you might have caught them at a bad time---I really don't know. But that is no excuse for what they said to you. That was very unprofessional of them to make that comment. If it was me in that situation, I would have explained to you what our department policy is, and if I found out through asking you some questions that it was simply a broken down car that was not blocking traffic, i would have directed you to some other alternative mode of assistance (tow truck, friend, taxi, etc.). Giving people rides to their homes when their cars break down does NOT fall under the category of "Protect and Serve". And that is not chosen by the cops who work the streets---those decisions are made way up at the top of the ranks. The cops are just following department policy. If they violate that department policy, they could get themselves into some serious trouble. I hope you can see what I am saying. I am not discounting at all what you said---my point is to simply try to let you, and others, realize that there is usually much more going on in the process then just the little chunk that you see or hear. Thanks.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Monday, July 05, 1999 at 09:38:12 (MDT)
User3665, regarding Train-spotter, you are absolutely right. You were not there, and I only had the few seconds to observe him as I passed by (luckily, on the other side of the road). But by his posture, he was not interested in runaway villians. In the case that the cop was looking for a fiend, I think he should have been thinking of the safety of the public (in this case, motorists), first. I'm sure cops do good everyday. I just have not experienced any of those good deeds, thus far. Although, I do know what it is like to be a statistic, directly and indirectly. I also have many friends and family who also have been tick marks on the stat-sheet. For example, a friend of mine owns a jewlery store (I'm sure you know where this is going). Let's just say that "they" were in a world of hurt, nothing was recovered, there was no satisfaction of knowing that they guy(s) that robbed them were caught, and now own a shotgun. My ex-girlfriend was beat by her ex-husband. Well, she's emotionally messed up, and also nothing more than a statistic. Right after high-school, I inherited my folk's beat-up old car, which over-heated on the freeway. I managed to get it off the freeway, saw a couple of cops, tracked them down (in a McDonalds), thinking "if they don't help me, nobody will". I explained the situation and asked for assistance. I was rewarded with, "That's not our job. Call a cab or something." To serve and protect? Perhaps. From experience, cops don't serve, cops don't protect. On top of that, we have brutality (not to mention killings) by police and other law enforcement agencies. These days, I'm glad I don't rely on cops if I'm in trouble. A case of mistaken identity and I could be beat or killed, on arrival. I'm also VERY curious to know why SO many cops are finding their way to a website called "COPKILLER.ORG".
Disgusted
USA - Monday, July 05, 1999 at 04:29:26 (MDT)
TO: "Disgusted" who saw a cop park in a dangerous manner to watch a train go by from an overpass. I would like to make a comment about what you witnessed. First of all, it is entirely possible that what you are interpretting what you saw is correct. But since I have the experience of being a cop for several years, there is one thing that I have found to be true over and over again and that is misunderstandings between the police and the public. There are so many things that cops do that the public can misinterpret. Police do things for a reason, and I would not expect a non law enforcement person to understand those things. Until you have gone through the training and worked the streets, there are so many things that you just can't possibly understand. And this does not apply just to police work. This same thing applies to many jobs. I would assume probably the same thing for doctors. There are no doctors in my family and I don't know any doctors except for the ones that treat me and that is only on a doctor/patient basis---but a lot of the general public feels that doctors spend a good amount of time on the golf course and over in Hawaii on vacation. Well, maybe they do---I really don't know, but that is a typical observation and those comments come up frequently when people begin to talk about doctors. But none of us have been in their shoes to know what their job is like. I'm sure they work very hard when they are at work, and since they make good money and they see a lot of trauma and human suffering, those are the things they do to relieve stress. I don't know---I'm just taking guesses here. But my point goes back to that of misunderstanding. We see things much differently than they actually are. And in the case where you saw the police officer park on the overpass to watch a train, I was wondering if you considered any other possible scenarios. Such as: the officer received a call on the radio and was dispatched to investigate the train because of reports of juveniles on the roof of one of the boxcars. The officer went to the quickest place that he could think of where he could have a good view of the train from up high, and it happened to be the overpass. If he would have picked out a safer place to view the train from above, it would be too late and the train would be gone into another jurisdiction. Police officers park illegally and in precarious positions all the time---they are allowed to. I wasn't there to witness what you did, so I don't know how unsafe it was that he parked. I would assume he turned on his warning lights while parked there? Maybe not--again, I was not there. It is so easy to "monday morning quarterback" somebody's decision, but when YOU are the person out there trying to do the job it's a lot harder than it looks. And yes, the police make mistakes. It is entirely possible that the officer you saw was wrong and he parked in a position that he should not have. It's amazing to me how quick people are to get angry and point out things like this that the police do, yet so hesitant to give them praise when praise is due. I guess that's just human nature. So please do not take what I am saying the wrong way. As I stated previously, I was not there and did not witness what you did so it is entirely possible that your interpretation of what you saw is indeed what was happening. My point is to just make you aware of the fact that there are other possibilities too, and maybe to not be so quick to judge those things that we do not have the facts on.
Retired/Injured Cop <User3665@aol.com>
Bay Area, CA USA - Sunday, July 04, 1999 at 15:37:58 (MDT)
Cop Threatens to Glock Cop
... as part of (ex-officers') guilty plea, he agreed to forfeit $22,808, two pieces of property, one in Baldwin Township, the other in Belle Vernon, computer equipment and 20 firearms, including eight handguns and two assault rifles ...
Just before this officers' arrest he pulled a Glock, pointed it at a DEA agent, and stated:
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Sunday, July 04, 1999 at 10:54:42 (MDT)
GREAT SITE, REALLY SCARY, BUT TRUE. THERE ARE NOT ONLY CRIMES AGAINST CITIZENS, THERE ARE ALSO CRIMES AGAINST FELLOW OFFICERS. HARASSMENT, SEXUAL HARASSMENT, DISCRIMINATION. IF YOU PLAY THE GAME AND YOU KISS ASS, YOU GOT IT MADE. IF YOU JUST OUT THERE DOING THE JOB, YOU GET FIRED. IF YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH BECAUSE YOU TURN IN ANOTHER OFFICER, YOU GET FIRED. THE BOTTOM LINE IS: KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT AND KISS ASS AS GOOD AS YOU CAN AND YOU WILL MAKE IT IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.
JANE DOE
USA - Sunday, July 04, 1999 at 04:54:56 (MDT)
This comment is directed at Rene who believes the cops in the Tyisha Miller case did wrong, and that there should be citizen review boards with "teeth". I would like to debate this issue with you here, but only if you a) would like to, and b) will keep the conversation civil and intelligent. I'm not into yelling and arguing--I'm into respecting people and their opinions. If you are interested, let me know because I have strong thoughts and feelings on that topic (and others that are similar). Thanks.
Retired/Injured Cop
Bay Area, CA USA - Saturday, July 03, 1999 at 21:47:52 (MDT)
A real Horror Site , now i can understand the " Bodycount "
Songs. But now i can understand the GWAR Stageshow.
Fuck Police Brutality
Hey , !!! Have anybody the Copkiller Song ????
Plase send me the mp3 song ! Thanks
M.Buchholz <MalteB@excite.com>
Cologne, Germany - Friday, July 02, 1999 at 19:52:42 (MDT)
You should add Tyisha Miller to your list of innocent victims killed
by police. She was was a 19 year old black woman, shot in her car on
December 28, 1998 by the police less than seven minutes after they
arrived to "help" her. (Her friends and family found her unconscious in
her car later at night and called 911 for help. They had to witness the
shooting and the racist remarks made by other police afterwards.) [Ms. Miller had a loaded gun in her lap, even though she
was most likely too disoriented to use it, or even to understand that the
person banging on her window was a cop. In my opinion, her death wasn't a
murder, as were all of the deaths of the innocents listed on my page.
Stupid, tragic, and negligent, yes, but not murder. --steve] I
don't advocate violence of any sort, although I certainly understand your
argument. I belong to a coalition of activists determined to put a
community police review board into place--a review board with legal teeth
to stop such killings as well as racist profiling and other forms of
abuses and brutality.
Rene T.A. Lysloff <lysloff@mail.ucr.edu>
Riverside, CA USA - Friday, July 02, 1999 at 17:02:14 (MDT)
Gee Steve...from the sounds of it, you're a disgruntled crook who got nabbed for it, and now just wanna blame the cops for your own stupidity!
Of course there are "bad cops", but they are the minority.
Joe Citizen
Canada, Canada - Tuesday, June 29, 1999 at 20:37:48 (MDT)
oh no im scared shitless of your web site i think ill quit law
enforcement and start smoking bud [That's the spirit.
--steve] gee if enough people like you speak up maybe there will
be no more cops or government wouldnt that be fun then with no laws i
could come over to your house and kill and fuck you and your whole family
[You pigs do that to people anyway. Why should the
lack of laws make any difference? --steve]
shaking in my boots <suck my pig dick [It's shaped like
a corkscrew? What a weirdo. --steve]>
cop land, mo USA -
Tuesday, June 29, 1999 at 14:37:57 (MDT)
Your e-mail war is weak. [Uh-oh, another
ignorant cop who doesn't know email from HTML. --steve]If you
really wanted to PLAY then you would get off you weak ass and get outside.
I'm a police detective and there are several things I abhorr. I am
disgusted at racism, child molesters, murderers and evil persons who hold
a public job. I am going to add another to my list now that cyber-wars
exist. I hate chicken-shits like you who use the comfort of his home to
protest his petty angers. If you really want to play then get out of your
house and put actions to your mouth.Your bashing of bad cops on the net
does nothing to help your IDEAS. It only incites other sleeches to
idiotic ideas. A sleech is the combination of a SLUG and a LEECH.
If you really want to start acting like youve got a pair then put your
photograph on your site. [It's on my site,
"Detective." So is my full name and general location. Let me guess: you
work for the Boulder PD, right? You guys are doing a bang-up job on that
Ramsey case...about as good a job as you do browsing web pages.
--steve] Quit hidding at your desk and being a pussy like you've
been all your life. [More irony from the
anonymous blowhard who couldn't even leave his email address. See
you around, wimp. --steve]
vino
Norman, Ok USA - Monday, June 28, 1999 at 08:47:20 (MDT)
This is not a statement to say that this is a bad cop, but to illustrate some irresponsible behavior of our "men-in-blue". Today, I witnessed a cop who parked his cruiser dangerously close to traffic over an overpass, while he leaned over to watch the train go by. Even a SLOW moving, unsuspecting motorist would not have seen and hit the cruiser, POSSIBLY pushing the cop over the overpass or even crushing him against the railing. Cops are entitled coffee breaks (or donut breaks) once in a while, but he should have used better judgement. In this case, he and unsuspecting motorists could have been hurt or killed. He is the "good guy", supposed to set good examples. This is the kind of thing, as "innocent" as it may be, that enhances the negative image of police.
Disgusted
USA - Saturday, June 26, 1999 at 23:07:33 (MDT)
heck, this site even has bad cops sign-in that got their computer free, seized from a seven year old kid whose bicycle was suspiciously parked askew on the kids' parents front porch.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Saturday, June 26, 1999 at 08:25:30 (MDT)
What truck did you fall off of? For you to suggest that all cops should be killed because they are cops, is probably the most absurd statement you could make. In your opening statement you said that it is not a crime to be a black male and drive a car. well guess what? it is not a crime to be a cop. society has good and bad in everything we do, good and bad cops, good and bad clergy,bankers,lawyers, politicians, mechanics, etc. heck, we even have good and bad people that have web pages on their $150.00 computer.
sareg6661 <Sarge6661@aol.com>
any town, ga USA - Saturday, June 26, 1999 at 01:13:24 (MDT)
Bob pulled over, like a good citizen. The cop walked up to the window and said, "You know how fast you were going, BOY?" Bob thought for a second and said, "Uhh, 60?" "67 mph, son! 67 mph in a 55 zone!" said the cop. "But if you already knew, officer" replied Bob, "Why did you ask me?"
Fuming over Bob's answer, the officer growled, in his normal sarcastic fashion, "That's speeding and you're getting a ticket and a fine!" The cop took a good close look at Bob, in his stained fishing attire and said, "You don't even look like you have a job! Why, I've never seen anyone so scruffy in my entire life!"
Bob answered, "I've got a job! I have a good, well-paying job!"
The cop leaned in the window, smelling Bob's fish catch, said, "What kind of a job would a bum like you have?"
"I'm a rectum stretcher!" replied Bob.
"What did you say, BOY?" asked the patrolman.
"I'm a rectum stretcher!", repeated Bob
The cop, scratching his head, asked, "What does a rectum stretcher do?"
Bob explained, "People call me up and say they need to be stretched, so I go over to their house. I start with a couple of fingers, then a couple more, and then one whole hand, then two. Then I slowly pull them farther and farther apart until it's a full six feet across."
The cop, absorbed with these bizarre images in his mind, asked, "What the hell do you do with a six foot asshole?"
Bob nonchalantly answered, "You give it a radar gun and stick it at the end of a bridge!"
Disgusted
USA - Friday, June 25, 1999 at 16:21:35 (MDT)
"One is only responsible for one's own actions". A criminal can commit armed robbery, run, engage in a gun-fight with local police. That criminal is responsible for his/her action. That criminal may or may not be part of any organization, but in either case, his/her actions reflect a negative image on "criminals". On the same note, law enforcement agencies refer to themselves as organizations, using terms like SWAT Teams, Police Departments, Special Forces, so on, so forth. Even if one "team member" engages in activities which disgraces the "team", it is reflected negatively (as you can see). All law enforcement agents are held accountable for upholding the "good guy image". There are bad cops. We all know it. "Fix it"! Like they say, "if you recognize a problem and don't do anything about it, you are only part of the problem". So far, all I've seen are excuses and cowardice attitudes, seperating the good cops from the bad cops. Bad cops will not go away just because you say, "It's not me. I'm a good cop". I am not condoning cop-killing, but if there are groups of "cop-killers" out there (and there probably are), they are cleaning up the mess that regular cops won't, most probably killing good cops in the process. Fix it, or you could be next.
Disgusted
USA - Thursday, June 24, 1999 at 23:39:53 (MDT)
Great site! I am putting a link on my page to yours. If you want it removed just ask.
ron jeremy <ronjeremy14@hotmail.com>
Morristown, TN USA - Thursday, June 24, 1999 at 22:47:46 (MDT)
Not sure why you think that cops who kill are any worse than any other cold blooded killer, but to each his own i suppose, and no, i really don't think i want to know. on your "good cops" page you think that we're all a bunch of whiney asses who won't send you pages about good cops, well, my site has a ton of them...start out at Linda Huff's page, a "good cop" who was murdered by a low life in the parking lot of the Idaho State Police District Office. unlike most people who hold the rest of the world responsible for a few people's actions, i don't think that every other white depressed drunk druggie is a cop killing scumbag, just this guy...so why would i want to believe that every other cop is the scum of the earth and that all pigs should die simply for the actions of a few?? until you live in the world behind the badge, don't go judging every cop by how YOU think they should act, in fact, don't go judging them at all. it's like when you were in school, and the whole class got punished because the bully in the back of the class was acting up...deal with the problems, not the innocent members of the society who aren't being a problem. in each incident that you speak of, you're hearing one side of the story...THE PRESS's...how often does the press cover BOTH sides of ANY story, let alone print the TRUTH??? i work in an industry where i see one side of things, hear the other side from officers, and then the next morning see some third side that never even entered the picture printed on the front page of the local rags. you can't make any kind of judgement based on the crap that's printed in the periodicals, period. get off your high horse and deal with what you know to be reality, and let the rest of the world handle what's in their reality, and hope that the two can get along if and when they chance to meet. glad to have encountered your page...and remember...a Mind is like a Parachute...it only functions when it's OPEN.
Kathy <rainbow10-96@bigfoot.com>
ID USA - Thursday, June 24, 1999 at 16:07:31 (MDT)
You can wake up from your nap now. You DO know where you are, right? You're in your cruiser. Your shoulder is wet with drool, with traces of white powdered sugar (or is it?). Keep dreaming. You are entitled to that. Just keep in mind that not all dreams come true, so don't get your hopes up.
Disgusted
USA - Thursday, June 24, 1999 at 12:01:54 (MDT)
Just A Cop
The funeral line was long,
There's an awful lot of cars,
Folks came out of the restaurants,
They came out of the bars.
The workers at the construction sites
All let their hammers drop.
Someone asked."What is this all for?"
And they said,"Aw, just a cop."
Some chuckled at the passing cars.
Some shed a silent tear
Some people said,"It's stupid."
"all these dumb policemen here."
"How come they're not out fightn' crime?"
"Or in a doughnut shop?"
"Sure is a lot of trouble,
For someone who's just a cop."
They blocked the intersections,
They blocked the interstate.
People yelled and cursed,
"Damn, it's gonna make me late!"
"This is really ridiculous!"
"They're makin' us all stop!"
"It seems they're sure wastin' time,
On someone who's just a cop."
Into the cemetery now,
The slow procession comes,
The woeful Taps are slowly played.
There's loud salutes from guns.
The graveyard workers shake their heads
"This service is a flop."
"There's lots of good words wasted,
On someone who's just a cop."
Yeah, just a cop to most folks.
Did his duty every day.
Tryin' to protect us,
Till they took his life away.
And when he got to heaven,
St. Peter put him at the top.
An angel asked him, "Who was that?"
And he said, "it’s just a cop."
(Author Unknown)
[More dead cops. These things rock. :)
--steve]
Net Cop <net-cop@justicemail.com>
USA - Thursday, June 24, 1999 at 11:56:48 (MDT)
A COP ON THE TAKE
FIRST HE TAKES THE OATH
NOW LOOK AT ALL HE TAKES
HE TAKES IT IN STRIDE WHEN PEOPLE CALL HIM PIG
HE TAKES TIME TO STOP AND TALK TO CHILDREN
HE TAKES YOUR VERBAL ABUSE WHILE GIVING YOU A TICKET YOU DESERVED
HE TAKES ON CREEPS YOU WOULD BE AFRAID TO EVEN LOOK AT
HE TAKES TIME AWAY FROM HIS FAMILY TO KEEP YOU SAFE
HE TAKES YOUR INJURED CHILDREN TO THE HOSPITAL
HE TAKES THE GRAVEYARD SHIFT WITHOUT COMPLAINT BECAUSE ITS HIS TURN
HE TAKES HIS LIFE INTO HIS HANDS DAILY
HE TAKES YOU HOME WHEN YOUR CAR BREAKS DOWN
HE TAKES TIME TO EXPLAIN WHY BOTH YOUR HEADLIGHTS HAVE TO WORK
HE TAKES THE JOB NO ONE ELSE WANTS -TELLING YOU A LOVED ONE HAS DIED
HE TAKES CRIMINALS TO JAIL
HE TAKES IN SIGHTS THAT WOULD MAKE YOU CRY
SOMETIMES HE CRIES TOO, BUT HE TAKES IT ANYWAY BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS TO
IF HE IS LUCKY, HE TAKES RETIREMENT
HE TAKES MEMORIES TO BED EACH NIGHT THAT YOU COULDNT BEAR FOR EVEN ONE DAY
SOMETIMES HE TAKES A BULLET [Woohoo! The more, the
merrier... --steve]
AND YES, OCCASIONALLY HE MAY TAKE A CUP OF COFFEE
THEN ONE DAY HE PAYS FOR ALL HE HAS TAKEN, AND GOD TAKES HIM
[Hey, I like this one. Please post more poems and
stories of cops getting what's coming to them. --steve]
Net Cop <net-cop@justicemail.com>
USA - Thursday, June 24, 1999 at 11:54:52 (MDT)
Nice guestbook dude. Thanks for letting us post anything we want. I
really like the long comment sections. [You
must be the smart debater who pasted in over a meg of blonde
jokes (which were deleted). Keep it up. I like taking accounts
away. If you can't argue your point, then resort to harassment?
Standard pig MO, I suppose. --steve]
Net Cops(we are here) <netcops@justicemail.com>
USA - Thursday, June 24, 1999 at 00:14:12 (MDT)
Hello, Mr. Pardon [Note: The name is "Pordon".
--steve] I left a message in your book a few months ago. I asked
why you didn't have links with each name on your list that gives us the
complete story. Your reply was that I could search for the story they
are on the internet. I have tried to verify some of those on your list
and so far have not been able to find one of them. I randomly picked
different names from your list more than 50 of them and so far I'm
unable to find any of these case you insist there has been wrong
doing. [That's interesting. I don't have 50
names there. --steve] If you are really wanting the public to
know you would have a link from each name going to the page that tells
the story I doesn't have to be a page you make just a link to those you
say are already made. Or could it be that most of these cases are false
and/or missleading and you don't want us to be able to read the whole
story. [You couldn't find a single one, eh? Try
copying a name (any name) from the list and do an altavista search
(www.altavista.com) on it. Make sure the search is in the format
+"firstname lastname" (quotes required). As an example, I chose
Dionesia Correa at random and altavista returned
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/3385/polbrut.html. If you need
more help using search engines, just ask. --steve]
Dean
USA - Tuesday, June 22, 1999 at 22:38:27 (MDT)
*** Fuck the Queensland Police Service ! ***
Anti Queensland Police Service page is back.
Some braindead state-hired sisterfucking thug in blue had it booted from xoom.com.
--------
Remember - The only good fascist is a dead fascist!
This applies just as much to pigs as it does to neo-nazi skinheads. (At least the skins have the balls to come out and fight like men - unlike some they have no compulsion to hide behind a badge and a fucking gun)
Freedom Fighter <qldpolice@mail1st.com>
Brisbane, QLD Australia - Tuesday, June 22, 1999 at 21:55:28 (MDT)
THIS COMMENT:
Why don't you assholes just admit that the reason you hate the police is because you are jealous? I think I will go hit the town now. I'll just shove a gun in my waistband (no permit needed for me), drive as fast as I want (no ticket for me), go have a few drinks (no charge for me in the right bars), and cruise on back home (no chance of a DWI charge for me). I love it. Please don't hate me because you can't be me. Just bow to your jealous desires.
a
Denver, CO USA - Thursday, June 10, 1999 at 14:55:44 (MDT)
Is exactly how most of these badged, trigger happy, nimrods think! They do not have the brains to get a real career so they think "gee I'd like to be a policeman duh-huh" and we end up with a police stations chocked full with an IQ of 12 (that may be a high figure it depends on the number of policeman wannabe's there are) and all are overzealous ready to shoot, spray, club, cuff, anything that moves. Anyway this "a" person is a real fine example of the typical badge wielding, feeble minded morons we have for law and order. Great.
ZDB <wealllose@thelegalhallsofshame.fff>
Indy, IN USA - Monday, June 21, 1999 at 15:40:14 (MDT)
i know that there are some bad cops out there..but cop killing is just as bad as them..two wrongs dont make a right.. my father was a good cop and was shot by a damn crack head.. so take this web page and stick it up your ass.
rick holmes <fuck you>
greenwood , ms USA - Monday, June 21, 1999 at 12:12:03 (MDT)
The Police can outdo the best petty criminals.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Sunday, June 20, 1999 at 21:39:14 (MDT)
Now you know why this page exists, crazed petty criminal like you. I bet you'd buy OJ a replacement pair of gloves.
S Gilbert
USA - Sunday, June 20, 1999 at 16:10:23 (MDT)
now here we stand in the middle of nowhere where cops diserve nothing, i hold the opinion that all cops can suck chode because if i twist the cap off into the rhuted section of nowhere land while consuming mass amounts of crack, while jumping around trying to make wine on the hood of my cutlass , i will still be nowhere i will just have grape juice on my fucking feet, i would rather have orange juice instead, cuz damnit i hate o.j. o.j. just lets kids no you call kill if you rich, so i am trying to make a fortune while getting nowhereso we are back to here, and at that i will close by saying ....
visit my shitty website: http://www.hektik.com
kenny <kenny@hektik.com>
USA - Saturday, June 19, 1999 at 10:45:20 (MDT)
TheTargetOnTheLeft <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Tuesday, June 15, 1999 at 07:46:56 (MDT)
Consider the following:
What is a bad cop?
This is precisely the definition the survivors of World War II
camps used to describe the Nazis. I have simply substituted
'bad cop' for 'Nazi' in the definition and replaced 'National
Socialism' with 'FOP'.
Citizen_Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Tuesday, June 15, 1999 at 06:39:20 (MDT)
I don't think bad cops should die. They should be rehabilitated - in concentration camps. I think what Little "a" was trying to tell us a few entries ago about jealousy is - "Take away the badge and gun, you take away the over-inflated self-esteem". I wouldn't exactly brag about being able to carry a gun in public, speeding, get free drinks - without getting caught. That's a very dangerous combination and you seem quite proud of it. I hope you don't come out of a bar, loaded (in more ways than one), and shoot a 10 year old kid, riding his bike nearby because you would like to see if you could hit a moving target in the dark, under the influence.
Disgusted
USA - Monday, June 14, 1999 at 23:42:35 (MDT)
Steve, it's a little big for conceal carry, but I recommend an AR-15 pistol. That should be pretty fun for when - if Little "a" decides to show up. Then again, I still have that bread knife you can borrow.
Disgusted
USA - Monday, June 14, 1999 at 23:30:22 (MDT)
To a (Keep in mind, that's "little a", must signify something). I'm curious. Even though they are just words, some may take your words as "death threats". I see a possible law suit, restraing order, and with your previous entries: revealing a "bad cop", since you have the resources to obtain Steve's residence, a conceal carry permit for Steve. From previous entries, we have people reading the guestbook from around the world. There are witnesses. Bottom-line, be careful of what you say, Little a.
Disgusted
USA - Monday, June 14, 1999 at 23:26:02 (MDT)
What's the matter, Stevie? Getting a little upset? Scared?
[Nope. When are you coming to Denver to
kill me? I've been waiting for like a week now. --steve]
a
Denver, CO USA - Monday, June 14, 1999 at 17:31:51 (MDT)
The pigs need to fuckin die, fuckin die, fuckin die. Those little fuckin peice of shit pulled me over for a crime I did not commit. I am going to blow those mother fuckin cock suckers to the mother fuckin ground. Dont fuck with me pigs.
Fuck You Pigs <Fuck No>
Compton, CA USA - Monday, June 14, 1999 at 02:25:19 (MDT)
Like the page...
anyone fuck with you about it?
Caleb <Caleb18542@aol.com>
Dallas, Tx USA - Sunday, June 13, 1999 at 19:36:45 (MDT)
Hey Steve, just thought I'd let you know I urinated on you moms grave,
after I shit on the head stone. [Did you? And where
do you suppose this "grave" is? --steve]
FUCK STEVE <FUCK STEVE>
DEAD MOMMY, NY USA - Sunday, June 13, 1999 at 18:27:35 (MDT)
To Teh Editor,
Now wait a minute because you think I am a Lieutenant, No I'm not and somehow I am changing e-mail address to make anyway. If you have a problem with the LT, I might not put up my e-mail address, ok and let this put it to rest and focus on copbashing. F**k The Police, f**k'em all.
David <Cardfather@yahoo.com>
New York, NY USA - Sunday, June 13, 1999 at 08:27:58 (MDT)
You probably won't answer this truthfully but here is a
question for you. If given a badge, do you think you
would be any different? Yes, you are right in saying that
the "BAD" police officers should be taken out. But killing
them will not solve your problem. Listen to me don't worry
about them and the things they do. Only worry about yourself
and no one else. I am a firm believer that those who try to
take a stand on issues too big for them will fall hard. And
the act of voicing your apinion like this is foolish.
Joe <here@yomammas.com>
USA - Sunday, June 13, 1999 at 02:31:16 (MDT)
Sounds like the FOP has gotten Steve a little bit upset. I was surprised to read about him even having a cock.
"Teh Editor"
USA - Saturday, June 12, 1999 at 22:46:02 (MDT)
Lawrence Taylor---my ass!! Why are you now using a different ID, Lieutenant?
"Teh Editor"
USA - Saturday, June 12, 1999 at 22:42:32 (MDT)
I knew you want to react to this thing and disregard the last
message I sent. Copbashing is cool and in this Racist city of
New York I really hate to see cops breaking down my door. I
will spread the word around with my friends about the website.
I say "F**K THE POLICE." Steve, can you support Mumia Abu Jamal?
Because he was framed by the Racist Legal System in Philadelphia for
murdering a Philly Cop in 1981 and he is on death row ever since and
Governor Tom Ridge will sign a death warrant anytime now and his defense
lawyer Leonard Weinglass is trying to get a new trial for him.
David <cardfather@yahoo.com>
USA - Saturday, June 12, 1999 at 17:59:33 (MDT)
Hey Steve, can you not put in my entry next time and also erase
the red line you added and put in the separate entry.
Dave <cardfather@yahoo.com>
New York, NY USA - Saturday, June 12, 1999 at 17:52:21 (MDT)
Your website is cool and I hope you don't get off the internet
server by those Fraternal Order of Police organizations. Better
be careful of the wordings because these guys are too sensitive.
[The FOP can suck my cock. I'll be happy
when they're all taken out by a fertilizer bomb. How's that
wording? --steve]
David Chan <cardfather@yahoo.com>
New York, NY USA - Saturday, June 12, 1999 at 07:00:32 (MDT)
It stands for Lawerence Taylor, a pro football player
David Chan <LT124@juno.com>
USA - Saturday, June 12, 1999 at 06:55:54 (MDT)
I'm just wondering what that "Lt124" in his e-mail address stands for.
"Teh Editor"
USA - Saturday, June 12, 1999 at 01:12:12 (MDT)
Go eat some rice and mellow out, David Chan. It would not hurt to brush up on your writing skills, either.
a
USA - Friday, June 11, 1999 at 14:43:17 (MDT)
There was another shooting a few weeks ago when a 16 year old
boy named Dante Johnson was shot by the Street Crime Unit Officer
in the Bronx. The reason he was shot was that Officer Conway capped
Johnson in the mid-section while the cop grabbed him from a patrol car.
Dante and another friend was hanging around the street when an unmarked
police car came and confronted a group of people and saw the
two teenagers running believing one of the teens has a gun. The two split
up to ditch the cops, the car catched up to Dante and that why the
shooting was intentional.
Dante has two surgeries to fix his damaged body and that bullet was
a police issued hollow point bullet. Then Mayor Giuliani and Police
Commissioner Howard Safir says that Dante should not stay out that
late, please you morons Dante has a right to hang out and you boneheads
tried to cover up for a cop who tried to killed a 16 year old boy. You
see how the asshole mayor and police commissioner tried to stop the bashing
of the NYPD. The mayor and the police commissioner are a disgrace to the city
of New York.
David Chan <lt124@juno.com>
New York, NY USA - Friday, June 11, 1999 at 13:44:34 (MDT)
To the Teheditor:
Well more than you can imagine, but do you think those cops
are a bunch of fun loving people? I say "screw the police"
and police commissioners should go to jail for letting
these cops get away with murder. Free Mumia! Police always
let their brains go buckwild.
David Chan <lt124@juno.com>
New York, NY USA - Friday, June 11, 1999 at 13:28:57 (MDT)
Right, don't f**k with the police.
Danny Peters and Jeremy Conn
Danny Peters an 11yr. old Detroit Youth
and his friend Jeremy Conn a 15yr. old
Detroit Youth, were at a friends house
on Sunday New Years Day 1995. When A
Detroit Police Officer shot in the doorway,
as they were on their way out. What was
their crime? Trying to leave a friends house!
Citizen Target <kma@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Friday, June 11, 1999 at 00:52:30 (MDT)
David: You didn't finish your statement. You said that you know how many people are feeling that these cops are beating up on citizens around the country? Well, how many???
"Teh Editor"
USA - Thursday, June 10, 1999 at 19:41:25 (MDT)
Hey, I know how many people are feeling that these cops are
beating up on citizens around the country. Put all bad cops
to jail along with the criminals that they sent in the first
place.
David Chan <lt124@juno.com>
New York, Ny USA - Thursday, June 10, 1999 at 16:08:20 (MDT)
Why don't you assholes just admit that the reason you hate the police is because you are jealous? You know damn well it is true. You are jealous because we can do things that you can only dream of doing. It is great. You know you sit home and dream about what it would be like if you were a cop. Admit it, boys......JEALOUSY!!!!!
I think I will go hit the town now. I'll just shove a gun in my waistband (no permit needed for me), drive as fast as I want (no ticket for me), go have a few drinks (no charge for me in the right bars), and cruise on back home (no chance of a DWI charge for me). I love it. Please don't hate me because you can't be me. Just bow to your jealous desires.
a
Denver, CO USA - Thursday, June 10, 1999 at 14:55:44 (MDT)
Exactly...
Disgusted
USA - Wednesday, June 09, 1999 at 13:38:36 (MDT)
Right, don't f**k with the police:
10-year-old Freddie Vela: Shot to death
crime ... bicycling near a drunk off duty cop
Right, don't f**k with the police, don't bicycle anywhere near them, don't live near them, don't ever need one, don't ever call one. Don't f**k with the police, they ARE the criminals.
Friday night July 22, 1994, an off duty
Detroit Police Officer Glenn Price, Shot
and killed 10yr. old Freddie Vela a
Detroit Youth while he was riding his
bike down the street. That night the
cop left the bar on the corner of
Bryson and Woodward and drove very
recklessly at high speed into a telephone
pole one block east of the bar. Freddie
was on his bike in the area where the
drunk crashed his truck. A homeless man
came up offering help in shutting off
the truck's alarm, the cop pulled a gun
on him! The cop told the man to get away
from the truck and shot right next to the
man's head, causing him to lose his hearing
for the day. Young Freddie was hit by this
cop's bullet ... and died.
Citizen Target <kma@any.precinct>
n/a, PA USA - Wednesday, June 09, 1999 at 10:15:09 (MDT)
DEDICATED TO ALL THE ASSHOLES WHO THOUGHT THEY COULD FUCK WITH THE
POLICE AND GET AWAY WITH IT. WORD TO THE WISE........DON'T FUCK WITH
THE POLICE:
a
USA - Tuesday, June 08, 1999 at 13:44:47 (MDT)
I would hate to be you shortly, Steve. [Note: 3 more copies of this entry deleted. I'm
still waiting, "a." Did you get lost? Need some help?
--steve]
a
USA - Tuesday, June 08, 1999 at 13:29:50 (MDT)
Steve: I really can't understand how you can just delete my entries
and state that it was a bunch of shit that had nothing to do with the
police. [Because it didn't. This page is not here to
discuss the Columbine shootings (unless you're going to talk about the
police at the scene, which you didn't); if you want to do that, then go to
my "fuck Columbine" page. --steve] But then again, it is your
website. This site wasn't designed to send a message. It's sole purpose
is to incite the visitor into playing your game. You get a "hard-on"
stepping on people, and then you edit their entries so that they can't
even fight back. You love to piss people off. [Yes,
I love to piss people off. But this site does send a message, and the only
editing I do is to make my own comments. Any stupidities you might see
from the authors of the entries are purely their own. --steve]
I won't go into what is obviously deviant behavior on your part. You
can't piss me off. I'm sorry that I pissed you off so much that it
caused you to delete my entries. But then again, I'm playing your game.
I'm sure that this entry will be edited as well. [You
didn't piss me off at all. Post something relevant to the page and it will
stay. --steve] For the record, the entries that I made have quite a
bit to do with the police. Obviously, you didn't read the entries. I'll
repeat one of them for you to read. Perhaps you can see that it talks
about the causes of societal deviancy. It also talks about the culture
of death which has grown within our society. [Hmmm,
no mention of police there...and yes, I read all four of your entries. Not
one of them had anything to do with police. --steve] Take a minute
to really read the story. I didn't write it, it was written by a teenager
through young eyes. I dare you to leave the entry on the page. Who
knows, it might even generate a response or two. [Note: Columbine essay extolling the "virtues" of the 50s
(conveniently leaving out wars, sexual abuse in the home, discrimination,
lynching, etc. etc. etc.) deleted. --steve]
Can't we all just get along?"
USA - Monday, June 07, 1999 at 22:33:54 (MDT)
I may be willing to sponsor this web site. Lets talk about how I can
help. chris@baldeagle.com [Eh? I don't want
to be "sponsored." If you like the site, please spread the word,
link to it, etc. --steve]
Chris <chris@baldeagle.com>
USA - Sunday, June 06, 1999 at 20:39:34 (MDT)
Check out anti-Queensland police service page !
Jas <qldpolice@xoommail.com>
Brisbane, QL AUSTRALIA - Sunday, June 06, 1999 at 05:35:08 (MDT)
Your Cite is fuckin cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is the funniest shit I have
ever seen in my life. The pigs need to die and like NWA said "Fuck the
Police Fuck tha Police Fuck em,"
Joe Thomas <thomas_joe@hotmail.com/>
Seattle, WA USA - Sunday, June 06, 1999 at 01:33:25 (MDT)
Good post, Matt. Here is what I have found. You are an idiot. Thank
you, and goodnight.
l
USA - Saturday, June 05, 1999 at 21:26:59 (MDT)
I am what most people would call a hacker.
If you know the true definition of a hacker
you will understand me more.
After I saw this site, I did a simple test on
Police Officers. To test discrimination.
One day I wore a pair of very baggy pants, w/wallet chains
and a tee-shirt. I talked to one of my friends,
Matt <nocando@a.com>
GA USA - Saturday, June 05, 1999 at 20:09:02 (MDT)
Just exercising my first amendment rights. Isn't that what you call
it? [I don't call cutting and pasting
something over and over "first amendment rights." I call it
harassment. If you think you can take me out, you're welcome to
give it a try. You wouldn't be the first. Enjoy your AOL account
while you still have it, kiddo. --steve]
u
Denver, CO USA - Saturday, June 05, 1999 at 10:07:20 (MDT)
Steve, I can loan you a brick of .22LF, 1 .300Winmag, or my bread
knife. I highly recommend the bread knife.
Disgusted
USA - Saturday, June 05, 1999 at 01:54:26 (MDT)
I can hardly wait...
It is gonna suck to be you in a while.
Ha ha ha
I'm almost there, boy.
[This was part of a string of inane pasting by an
AOL loser. He's about to lose that account. AOL kid, bring it on if you
have the balls. I'll be more than happy to put a bullet in your ear.
--steve]
[Various shit having nothing to do with police was
cut from here. --steve]
... and the Maker said to him ... " ... quit repeating yourself,
moron, you sound like a Gloc plinking citizens ..."
Citizen Target <target@any.precinct.com>
anyofthem, USA - Friday, June 04, 1999 at 21:03:38 (MDT)
The Police Officer stood and faced his Maker, [more of the same from an AOL kid who just learned how to
cut and paste. Hundreds of times. You cops are geniuses. --steve]
I'm coming for you, little man. [I have a sharp
blade with your name on it. --steve]
Denver, CO USA - Friday, June 04, 1999 at 13:35:15 (MDT)
The police of the Netherlands should work in the States,
get some criminals (bad people, drugs, murder etc)
BUT THE FUCKING COPS OVER HERE CAN ONLY GIVE PENALTY'S
FOR BULLSHIT..............................I GOT
FL180,- (ABOUT US $$$ 90,- FOR DRIVING TO MUCH ON THE
LEFT WAY from a two stroke/one direction road,
because the police only wanted to drive harder, because
he's allowed, while he hasn't in a hurry for sometime
just bullying young drivers...............
BYE, KUT POLITIE ( POLICE HERE IN HOLLAND ARE WIENERS,
An AMERICAN COP would fall asleep if he worked over here !
Kniteforce <kniteforce@hotmail.com>
ZOETERMEER, THE NETHERLANDS - Saturday, May 29, 1999 at 22:28:48 (MDT)
FUCK THE POLICE.............
THE POLICE IN THE NETHERLANDS, ZOETERMEER CAN ONLY GIVE
PENALTIES FOR DRIVING ON YOUR BIKE WITHOUT LIGHTS ( WHICH
ARE BROKEN ) AND THEY HATE YOUNG PEOPLE, AND THEY
ALWAYS DRIVE HARD............. POLITIE ZOETERMEER VERVLOEKT
HOPE The BICYCLE POLICE COP FROM ZOETERMEER WILL FALL DOWN
TERING POLITIE, krijg de graf tering........
PS : Where can i download that song from ICE-T / COPKILLER
Kniteforce <kniteforce@hotmail.com>
ZOETERMEER, THE NETHERLANDS - Saturday, May 29, 1999 at 22:20:23 (MDT)
I HATE SOME MOTERCOPS FROM ZOETERMEER, THE NETHERLANDS......
I COULD SHOULD PUT A CAP IN HIS HEAD IF I WAS BAD !!!!!
Kniteforce <kniteforce@hotmail.com>
ZOETERMEER, THE NETHERLANDS - Saturday, May 29, 1999 at 22:14:41 (MDT)
Be sure to watch the NYC Memorial Day Parade. The
NY Police Department Marching Band will be firing randomly into
the crowd every 5 blocks. Each volley is expected to be
approximately 47 rounds per officer. Stay tuned next year
when the crowd fires back.
Citizen Target <nfw@kma.com>
n/a, PA USA - Saturday, May 29, 1999 at 10:14:59 (MDT)
[It would be much shorter, considering how there is no such thing
as a "brave officer." All I've ever seen are worthless cowards hiding
behind a badge and gun. --steve]
Do you really believe that steve? [Of course I
really believe that. It's a fact. Whether or not there exist brave
officers has nothing to do with what I, personally, have observed.
--steve] I think you know there are many brave officers in this
world. Once again, yes, there are some bad ones, but the good far
outnumber the bad. I am a police officer steve. I know police
officers who have been killed in the line of duty and I can assure you
they are heroes. I watched a 4-5 year old little girl trace her
father's name on the wall of the Police Memorial in Washington, DC.
She turned to me and other officers watching and said "That's my
daddy's name." I wonder if you would feel the same way if you talked
to that police officer's family.
Bill <Wgan64@aol.com>
USA - Friday, May 28, 1999 at 18:36:45 (MDT)
I'm a 22 year old computer tech from Miami. The cops love to harass
me. Not because I look scruffy or because I'm hispanic (how can you be
prejudiced in Miami?), but because i have a lowered truck on rims and
I also have a club affiliation sticker on my truck. I don't know why
but it seems like my truck just calls out to cops to pull me over for
no reason. When I do get pulled over I try to be as curteous as
possible,(because if you get smart you get 15 tickets instead of 1)
even if the cop is a total dick. I agree with the disabled veteran
officer who wrote an entry, there are some good cops, but there are a
heck of lot more bad cops out there. They prey on young people such as
myself. I have been pulled over at least 50 times in 2 states. Some
times because I had a sticker on my truck and other beacuse i fit some
description. I'll admit I do have speeding tickets, but the bullshit
tickets far outnumber the real "breaking the law" tickets. Thankfully
I have never been in a situation where I was taken off to jail, but I
can't stand these cops that think you're some felon because you're
driving a tricked out vehicle or because you're young riding in said
tricked out vehicle. You try to act curteous, but they still come at
you with this "Terminator" complex. Like they just pulled over a
notorious terrorist. To those cops I say a big FUCK YOU. But to all
the officers who have pulled me over and have shown respect when
respect was given, Thanks.
Jav135™ <
Miami, FL USA - Thursday, May 27, 1999 at 17:31:59 (MDT)
FUCK DA POLICE
Greg <SlimShdy@hotmail.com>
houston, tx USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 21:34:27 (MDT)
you should make a list of all the brave officers killed by
worthless scumbags like you it would be alot longer than your
list [It would be much shorter,
considering how there is no such thing as a "brave officer."
All I've ever seen are worthless cowards hiding behind a badge
and gun. --steve]
batom
USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 18:20:45 (MDT)
In addition I would ask you to forgive my lack of paragraph spacing and indentation.
The guestbook makes it a little awkward trying to do this.
Cixelsyd <Cixelsyd@nandomail.com>
- Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 19:34:43 (MDT)
It took me a while to sort what I thought of the page as a whole. I
myself do not advocate the killing of cops at random, however after a
closer inspection of your site it seems that neither do you. The
sarcasm actually does seem to raise an issue of police abuse.
Cixelsyd <Cixelsyd@nandomail.com>
- Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 19:33:15 (MDT)
I think your web site is crap. You are putting a lable on all
officers, that is unfair. What if I were to say that your ideas are
typical of trailor trash and that you have no life than that of hate.
My best friends are officers and if they were to be killed by a person
like you, it would be like me killing your mother. Officers are just
people. Just like you (who probably works at McDonalds), these people
are doing their job (one that most of them are proud of). Yes, as I
read earlier, there are bad cops just like there are bad people(Just
like you, sir). But, that dosen't give you a right to bash them all.
[I don't bash them all. Perhaps you should learn
how to read. Yes, there are bad cops, but they have guns and the
ability to get away with murder, whereas normal "bad people" do not,
generally speaking. How many times am I going to have to repeat this to
you broken records? --steve]
C.B.
TN USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 14:35:49 (MDT)
I've noticed a long time ago, but feel the need to reiterate the
fact that most of these professional police officers that write in
always use professional language. [Yes.
Like the next guy. --steve]
Disgusted
USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 01:29:43 (MDT)
WHAT A FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT FAG THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO
DO, BUT PUT SHIT LIKE THIS OUT. YOU ARE ONE OF THE ONES THAT NEED TO
BE SHOT IN THE FUCKING HEAD. LOVE, THE POLICE [I do love the police. Especially incompetent
homophobic dipshits like you (smewch). --steve]
KING <donking156@aol.com>
USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 13:38:29 (MDT)
I dig your site Ace. I was wondering if I can reprint your list of
names/any other fun stuff you have. [Reprint
anything you like, as long as you give proper credit. --steve]
Yosairian Generic <Yosairian@hotmail.com>
San Jose, Ca USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 01:40:12 (MDT)
I just finished reading through most of the newer guestbook
entries, as well as some of the content of this web site. I have to
say that this whole thing leaves me feeling like I've just been kicked
in the gut. Just so you know a little about me, I'm only 33 years old
but I am a retired police officer. I had to take a medical retirement
because of a very serious on-duty injury I received, and extensive
reconstructive surgery. During my entire career, I never had one
single officer complaint against me (with the exception of a really
stupid one for a parking ticket). I treated everybody the same,whether
they were a suspect, victim, or witness--and that is with the respect
that they deserved. If a suspect did not go along with the program,
then he was treated accordingly per policy and law to take that person
into custody with the force that was necessary. When the scuffle was
over, it was over. That was it---no more. I've had big, hardcore
parolee's shake my hand and thank me when I turned them over to the
jail for booking. They knew that I respected them as a person, even
though I may not agree with their lifestyle or the fact that were
arrested on a violent felony charge or charges. In my department, we
took care of any officer that was badge heavy or started to get out of
hand---that person was NOT welcome to work in our city. We have what I
would consider an outstanding relationship with the citizens that we
serve. We have to---it's the only way the police can do the job.
Without the trust and support of the citizen's, our job is virtually
impossible. I'm proud to say I was a cop. I gave my life for it, and I
am now disabled as a result of one suspect that didn't even know me or
know anything about my life or background. He simply saw the blue
uniform and badge. And in case you are wondering what my view is on
bad cops, the answer is a very definite "yes"--of course there are bad
cops out there. Cops are people, and some people are bad---in every
occupation imaginable. But when a bad cop is discovered, there is a
process in dealing with that bad cop just as there is a process in
dealing with a bad citizen. That's why we have courts with a jury of
our peers. Advocating "street justice" to a bad cop is insane. What if
you're wrong? There are a hundred "what if's" to ask. It tears me
apart to read these statements from people with a blanket statement of
"Kill the pigs" of "Cut their throats while you have the chance". I
guess I should also point out that if somebody is advocating doing
that to a "bad cop", then you have just become one of them and have
stooped to their level. You have just crossed that line of right and
wrong and have bypassed the judicial process for dealing with the
situation. So does that now mean that the next "good cop" to come
along should now slash your throat? If I'm following your logic, then
the answer to that question is yes. Think about what I just said and
let it sink in---see if what I'm saying is true. I have only seen one
instance of a bad cop in my entire career, and within 2 minutes of the
incident I was in contact with the watch commander informing him of
what just happened. It was incident where another police department
came into my city chasing a vehicle. To make a long story short, it
was just me in my patrol car and the other officer from the other city
in his patrol car and we were both chasing one car with one suspect in
it. The suspect made a wrong turn and went down a dead-end street. He
crashed up onto the lawn, and through a side fence of a house and came
to a stop in the side yard of a residence. The other cop ran out of
his car and up to the suspect vehicle, pulled the suspect out, and
began beating the suspect with his baton. The suspect was not
resisting and no force was appropriate in this situation. I had to
grab the officer by the arm and shout at him to stop, which he finally
did. I did what I was supposed to do--I reported it. That incident
went through the proper process, as it should, and that officer was
fired. He was new and was still on his first year probation so firing
an officer during that first year is very easy. So the one time that I
witnessed it, I reported, and the officer was fired. That's how the
process was supposed to work. And if you're wondering what happened to
the suspect, yes, he collected a HUGE sum of money from that city and
all charges were dropped. I guess I'm writing such a long response on
this guestbook because I truly and honestly feel just as I described
at the beginning of this statement. Here I am, sitting at home with a
disability after serving my department and citizens with pride,
reading these things that are making my stomach turn. There will
always be a natural barrier of mis-understanding and anger between the
police and citizens--there simply is no way to escape that. Before I
was an officer, I had no idea that the job required so much thinking
and tactics just in everyday tasks. Cops do things for a reason, and
the public does not understand the reasons for certain things. That is
very understandable, but that is where the confusion and anger comes
from. If there is anybody reading this that really thinks a cop eats
doughnuts, is lazy, picks on people because of the color of their
skin, and all of the other stereotypes, I would like to suggest that
you sign up for a ride-along for one shift with an officer in the city
that you live. Of course, if you have warrants or a criminal
background (it will be checked), then you can not go. But the people
with a criminal background generally dislike the police anyway--why
would anybody like the person that puts them in jail? It's a very
natural reaction, and police are used to that. But what we are NOT
used to is people advocating, whether by joke or serious intent, the
murdering of a bad cop. Remember what I stated before---if I follow
the logic of others on here, then the person that murders the bad cop
is now just as bad as the bad cop, therefore, the next good cop that
comes along need to murder the guy that murdered the cop. That is
following this logic of course, and that is not my belief. I'm trying
to point out the insanity of such a statement. I HATE bad cops and I
would do ANYTHING to rip the badge off their shirt and give them
whatever punishment is appropriate. There is a right way to go about
these things. Thanks for listening. [Given
the state of most current police forces, it sounds like you
deserve a medal for not putting up with bad cops. I'll respond
to your other points when I have more time. Thanks for writing.
--steve]
Retired Officer
Bay Area, CA USA - Tuesday, May 18, 1999 at 23:53:00 (MDT)
Sergeant with Mass State Police. If you think you are such a
copkiller then send me email and we can meet and discuss same.
[No need. Just ask Dan where to find me, and then
show up. I might remind you that Colorado's "make my day" law is what
will justify me putting a bullet in your head. Make my day. :)
--steve]
John Condon <msp0789@capecod.net>
Falmouth, MA USA - Tuesday, May 18, 1999 at 19:43:51 (MDT)
Check this out. CLAYTON MILLER from New Waterford, Nova Scotia, Canada
Family STILL after 9 yrs. looking for justice.Local Police Murdered 17 year old son.
http://www.injusticebusters.com CLAYTON MILLER!!!!
SAD <mama_9@excite.com>
Cape Breton, N.S. CANADA - Saturday, May 15, 1999 at 18:12:12 (MDT)
USA, suck shit through a tube.
Tim
USA - Thursday, May 13, 1999 at 23:27:17 (MDT)
Hola, I am Kenny's wife, and this whole technology thing creeps me out. However, your site gives me reason to believe that there is some reason in the world.
Hannah
USA - Wednesday, May 12, 1999 at 23:26:20 (MDT)
cent$ the cgi is not werking right i thought i would mention that my website is at www.hektik.com
kenny <rhute@hektik.com>
slc, ut czechoslovakia - Wednesday, May 12, 1999 at 23:22:23 (MDT)
well i would like everyone here to take a look at how some of the local pigs treat people, Wes Scott
was stopped and shot by an off duty police officer. And he was having a bad day
...wah fucking wah! "I am a cop, i cant stand having little or no control in my life, so i am gonna be a cop. Ya that will be cool.... but when the job gets to me i am gonna
get all mad and drunk and let all that lil man anger follow me home
so i can beat my wife and kid, or maybe it will make me like that cop who shot Wes, where i let my family problems get to me at work , then maybe i will aim at some other innocent persons head and nearly kill him over a routine
traffic stop." but on a lighter note i think this pig has been in a world of well diserved shit. well
as i always say when you are on the back side of the world looking up at the dead fetis heads on the cold steel of the abortion tube and everything looks bleak go to my website, cuz then it may make cent$
kenny <rhute@hektik.com>
slc, ut czechoslovakia - Wednesday, May 12, 1999 at 23:20:09 (MDT)
Tom, sorry. That was for Tim. Steve correct my last entry please.
Disgusted
USA - Wednesday, May 12, 1999 at 20:07:47 (MDT)
Tom, I'm not completely depriving all villages of an idiot. Your village still has one.
Disgusted
USA - Wednesday, May 12, 1999 at 20:03:43 (MDT)
GMan, maybe Steve has a "Doctor" and good contacts on the inside, like DMV, IRS, Monica Lewinsky, etc. (Sorry Steve. It was a once in a life-time shot - had to take it). If you want to find someone these days, you gotta stalk them. (I'm not encouraging this behavior.) Legal ID's (drivers' license, SSN, Military ID) don't mean a whole lot anymore. There are good Doctors out there tese days.
Disgusted
USA - Wednesday, May 12, 1999 at 20:01:15 (MDT)
Tom, you would not think twice about putting a bullet between "one's" face and... what?
It's my opinion that cops or "wanna be" cops that have the "...won't think twice..." attitude have some kind of anger within which could (or not, any chance is SOME chance) lead to crooked cops.
Tim, what do you think? By the way, if I were to attack you, I would be smart enough to drop you with the first round. Sorry.
Disgusted
USA - Wednesday, May 12, 1999 at 19:50:07 (MDT)
To disgusted:
You're depriving a village somewhere of an idiot.Remember everybody: THIS WEEK (MAY 9-15) IS NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT WEEK. Let's get together and go to Colorado and have a party. Stevie can be the pinata.
Tim
USA - Tuesday, May 11, 1999 at 23:34:50 (MDT)
Let me see if I can sum up what's going on here.
Steve creates a web site, a page of which is devoted to protesting police brutality (an issue, by the way, that is very real and which should concern all law enforcement officers). He uses very black humor as part of his protest, but 1st Amendment rights are 1st Amendment rights, and he's right in the sense that police should not hide brutal officers but drag them screaming into the light of day. We can argue about whether or not his site will cause someone to stalk and kill an officer, but I suspect the site will not.
What happens? Police officers come here and some of them make absolute fools of themselves cyber-shouting threats and insults. Repeat after me: "opinion reinforcement". Others--not enough--make reasonable comments and observations.
And all this takes place on the internet in full view of the world. We are, and will remain, our own worst enemies.
Did I miss anything? Again, please don't bother correcting my grammar.
Rick <rgauth@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, May 11, 1999 at 23:27:02 (MDT)
hey man, I don't believe in police brutality on innocent people but if anyone attacks a cop they should be killed right on the spot. If I was a cop (which I plan on Being) and you attacked me I would not think twice about putting a bullet right between your face. Do not encourage killing of corrupt cops you will just result in more of your stupid little friends dead on the street.
tom <contacus@gte.net>
USA - Tuesday, May 11, 1999 at 14:44:29 (MDT)
I really encourge you guys to visit steve (the author of this
site) in person and debate any issues on this topic.
Remember you can also locate his family by calling 411 or his
last job at US West and tell them that there is a family emergency and
you are looking for Mr.Pordon. It is very easy. Also just go
down the list of all persons with the last name of "Pordon"
and ask for "steve/steven" just play it off and get the new address.
Also for people that have friends in the motor vehicle or postal
service can get his updated home address. Use of old phone
books can also help locate family members before confidentiality
is added. Remember I don't advocate any violence; Just get to
know steve and enjoy his intelligence. Postal service is very easy
to get infomation from. Be creative and enjoy.
His Information is: Stephen Alexander Pordon, Male, DOB:
3-26-72 in Arvada CO.
Gman <Gman@yahoo.com>
NY USA - Tuesday, May 11, 1999 at 03:16:47 (MDT)
Oh, another stupid kid who got to mommies computer! It's actually very amusing to see little stupid kids who will grow up to only be parolees and live for a few years on welfare...
before they are shot by some dope dealer for a corner. I'm
not even going to waste my time trying to explain. You would need
a brain to understand. Make sure to save enough money to buy your
crack!
LawMan <Code3@hotmail.com>
SF Bay Area, CA USA - Tuesday, May 11, 1999 at 02:31:57 (MDT)
Steve, I think we have ourselves a target. I have a Robar. What
about you? [I have two big old machetes and a
scalpel. Then there's the katana and wakizashi, but that
would be too quick. --steve] It won't hurt a bit. On the
otherhand. Maybe we can plink at him all day with a .22. That'll be more
fun.
Disgusted
USA - Monday, May 10, 1999 at 21:51:17 (MDT)
He must be one of your asshole buddies, huh? I'll bet you get
together and play "Hide The Vegetable" with him don't you?? [More colorful Freudian metaphors for homosexuality.
Spend much time in the closet, Tim? --steve] Oh and by
the way........ I get off to putting handcuffs on human excrement such
as yourself. It's why I took the job. [You took
the job so you could get a hardon cuffing people? OK, you sick little
monkey. --steve] One should enjoy their work, don't you think??
[Not so much that they stain their work slacks,
Tim. --steve] Why is it that you only reply to me??? [Looks like you're starting to crack. --steve]
DIPSHIT!! [Yep, you definitely are. Cool.
--steve]
Tim
USA - Monday, May 10, 1999 at 19:23:41 (MDT)
Poor Poor John Jop. A disgruntled employee who wants to mend his
over-inflated"para-god" attitude. What? They wouldn't let you play with
the siren or the little flashy lights on the meat wagon?? Is that why
you're so upset??? Awwwwwwwwwwww.... We are SOOOOOOOOOOO sorry for your
plight. NOT!!!! [You sound like you're on
the defense, Tim. Are you one of the incompetent dipshits he's
targeting? You know, I think you're one of those cops who has to
smack people around to feel good. You're certainly the most
prolific bitcher here. I think Tim here needs to be ambushed,
folks. What do you think? Preferably during "Peace Officer Week."
See you around, Tim. :) --steve]
Tim
USA - Monday, May 10, 1999 at 11:43:02 (MDT)
What about the criminals who prey on you everyday? I think they should be more of a target then cops.
K.L.S.
USA - Saturday, May 08, 1999 at 13:35:43 (MDT)
Greetings,
I am an ex-medic firefighter that took an oath to treat all patients equally. I worked for the Hampton, Virginia fire department for 8 years. After 2 years I loved the job and began to advance and became a medic. I was excited, but it was short lived when I discovered what my coworkers were doing. They were letting black patients die on purpose on 911 calls. They did this by delaying and withholding care. I objected immediately and soon became a target.
My good name was destroyed and no outside agency believed my cries for help as citizens were being systematically murdered. Most of the victims are poor and relied on 911 to get to the hospital. I continued to come under attack but managed to keep my cool and documented individual cases. I have called for investigations for years as my allegations will be easy to prove through documented reports. My cries have fallen on deaf ears. Now I am reaching out via the Internet still screaming for an investigation. My friend I invite you to view my web site and would love you to sign my guest book. Hampton firefighters are truly "Americas Cowards," preying on the sick and injured. If you know anyone that would be interested in helping me investigate this tragedy let me know. I need help as I have been threatened not to step foot on fire department property. Thank-You,
John Jop
http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/parliament/2049/
john jop <jjop159083@aol.com>
hampton, va USA - Friday, May 07, 1999 at 10:15:03 (MDT)
You will be wishing you had the police back when the military takes over this country after Y2K....
steve
ca USA - Wednesday, May 05, 1999 at 18:56:10 (MDT)
Very very informative and good webpage.. I'm impressed.. I'm also even more disgusted by cops now!
They've arrested me inn ENgland Twice for nothing! I'm suick of em all!
Venom <goth@chickmail.com>
Wetherby, England - Monday, May 03, 1999 at 10:28:58 (MDT)
Like many other dedicated, hard-working, fair people, I am a cop.
It is certainly disappointing that the hatred that you show to police
seems to be justified as long as revenge is made from the actions of
very few crooked cops. Be reminded also, that the media is never given
all access to crime scenes so certain stories may be exaggerated.
Another unfortunate thing is your proclaiming the theory of [Theory of what? Relativity? Gravitational
collapse? Would you mind coming back and finishing your
sentence? --steve]
a cop
milwaukee, wi USA - Sunday, May 02, 1999 at 15:10:34 (MDT)
you're next......;-) [OK. I'll take a
cheeseburger with fries and water. Step on it, pizza face.
--steve]
Hunter <hunter@scrotkiller.com>
Yourtown, IA USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 15:43:30 (MDT)
Interesting web site.. although it took me a while to get through
all of the guestbook comments. First of all, I'm a Cop... It strikes
me funny that others get so worked up over an extremest website that
'promotes killing cops'. If that were true, you could be one hell of a
leader. I disagree with advocating the killing of anyone, good or bad.
But I think your site is helpful in bringing the plight of brutality to
the forefront. There are incidents around the country in which good
people or innocent people are hurt of killed by BAD cops...good cops
are also killed by BAD people. Even one incident of brutality is one
to many. I applaud you for trying to stop these actions...not really
sure its done in the right manner ( killing the bad cops ), but I don't
think a web site such as yours could in any way contribute to a killing
of any cop, good or bad. Web sites don't kill...people do, and they
probably would have done so without this site....[You seem to be one of the very few people who
have clued in to the fact that I'm not really advocating
the death of cops, but merely trying to piss people off.
Congratulations. And congratulations also for having the brains
not to give a knee-jerk reaction to what I see as sick humor. :)
--steve]
Cal
Oakland, Ca USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 13:09:29 (MDT)
A "Theoretical Mathematician?" Sounds like a job for one who can't
make it in the real world. [Jealous?
--steve]
Teh "Editor"
USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 21:03:16 (MDT)
Steve, nice site...it's nice to know that there are still peole
out their that refuse to bow to unjust authority. A revolution in
this country is long over due and anyone whose studied Marx
knows that for a revolution to be successful it must be violent.
Fuck cops and the rest of the government!
Smiler <network67@thevortex.com>
Atlanta, GA USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 12:25:05 (MDT)
I really don't know all of the details to the school shooting. I do
know however that it did take the police an awful lot of time to get
into the school. Why? One reason is the pricks that were doing the
shooting set bombs all over the place. How can the police help if they
are dead. It was more as a hostage situation then anything at first.
Perhaps the police could have been more prepared for the incident. I
just went through about 5 hours of school violence. Perhaps the best
idea starts at preparing for the worst. Maybe the police should have
had a plan of the school. Talked to the janitor to learn easy and
fast ways into the house. Maybe the responding police departments did
do that and came across bombs. That is something to look into. I saw
an interview with one of the swat members. He said that he had
children of his own in the school. Police are always taught officer
safety is number one. You can help if you are dead. Just somethings
to think about. Stay tuned i'm sure there will be more.
noneya
USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 20:34:59 (MDT)
Guess you condonethe shootings at that high school, huh?. Your kind
of poisoning of the mind is what causes this shit. The already
"weak-minded"(go ahead and make a smartassed comment here..I know you
get off to that), are sent further into their insanities by this
dribble that you preach. nice going, Stevie boy. May you smoke a turd
in purgatory. [Flawed logic, Tim. I could just as
easily imply that this was caused by police brutality and profiling of
anyone who looked "different" than the norm that caused this, but I
won't, because that is fallacious thinking. Try again. As to the
shooting, my sympathy is with the families, and my disgust is with the
over 300 police and SWAT officers who were there with artillery and body
armor, yet hid outside and let kids die. --steve]
Tim
USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 21:52:50 (MDT)
As far as the way cops do their jobs, I understand the stresses
involved and how (as Blues put it) thankless. Just as a good example
for the kids, or even future cops, like Mr. Jose and his brother,
please try NOT to break the law while trying to uphold it. It doesn't
look good.
Disgusted
USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 21:32:27 (MDT)
"If you are going to make a stand for a better society, do it in a
constructive way, not destructive.", (Cpl Jerry Gaspard, Signed on: Tue
Feb 16 23:22:20 MST 1999. Take a good look how society has evolved?
Yes, I would like to live in Pleasantville someday, but I don't think
that'll ever happen because we have "evolved" into a society that gives
you a tighter wedgy everyday. In the beginning, there were a handful of
laws to abide to. Now, there are SO many that there is no possible way
for the average Joe to know, let alone abide to all the laws and
regulations. THIS IS NO LONGER A FREE COUNTRY, and has not been for a
long time. I think we need a new order. Have you seen Judge Dred? Too
extreme. Have you seen Demolition Man? Too tame, but I can deal with
it. New Order!
Disgusted
USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 21:27:56 (MDT)
Jose, You had me until you said nigga. They are people and I
believe the proper term is african american. Nothing else. You sound
like you talk alot but are you what you say you are? When you use
terms like nigga it makes me wonder.
noneya
USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 20:50:16 (MDT)
I don't much care for the web site content but I have to admit the
guestbook is entertaining. I especially liked the response to the brit
in the old guestbook. Oops, gotta finish my donut and go drive around
in circles...
E. Johnson <manta_ray7@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 08:03:49 (MDT)
HA, HA, HA!!
SOME OF YOU AMERICANS ARE REALLY STUPID!I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME OF THOSE"god bless the police" FUCKS WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT THE PIGS WHEN THEY SEE THEIR FRIENDS BEATEN TO DEATH, VIOLATION OF YOUR RIGHTS, OF YOUR MOMS AND DADS RIGHTS FOR NO FUCKIN CAUSE!! I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE THOSE THINGS IN U.S. BUT IN MY COUNTRY SO MANY THINGS ARE FUCKED UP AND WHEN "protect and serve"IDIOTS MAKES THINGS EVEN WORST, ALL I WANNA IS TO BE A BUTCHER TO THE BLUE PIG!!!
MARO
DUBROVNIK, CROATIA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 03:50:29 (MDT)
FUCK THE BLUE PIGS WITH A KNIFE!!
MARO
DUBROVNIK, CROATIA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 03:33:25 (MDT)
You have to tone it down. You're talking a little too loud. No one takes you seriously if every other word is a cuss word. At least I don't. Anyway, just to add something to your comment about the police being there for you. Something happens to you:get beat, raped, mugged, whatever. Chances are, you're just a statistic. I'd rather not be a tick mark on someone's stat sheet. I'm not against all law enforcement. To a degree, I believe it is necessary - but so far, I haven't had that - enlightening - experience that police officers have a tendency to give, and I don't think I will for a LONG time. Besides, firearm training and a nice piece chambered for .400 Corbon goes a long way. Bring on the trespassers, muggers, rapist, or even bad cops. I hope you run fast.
Disgusted
USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 01:59:44 (MDT)
YOU MUST BE ONE DUMB SON OF A BITCH!! POLICE OFFICERS PUT THERE
LIVES ON THE LINE TO PROTECT PEOPLE. WHY NOT BECAUSE OF THE MONEY AND
ETC. BUT BECAUSE THEYN TOOK AN OATH TO DO IT. YES I AGREE SOME COPS ARE
KILLERS,DICKS, THINK THEY HAVE THE POWER BECAUSE OF THERE BADGE, BUT I
DO SAY BUT WHAT ABOUT THE ONES THAT ARE COOL AS FUCK THAT GIVE YOU A
BREAK. THEY KNOW WERE THEY COME FROM THEY GIVE THAT MEXICAN, NIGGA OR
WHITE BOY A BREAK. THEY DON'T ARREST THEM JUST BECAUSE. SOME COPS CAN
GO TO HELL FOR THE SHIT THEY DO I AGREE IF THEY COMMIT COLD BLOOD (KILL
INNOCENT PEOPLE) TREAT THEM LIKE ANY OTHER PERSON. BUT WHY DO THE GOOD
COPS HAVE TO HAVE THAT RP ALSO JUST BECAUSE SOME ASSHOLE COPS SCREW IT
UP. THAT'S NOT RIGHT! HERE IN PHX, AZ WE HAVE HAD SOME COPS COMMIT COLD
BLOODED MURDER AND THEY SHOULD LOSE THERE JOBS AND STAND TRAIL. WE HAVE
ALSO HAD 2 COPS DIE RECENTLY ONE IN THE CITY OF PHOENIX THE OTHER IN
THE CITY OF CHANDLER. WHY DID THEY DIE THEY TRIED TO DO THERE JOBS (A
HONEST LIVING. THAT WAS NOT RIGHT FOR THEM TO DIE LIKE THAT THEY LEFT
THEY CHILDREN,WIFE, FRIENDS, FAMILY, AND POLICE DEPARTMENT ALL BECAUSE
OF SOME LOW LIFE SCUM. YOU DONT KNOW JACK SHIT YOUR JUST A CRAZY FOOL
OFF SOME STREET. ALSO COPS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CARRY TEC 9'S, SKS,
MACK 11, AK'S, M-16, OR WHATEVER THEY FEEL LIKE CARRYING TO DO THERE
JOBS AND NOT GET KILLED. SURE YOU HAVE ALL THESE STORIES OF ALL THESE
PEOPLE THAT HAVE DIED BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT THEY KILLED THE
WRONG THAT THEY DID IF THEY DID DO SOMETHING. (SHOW THAT ON HERE) SHOW
THE HUNDREDS OF COPS THAT HAVE DIED ON YOUR
of each case ... with three (3) exceptions.
Tim
USA - Wednesday, March 31, 1999 at 11:26:05 (MST)
Steve, Only someone with comments such as yourself could ever exceed
to [sic] their intellectual level. Your level never will surpass a
bartender. The thought that you provoke such violence and hate towards
lawenforcement [sic] officers offends not only myself but my fellow
brother officers. My only hope for you is that you one day become one of
the statistics that you preach about. Just to let you know your thoughts
and ideas are flagged so that lawenforcement [sic] where ever [sic] you
might be is for warned [sic] about you. Don't ever come to my neck of the
woods, [sic] a matching set of braclets [sic] and free room and board is
the least for you to expect. Maybe only [sic] then your cell mate [sic]
bubba [sic] could teach you a lesson on real hate. [The "least" I can expect? I'll be sure to arm myself well
before I go down to your neck of the woods, seeing as how you just gave me
probable cause to believe that I should shoot you before you shoot me.
Thanks for writing. --steve]
mike-GCSO
mike
Quincy, FL USA - Wednesday, March 31, 1999 at 08:42:37 (MST)
Unfortunately, what you advocate in Illinois is illegal. Since your
webpage can be accessed from Illinois, I suggest you add a disclaimer.
Here is the statute that relates to use of force to resist arrest-
(720 ILCS 5/7-7)
Sec. 7-7. Private person's use of force in resisting arrest. A
person is not authorized to use force to resist an arrest which he knows
is being made either by a peace officer or by a private person summoned
and directed by a peace officer to make the arrest, even if he believes
that the arrest is unlawful and the arrest in fact is unlawful.
(Source: P.A. 86-1475.
[Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't federal rulings
supersede state law? --steve]
Dan E.
USA - Wednesday, March 31, 1999 at 07:48:05 (MST)
After reading through your page, I became overcome with a sense of
hatred for you. I intended to write a message to you damning you and
your site to hell, however I have chosen not to do that, that would be
sinking to your level. However I feel compelled to tell you that you are
wrong for this, totally wrong and out of order. If you feel this
strongly against police brutality, you should become a lawyer that
legally stands against police corruption. You have chosen to advocate
murder. Are you this boisterous when it involves the brutal killing of a
citizen by another citizen?? Do you argue for the death penalty or, in
your case, the murder of that individual?? I understand your concern and
right as a civilian to stand against police brutality, but do you study
the facts? Who are you to judge? Get your mind right sir. Do yourself a
favor, get off of your website soapbox, join the police force and walk a
mile in our shoes, then make your judgements. Do it the sensible way
anyway, this way is ridiculous, hateful, rebellious, and just plain
stupid.
RB <rbp782@aol.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 30, 1999 at 23:15:10 (MST)
How in the hell did you ever get the idea that the information came
from the crime computers??? You ASSUMED that it came from there. If you
think that the only way to get that kind of information is through FBI
computers, you really are as fucked up as you look. [Have you seen a picture of "3rd party observer," or are
you psychic? --steve] How do you plan on proving this??? Get them
to check EVERY police dept. inquiry?? What a retard. But then again, it
must have been all correct, or else you wouldn't be pissing and moaning
so much. [You seem to have confused me with someone
else, Tim. Not surprising, given that you appear to be wandering around in
a state of perpetual confusion anyway. The information Dan illegally
obtained was correct at one point, and I have no doubt that he
could get the correct info by abusing his authority just a bit more, which
is why I'm "pissing and moaning" about his invasion of privacy.
--steve] Love the "3rd Party Observer" stuff, that's great that
another one of your asylum friends posted that for you, almost couldn't
tell. By the way, I see that you have run out of smart assed comments.
How sad. [It's called "having a life." Perhaps you
should try it sometime. --steve]
Tim
USA - Tuesday, March 30, 1999 at 19:34:44 (MST)
Dan, are you crazy? What you did is highly illegal! When you ran his
criminal history you accessed the III (Interstate Identification Index)!
The FBI and your state keep that in a history file for 6 months. If this
dude files a complaint and they run an offline search, you're toast.
Sorry, but that was fucked up. And Tim, I don't think the FBI overlooks
abuses of the NLETS system. And Steve, sorry, but your page is very
uncool.
3rd Party Observer
USA - Tuesday, March 30, 1999 at 18:59:05 (MST)
You are a major loser.
Billy
USA - Tuesday, March 30, 1999 at 18:57:46 (MST)
This from someone who's [sic] idea of a career move is , [sic] "Will
that be paper or plastic, ma'am"? [sic] Your intelligence exceeds your
capacity. Please do not try to quote laws to someone when you have no
idea what it is that you are talking about. It's embarassing to those of
us who do. [I can only assume that you're
trying to discourage me from filing a complaint against Dan by
claiming that what he did was legal, because not even you can be
so stupid as to believe that his abuse of power--and subsequent
attempt to intimidate me with it--was in any sense legal or
ethical. Please stop embarrassing yourself by trying to act smart
while saying things like, "Your intelligence exceeds your capacity" and
thinking it's an insult. --steve]
Tim
USA - Tuesday, March 30, 1999 at 00:41:51 (MST)
What crossed state lines??? The info he sent over the internet???
That means that it's ok as long as I don't let someone in BFE know??? By
the way, scrotum sucker, I have a degree and over 800 hours of training
in criminal law. How much do you have? That's what I thought. None.
Oh, and I'm SURE that the FBI will be sensitive to your whining. Don't
bet on it, they probably already have an extensive file on YOU.
[You'd better take that degree to the
"school" that issued it and demand every cent back from them. They
obviously haven't taught you a thing. --steve]
Tim
USA - Monday, March 29, 1999 at 17:10:13 (MST)
Whoa!! Now that's a threat that I AM SURE someone will pay attention
to. Do you know how many whiny, insignificant, bull-shit [sic]
complaints(i.e., yours) that a dept. deals with. [sic] I am sure you
would like to have some kind of pretended power over an officer's job, but
the fact of the matter is that NO ONE CARES about your snivelling little
complaint. Try to come up with a better threat that [sic] that, it really
is a "dead horse" (sound familiar??) [sic] and you have been really
beating the hell out of it lately. [As any moron
(other than Tim, that is) can see, I brought it up only once. Tim, for an
alleged cop, you sure don't seem to know jack shit about the law. I'm
contacting the FBI about Dan's illegal abuse of authority,
as it undoubtedly crossed state lines. Whether "NO ONE CARES," as
you so eloquently put it, remains to be seen. I'll let you know
what happens to Danny boy, though. Watch what happens when a pig abuses
his power. --steve]
Tim
USA - Monday, March 29, 1999 at 11:15:25 (MST)
Unlisted??? [sic] You??? [sic] Now I AM disappointed. Yet you want
everyone else to give you their email address. Is that so you can do an
address search by email and post everyone's physical address?? [sic] [Keep trying, detective. What your pal Dan did was illegal.
Hope he isn't too attached to his job. --steve]
Tim
USA - Sunday, March 28, 1999 at 21:02:55 (MST)
Oh, by the way, IT DIDNT [sic] WORK!! [sic] [When I decide to ban your subnet, you'll be the
first to know. If you can still post here, that means you're
still amusing enough for me to let you. --steve]
Tim
R.
USA - Sunday, March 28, 1999 at 17:05:42 (MST)
Hey puke, that information is something you can get out of any phone
directory. Thanks for barring my emails, love it. [I'm unlisted. Didn't take that into account when you
tried to look smart, did you, detective? And what emails? Do you know
the difference between email and a guestbook posting?
--steve]
Tim R.
USA - Sunday, March 28, 1999 at 17:04:41 (MST)
Ok, so it's also for stopping power.....had to think about what I had posted for a minute. Yes, if I shoot a suspect, I want stopping power and that IS part of what goes through my mind when I buy ammo. But, departments that require hollow points have that requirement due to my post immediately below.
TC
USA - Sunday, March 28, 1999 at 08:21:09 (MST)
Oh, Steve, I just read your statement about NYPD going to hollowpoint rounds. Police carry hollowpoints not for the stopping power, but for the expansion of the round. The expansion of the round increases the chance that the round will stay in the body of the suspect. If ball ammo is used, it tends to carry more velocity and fails to expand. This causes the round to pass through the suspect and you lose control over where the round is going. In a deadly use of force issue, you want the suspect to take the round.....not the innocent civilians behind that suspect. I hope this helps clear it up for you.
TC
USA - Sunday, March 28, 1999 at 08:18:28 (MST)
David,
Stevie's information is as follows:
Stephen Alexander Pordon 3-26-72 8300 N. Sheridan Blvd #28C, Arvada, CO.
He has no known criminal history or traffic record, so I'm not sure why
he's so pissed off at the cops. He works for US West as a clerical
assistant. [That's old info, Dan. I've had another
residence and job for almost a year now. But thanks for showing everyone
that you're willing to use your position as a cop to illegally obtain
information. --steve]
Stevie,
I was beginning to think that there might just be something there, until
I read your comments to my last message. It's not the dirty cops that
you are pissed off at as is stated on your page, you're just pissed at
society. Suicide is the only out. [You're obviously
one of the dirty ones, Dan. Better line up a good lawyer fast.
--steve]
Dan
Dan
USA - Sunday, March 28, 1999 at 07:59:24 (MST)
I can appreciate you using your freedom of speech. However, I do believe that you are sending across a dangerous message. By advocating the murder the bad police officers you could possibly be putting people in danger. If someone encounters an overly aggressive officer, their best recourse is complete submission, then seek legal recourse after the situation is defused. I am a police officer in the southwest. In my department we do not have a "secret code" that you talk about, so I do not know that it even exists. We take care of each other and we always have each other's back, but no one would break the law or perjure themselves for another officer. It's not worth risking your job or jail time for some stupid mistake another officer may have made. I will not argue that in the law enforcement community we do not have a few bad seeds. In any profession there will be bad seeds. But, you also have to keep in mind that the law enforcement community is rather large and the negative stories grab the headlines much more frequently than the positive ones. I have been in law enforcement for 12 years now and have not had a single external or internal complaint, whether unfounded or sustained, and the only time I've been in the headlines is when I saved a bunch of pets from a burning apartment complex. Big deal. Now, if I had shot an unarmed suspect in the back of the head I would have been in every paper in the country. Nobody wants to care about the good and positive things we do each day. It's a disappointment, but I'm not in this job for glory. I'm in this job to help people and to feed my wife and two children. Let me step off my soap box and get more towards my point. I think you would reach a much more receptive audience if you would advocate legal recourse against abusive officers rather than the murder of these people. You make a martyr our of a murdered police officer......you make a statement with a law breaking officer sentenced to prison. Thanks for you time :)
TC <tc@thirdgen.org>
Dallas, TX USA - Sunday, March 28, 1999 at 07:52:03 (MST)
I am just curious, with all your shit talking, why dont YOU put your
home address here. [sic] [You give me yours
and I'll give you mine. --steve]
david
NC USA - Saturday, March 27, 1999 at 22:34:45 (MST)
This is my second entry here. I still find this to be a crock of
shit! I was a police officer shot in the back in an ambush by some punk,
and you and your kind probably support that kind of shit. When your ass
is being shot at who the hell do you call. [sic] THE SAME PEOPLE YOU
BITCH AT! I SAY "FUCK YOU"! [sic] IF YOU DON'T WANT OUR HELP, DON'T CALL
US AND TELL YOUR FUCKED UP FRIENDS NOT TO CALL US!! [sic] [Don't worry. --steve]
david
NC USA - Saturday, March 27, 1999 at 22:27:50 (MST)
Nice page. Why do I get the feeling a lot of police officers sign in to 'not believe' the reports in the Data Base ? Gee, I must be getting paranoid. Thanks for the list of citizens slain by police. The 'Stress Cop' informed me that police, killing innocent citizens, is an exaggeration. I visited my fathers' grave, and told my father, 'you're an exaggeration'. Somehow, I don't think my father was amused.
Burt Hill <hhheagle@programmer.net>
n/a, PA USA - Saturday, March 27, 1999 at 14:39:01 (MST)
P.S. - I'd be careful what I wished for if I were you. I prefer the
"they never know when it will hit them" approach myself. [Is that your new excuse for wimping out on sending me that
malicious email you promised? --steve]
TIM [Oh look, all caps. Poor timmy's getting all upset
again. --steve]
USA - Saturday, March 27, 1999 at 13:47:10 (MST)
Hey there's a new inbreeding piece of shit called steve, maybe
you've heard of HIM?? [sic] [I see you're having
trouble finding the Melissa virus code. You can find it at www.root.org.
--steve]
Tim
USA - Saturday, March 27, 1999 at 13:45:29 (MST)
You truly are a shit sucking scavenger who dwells on the ocean
bottom. [I'm still waiting for that mail, Tim. Hey,
there's a new macro virus email attachment called "Melissa." Maybe you
could send that to me, if you don't have any ideas of your own. Happy to
help. --steve]
Tim
USA - Saturday, March 27, 1999 at 02:25:50 (MST)
THE TRUTH ABOUT COPS
As you read the following excerpt from an unknown author keep in mind the
following statistics. [sic]
* We have roughly 700,000 Police officers in the U.S. who create a fine
blue line between peace and chaos for hundreds of millions of U.S.
citizens.
* 200 of these officers are killed in the line of duty each year, a
number that is rising.
* Another 250 officers were shot but saved by ballistic (bullet proof)
vests. [Note: this means you'll want to go for head
shots if possible, people. --steve]
* 200,000 police officers are criminally assaulted each year.
* 15,000 of these officers require hospitalization each year.
* 300 police officers commit suicide each year as a direct result of the job.
A POLICEMAN IS....
A policeman is a composite of what all men are, a mingling of saint and
sinner, dust and deity. Cold statistics wave the fan over the stinkers,
underscoring instances of dishonesty and brutality because they are news.
What they REALLY mean is cops are exceptional, unusual - not commonplace.
Buried under the froth is the fact that less than one half of one percent
of policemen disgrace the uniform. That's a better average than among clergymen.
He is of all men, one of the most needed, yet most unwanted. A strangely
nameless creature who is "sir" to his face, and "pig" to his back.
In an instant he must make decisions which require months for a lawyer.
If he hurries, he is careless, deliberate, lazy. He must be first to an
accident, infallible with diagnoses. He must be able to restart
breathing, stop bleeding, tie splints and above all be sure the victim
goes home without a limp, or expect to be sued.
The police officer must know every gun, draw on the run and shoot where
it doesn't hurt. He must be able to whip two men twice his size and half
his age without damaging his uniform, or being brutal.
If he gets hit he's a coward, if he hits you he's a bully, friendly he's
a flirt, if not he's a grouch.
A policeman must know everything and not tell. He must know where sin is
yet not partake. A policeman is a minister... social worker...
diplomat...tough guy... and a shoulder to cry on. The acting father of a
society that offers little support to him in return.
The policeman must from a single human hair, describe the crime, the
weapon, and the criminal, and tell you where he is hiding. If he catches
the crook he got lucky, if not a dunce. If he gets promoted he has
political clout, if not a dullard.
He runs files and writes reports until his eyes ache to build a case
against a dangerous felon, who will get dealed out by a shameless lawyer,
or an honorable judge who isn't.
He also is a genius, for he somehow feeds a family on a cops [sic] salary.
A token reminder of societies [sic] shameful unwillingness to pay him half
of what he's worth.
Dan
USA - Thursday, March 25, 1999 at 22:54:16 (MST)
SHIT [Upset about something, jelly boy?
--steve]
Tim
USA - Thursday, March 25, 1999 at 11:13:04 (MST)
EAT
Tim
USA - Thursday, March 25, 1999 at 11:12:45 (MST)
After reading your home pages and seeing the rambling, [sic] you write.
They [sic] convince me you really do not know anything about what you
write. [This is really ironic given the obvious fact that
you didn't read my page before submitting this entry to the guestbook.
--steve] Without the police who do you think would protect your
rights? [If you had taken a few seconds to read part
of the page, you might have realized that I'm targeting the cops who
threaten my rights. --steve] While it is true, [sic]
some police officers do abuse the power that they are given. [sic] Not
all police officers are bad or abusive. It seems to me that you have had a
hard time in your life and have had bad experiences with police officers.
What is the reason you dislike police officers? [Read
the page and learn something new. --steve] I sit [sic] because
they arrested you for something you did wrong or against the law? More
than likely, or you would have had very little contact with the police.
The laws were meant to protect the citizens and are not to be broken,
[sic] by anyone [sic] and this goes for the police officers too. If you
do not like the way police officers enforce the laws, maybe you should
move to a country that has no laws. There you can run free and do anything
you want to do and not have to worry about being subject to what you call
police brutally or the laws that are meant to protect you. [The "love it or leave it" argument. I'd rather change
things than run away. --steve] What I really think is you should
think about professional therapy to allow you to understand the difference
between right and wrong. You need to understand what laws were created to
do, to live in a civilized society. [Which is
why I created this page. Try reading it. --steve]
The Police <none>
Tx USA - Wednesday, March 24, 1999 at 16:58:49 (MST)
Do you know anything about the reward for killing a kop, legally???
;-) [The satisfaction of a job well done is
reward enough for me. Incidentally, ask your instructors which classes
you should take to do well once you graduate, not merely the ones the
advising department (notoriously bad at Metro) and coursebook require
you to take. --steve]
J. Smith <smithjoe@mscd.edu>
USA - Wednesday, March 24, 1999 at 15:08:41 (MST)
Ohhhhhhh. now I am just shitting my pants at the mention of your
intelligence. Gonna do that with SPEEDGUN, too? SPEEDGUN, brother man,
good one, I laughed my ass off. Good to know that I'm not the only one
who would like to use Stevie for moving target practice with the old
.357. Revolvers are much more accurate, don't you think, SPEED??
As for you, Stevie, I love the way you threaten to do something. Tip:
If you say it, DO IT. If you don't, then it makes you even more of a
spineless jel